kdubya Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) This has been a fair assessment when you examine all "religion based" conflicts in history. You have to split the followers of any religion as "radical and moderate" , that is only fair. To assume all followers of any religion are all radical, is just ridiculous. So why do the moderates not stop it then? er that will be because of fear and oppression so then you can blame the religion as regardless of whether its only a minority that are radical the root cause is the religion of the minority, perhaps this was OK in the middle ages, but when we have 21st century weapons and finance being used to back the minorities aims along with the threat of biological and nuclear attacks it really is time we faced the truth of what really is happening, before - if it is not already to late. KW Edited January 8, 2015 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Why does a particular religion produce so many "one off" fanatics? All of ISIS, Woolwich, 9/11, 7/7, now Paris. That's a lot of "isolated" cases. Perhaps there's something fundamentally wrong here, or perhaps the moderates need to take responsibility for the (numerous) "isolated" cases. And before the apologists fire up the excuse bus, this latest attack was about some cartoons. How some cartoons can ever be described as "pulling the tiger's tail" is quite beyond me. It's a picture, or some words, so get a sense of proportion. Edited January 8, 2015 by Flashman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 +1 don't pull a tigers tail your right we should be pulling its teeth and claws. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Brietbart is a bit too alarmist and right wing for my liking. For a more reasoned view: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/opinion/nicholas-kristof-lessons-from-the-charlie-hebdo-shooting-in-paris.html Call it what you like , the article is very accurately describing the reaction by the west, including media like the guardian/ny times very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why does a particular religion produce so many "one off" fanatics? All of ISIS, Woolwich, 9/11, 7/7, now Paris. . Yes, why does a religion produce so many fanatics? Warren point, Guildford, Birmingham, Warrington, enniskillen and omargh. Any religion can produce mass murderers. During the troubles in Ulster I went to watch the toon play QPR several bars were collecting for republican causes, where we're our moderates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 your right we should be pulling its teeth and claws. KW Ouch! I wasn't aware you were into sadism... Each to their own i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 So why do the moderates not stop it then? er that will be because of fear and oppression so then you can blame the religion as regardless of whether its only a minority that are radical the root cause is the religion of the minority, perhaps this was OK in the middle ages, but when we have 21st century weapons and finance being used to back the minorities aims along with the threat of biological and nuclear attacks it really is time we faced the truth of what really is happening, before - if it is not already to late. KW How can moderate members of any religion or nationality, stop the extreme activities of the minority ? Apart from the rule of law and order by the authorities, including the armed forces. These people are criminals, nothing more and nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 How can moderate members of any religion or nationality, stop the extreme activities of the minority ? Apart from the rule of law and order by the authorities, including the armed forces. These people are criminals, nothing more and nothing less. Exactly, I am not in any shape or form into religion although I respect those who are. Now lets still assume I am a so called moderate, what is it precisely that some think I can do here ? It seems some just like to make assumptions based on nothing more than flawed, prejudiced knowledge. Like it or not the more you interfere in, bomb, try to help, invade, demonise blah blah, the more some will be radicalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 How can moderate members of any religion or nationality, stop the extreme activities of the minority ? Apart from the rule of law and order by the authorities, including the armed forces. These people are criminals, nothing more and nothing less. All they have to do is take a stand and report it, they know who they are, they also know who is radicalising them be it via faith schools mosques etc, to pretend the moderates dont know what is happening is naive to say the very least. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 All they have to do is take a stand and report it, they know who they are, they also know who is radicalising them be it via faith schools mosques etc, to pretend the moderates dont know what is happening is naive to say the very least. KW Err, I just told you who is radicalising them, not saying some faith schools aren't guilty but to assume people know someone is about to turn to guns is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 All they have to do is take a stand and report it, they know who they are, they also know who is radicalising them be it via faith schools mosques etc, to pretend the moderates dont know what is happening is naive to say the very least. KW I believe the moderates do know what is happening, to the same extent as we all do. However, I don't know which Christians are committing crimes in my area, or nationally, but I do know that some are. If I knew who they were, I would report them to the authorities. I believe that most of the population of the UK is in the same situation, regardless of their race, colour or creed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I believe the moderates do know what is happening, to the same extent as we all do. However, I don't know which Christians are committing crimes in my area, or nationally, but I do know that some are. If I knew who they were, I would report them to the authorities. I believe that most of the population of the UK is in the same situation, regardless of their race, colour or creed. Are any of these Christians shooting people and planting IEDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 All they have to do is take a stand and report it, they know who they are, they also know who is radicalising them be it via faith schools mosques etc, to pretend the moderates dont know what is happening is naive to say the very least. KW I think this to be the simple truth. England is currently considered Christian although agnostic is probably a better description. What I believe is more important is where a group is a minority which identifies itself as such - we hear of ex-pat communities, the Jewish community this also applies to Muslims. They use not profit making 'banks', as Islam does not support making money from others in the 'normal' way as we see it. They are a closed community and within this they can look after their own, as does any other community. They are thus better placed to know what is going on in their community than people in society as a whole.- christian or otherwise. Jewish communities started banking before the birth of Christ and have their own code of behaviour which is never at odds with the countries which host the Jewish communities. They have, over millenia, given massively to their hosts, even under often the harshest of treatment. A people I am happy to call British but also to remain Jewish as they wish. K is right and we all feel it to some degree even if we feel we cannot speak its name. Muslims need to legitimise their moderate religeon by confirming a war on the extremists in their ranks - maybe a Muslim hotline like a firearms hotline before I am accused of racism. I also feel we need to amend the HR Act and rid ourselves of Islamic teaching, we used to go to Sunday School. I would rather people live here because they live and support our values, like the Jewish, not insist we adopt their ways e.g.Sharia law. Love us and live with us as we are, or move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Are any of these Christians shooting people and planting IEDs? Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic. Of course, Catholics will deny this even though he was raised Catholic. Granted he did not purport to have done his terror crime in the name of God, or Jesus, or the Pope, but surely some Catholics out there must have known what he was up to and just kept quiet. Edited January 8, 2015 by aris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 moderate, the clue is in the name, moderates are mostly interested in an their own life, same as most of us, serious financial reward for information is probably the way forward, then seriously unpleasant imprisonment for the suspects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think this to be the simple truth. England is currently considered Christian although agnostic is probably a better description. What I believe is more important is where a group is a minority which identifies itself as such - we hear of ex-pat communities, the Jewish community this also applies to Muslims. They use not profit making 'banks', as Islam does not support making money from others in the 'normal' way as we see it. They are a closed community and within this they can look after their own, as does any other community. They are thus better placed to know what is going on in their community than people in society as a whole.- christian or otherwise. Jewish communities started banking before the birth of Christ and have their own code of behaviour which is never at odds with the countries which host the Jewish communities. They have, over millenia, given massively to their hosts, even under often the harshest of treatment. A people I am happy to call British but also to remain Jewish as they wish. K is right and we all feel it to some degree even if we feel we cannot speak its name. Muslims need to legitimise their moderate religeon by confirming a war on the extremists in their ranks - maybe a Muslim hotline like a firearms hotline before I am accused of racism. I also feel we need to amend the HR Act and rid ourselves of Islamic teaching, we used to go to Sunday School. I would rather people live here because they live and support our values, like the Jewish, not insist we adopt their ways e.g.Sharia law. Love us and live with us as we are, or move. Sad thing is we now have the left coming out and saying that what is happening in France is due to France wanting a secular system in that they expect those who come to live there to become FRENCH and have FRENCH values and standards, instead of letting them express their own cultures and traditions and the French integrating with THEM barmy barmy barmy. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sad thing is we now have the left coming out and saying that what is happening in France is due to France wanting a secular system in that they expect those who come to live there to become FRENCH and have FRENCH values and standards, instead of letting them express their own cultures and traditions and the French integrating with THEM barmy barmy barmy. KW Agreed - but then they have signed their own exclusion orders - surely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Are any of these Christians shooting people and planting IEDs? I've said it before, Warren point, Guildford, Birmingham, Warrington, enniskillen and omagh. Christians planting IEDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sad thing is we now have the left coming out and saying that what is happening in France is due to France wanting a secular system in that they expect those who come to live there to become FRENCH and have FRENCH values and standards, instead of letting them express their own cultures and traditions and the French integrating with THEM barmy barmy barmy. KW when in France live like the French or go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Agreed - but then they have signed their own exclusion orders - surely ? well they have their own zones ever been to Marseille? KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yes, why does a religion produce so many fanatics? Warren point, Guildford, Birmingham, Warrington, enniskillen and omargh. Any religion can produce mass murderers. During the troubles in Ulster I went to watch the toon play QPR several bars were collecting for republican causes, where we're our moderates. True, but they didn't blow up some pubs because the didn't like Father Ted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 well they have their own zones ever been to Marseille? KW Nope but I have tried bouillabase !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Where is the much vaunted Sharia law when it comes to these extremists. It seems to be applied selectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) True, but they didn't blow up some pubs because the didn't like Father Ted. They just threatened to murder people that poked fun at the Catholic church. And at least one priest was in the IRA and participated in murders. Dave Allen It provoked outrage at the time, causing him to be banned from Irish television (he also received death threats from the IRA). How times change. Or do they? For while we can all laugh now at him poking fun at the Catholic Church, Edited January 8, 2015 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 They just threatened to murder people that poked fun at the Catholic church. And at least one priest was in the IRA and participated in murders. I don't disagree - one lot of nutters is very much like another. I'm just tired about hearing that's it a few bad apples - it's more than that. the last Catholic zealot army trashed their away across the Holy Land in the twelfth century - ISIS are doing it NOW. That's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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