Carman06 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just a thought but if you were to get an unannounced visit but for whatever reason you did not have your cabinet keys on you, maybe stored else where etc. what would be their view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just a thought but if you were to get an unannounced visit but for whatever reason you did not have your cabinet keys on you, maybe stored else where etc. what would be their view?you dont have to have your keys on your person . You can hide them where you want. Within reason . As long as YOU are the only one that knows there where abouts. And only YOU have access to the cabnet and its contents. You have met all legal requirements. So nothing they can say . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derfley Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 This would be my main concern. i.e.they have no specific reason for doing these checks, as they required to, apparently. This also reinforces original concerns that the police are just increasing checks for no additional security reasons, simply reinforcing their incorrect assumption that any weapons might fall into terrorist hands. Based on the potential intelligence, the risks of our group, this is a grossly inefficient use of police time. At the same time they complain of underfunding - 2 police to check someone about whom they have no specific change in circumstances from the shotgun cert grant. Lets hope BASC take this forward, otherwise we may all get 'unannounced', unjustified visits in the future. I have no problem with the actual visits but with the continued abuse of powers and the assumption that doing something will improve the service provided against terrorism. This been the the firearms chap from BASC that rang concern as well (I'm **** and missed his name). And one of the reasons I've sent a letter in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tignme Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Stevo - Post 35 Not a problem until they get nicked,most likely with damage to the vehicle.The insurance men would not go along with any claim for theft/damage,they would also want a Police Report number and I doubt if the police would look kindly on the issue,probably no law broken but a short entry of fact on your file would ensure you are closely scrutinized when renewal time comes around. Try this sceniario. Ive just bought 2000 cartridges at RFD and carrying in my van. had accident on route home ,police called , plod checks back of van. I dont need to even show cert as any one can carry shotgun shells. Plod other than query is not interested. nothing illegal done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbietherimmer Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 you dont have to have your keys on your person . You can hide them where you want. Within reason . As long as YOU are the only one that knows there where abouts. And only YOU have access to the cabnet and its contents. You have met all legal requirements. So nothing they can say . My FAO wanted to know where the keys were kept on his last renewal visit. He wrote this down in his notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super sharp shooter Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Not sure anyone but yourself should know where the keys are kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My FAO wanted to know where the keys were kept on his last renewal visit. He wrote this down in his notes.d did you tell him ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbietherimmer Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Not sure anyone but yourself should know where the keys are kept. That's what I always thought too; anyways Ive sinced moved them when we extended the house so back to me being the only one who knows where their hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Never a day goes by when you read of how a terrorist used a stolen 12ga to do a terrible incident AK47 yes 12ga no and sadly not any of us are now allowed an AK47. . AK and RPG are banned in France and UK, shotguns are permitted. And the evil terrorists ignored the law and went for the AK and rest...Uuups, they don't care about the law. Is the law effective in this aspect? Do security checks within reason, and check if legal firearms owners obey the law, but don't mix terrorism into this! (This is for whoever came up with this!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Don't intend to nit-pick but Ak47's arnt banned in UK as such. The semi-auto or full-auto of any calibre above .22lr is section 5 prohibited. You can have a straight pull AK47 in the UK. Edited January 20, 2015 by Carman06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Don't intend to nit-pick but Ak47's arnt banned in UK as such. The semi-auto or full-auto of any calibre above .22lr is section 5 prohibited. You can have a straight pull AK47 in the UK. Ok. Prohibited, section 5. Was talking about semi-auto, used by those idiots in Paris. Edited January 20, 2015 by londonercsecse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah thought that's what you meant. Just wanted to clarify it for anyone who didn't know then panics when someone rocks up to the range with an AK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah thought that's what you meant. Just wanted to clarify it for anyone who didn't know then panics when someone rocks up to the range with an AK Can't find a thumbs up icon, imagine one here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Try this sceniario. Ive just bought 2000 cartridges at RFD and carrying in my van. had accident on route home ,police called , plod checks back of van. I dont need to even show cert as any one can carry shotgun shells. Plod other than query is not interested. nothing illegal done. You have the defence of returning from the RFD then. Just like if you'd just bought a massive knife that would be illegal to have with you without reasonable excuse, the reasonable excuse was you were transporting it from where you'd just bought it. Your example also requires the officer in question to know the legislation regarding firearms/ammunition If you don't think you'd be questioned about any kind of ammo on your person following getting pulled you may be in for a shock Leaving shotgun cartridges in a vehicle over night/unattended during the day (in a residential estate/town/city location), unless in a locked garage etc may not be illegal, but its not a very good idea (IMO) and if your FLD got wind of it i'd expect them to question you about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Am I missing something here. 1.The police come to your door and you know every thing is locked away "yes no problem come in" 2,The police come to your door and you think oh balls I've left the gun cabinet open "sorry lads can you come back later it's not convenient " ( not that any members on here would ever leave the cabinet open if the doorbell rang) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 It was recommended I kept them in a dry cool kitcken cubard with a child lock on the door to keep out the master chriminals (kids) I disagreed with him stating have you ever seem Mrs a cook ? I will store them under the bed no chance of disturbing them there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Am I missing something here. 1.The police come to your door and you know every thing is locked away "yes no problem come in" 2,The police come to your door and you think oh balls I've left the gun cabinet open "sorry lads can you come back later it's not convenient " ( not that any members on here would ever leave the cabinet open if the doorbell rang) Exactly. Its a pointless exercise. As soon as the police realised that people understood their rights (and shooting organisations informed the police as such) i.e. they don't have to open the door for police without a warrant if they don't want to, they backed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ok. Prohibited, section 5. Was talking about semi-auto, used by those idiots in Paris. The idiots in Paris had full-auto weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo57 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just a wee word of warning guys. In this thread a lot of you have described practices which you correctly identify as not being unlawful or illegal. However, do remember that the grant/renewal of SGC can be refused if there is any suggestion that the applicant has acted irresponsibly. Lots of things that are not illegal might nevertheless be considered to be irresponsible. If the police took such a view about anything you have done, you might then find it awkward or expensive to contest it in Court (and if an official at BASC considered it to be irresponsible, you wouldn't expect BASC to help you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think, more than anything, the concern is that, according to the HO guidance, the police are supposed to give you the reason why they are carrying out the visit. Some forces appear to be remembering all their rights, but conveniently forgetting their responsibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If the Police turned up on a surprise visit, it would depend on who it was. The Greater Manchester Firearms lad, is a fellow shooter and decent bloke. I would let him in without hesitation. If an unknown Policeman turned up, I would refuse entry until I had phoned GMP to check if he was legitimate. Forget the car, the uniform or Police ID. I have seen more forged passports and ID cards than you can point a stick at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just a wee word of warning guys. In this thread a lot of you have described practices which you correctly identify as not being unlawful or illegal. However, do remember that the grant/renewal of SGC can be refused if there is any suggestion that the applicant has acted irresponsibly. Lots of things that are not illegal might nevertheless be considered to be irresponsible. If the police took such a view about anything you have done, you might then find it awkward or expensive to contest it in Court (and if an official at BASC considered it to be irresponsible, you wouldn't expect BASC to help you). Is this perhaps why we are expected to take more **** than your average person would. Rights and privileges again. Define irresponsibly in the context of storing shotgun ammo? Is it irresponsible if the ammo is always kept in a locked house where to remove it would require the commission of a crime ? It is unquestionably wrong to make judgements about a person and owning firearms, just because he expects the law to be administered responsibly, fairly and without prejudice on every occasion. Police do NOT give favours they implement the law, Case-law exists to define what is not obvious. IPCC exists to keep rogue police 'honest'. There are very few 'complexions' to the Law. Then there is being cooperative and there's being made to bend over, as Gordon has described above. I prefer mutual respect but there seems to be less 'respect' in firearms law than elsewhere, perhaps thats because one needs to understand and be at least neutral to gun ownership and use. How many heads of Firearms units are anti -gun ? Just a few thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Don't intend to nit-pick but Ak47's arnt banned in UK as such. The semi-auto or full-auto of any calibre above .22lr is section 5 prohibited. You can have a straight pull AK47 in the UK. Not correct either. You can have a .22 WMR in semi-auto which is a .22 calibre rimfire but a whole different kettle of fish to a .22lr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Quite right that the .22WMR is also permitted (all .22 rim fire) but is equal in calibre and not above .22LR (No centre fires) or 9mm rimfire to be self-loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Is this perhaps why we are expected to take more **** than your average person would. Rights and privileges again. Define irresponsibly in the context of storing shotgun ammo? Is it irresponsible if the ammo is always kept in a locked house where to remove it would require the commission of a crime ? It is unquestionably wrong to make judgements about a person and owning firearms, just because he expects the law to be administered responsibly, fairly and without prejudice on every occasion. Police do NOT give favours they implement the law, Case-law exists to define what is not obvious. IPCC exists to keep rogue police 'honest'. There are very few 'complexions' to the Law. Then there is being cooperative and there's being made to bend over, as Gordon has described above. I prefer mutual respect but there seems to be less 'respect' in firearms law than elsewhere, perhaps thats because one needs to understand and be at least neutral to gun ownership and use. How many heads of Firearms units are anti -gun ? Just a few thoughts. Excellent post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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