Holocaust Documentary

[ack-ack]

Straying a wee bit,but try reading The Cruel Hunters for an idea of some unbelievable statistics and a great insight into how the SS and The Third Reich operated when the going got tough.The battalion was mostly made up of ex poachers who were released only so they could serve to "redeem" themselves.Google Oskar Dirlewanger and the Sonderkommando.

He was too extreme for the SS.

[digger]

The Japanese have always denied their war crimes. The parallels with the mind sets between both evils are insightful. both were told they were dealing with sub humans and as such could do as they wished. Japanese schools do not talk or teach about WW2.

Knights Of Bushido is graphic but educational reading on this subject.

The Tsunami was karma, evil little race of secular xenophobes

[ordnance]

 

People don't often talk about what happened under the hands of the Japanese during the war, I feel this is just as awful. Such as Unit 731, the Nanjing massacre etc...

 

There were lots of atrocities carried out during WW2, Where the Holocaust stands out because it was a policy to murder a whole race of people and the setting up of extermination camps to kill and dispose of people on an industrial scale. There is no doubt that Stalin for example one of our allies was as big a criminal and thug as Hitler, and his policies probably killed more of his own people than were killed during the Holocaust.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ordnance

[SuperGoose75]

I watched this disturbing Documentary last night and could hardly watch some of the images shown. I dont really have the words to describe what i was feeling.Upsetting would be one.

I could only imagine' what the people/soldiers who first came across such sights must have felt and it is hard to imagine how anyone could ever get them images out of there heads and no doubt would be haunted by them for the rest of their lifes.

 

The men carrying the Corpse's over there backs to the pits and then dropping them in like dolls was particularly disturbing to watch.

 

I recall reading an article about a sibling of one of the nazi leaders who had her "Tubes Tied" so as not to have any children for fear of giving birth to a Child that may have evil traits such as the ones responsible for the horrific crimes that took place.

 

I came across this piece through my readings.

 

How odd of God to choose the Jews

But not so odd as those who Choose

The Jewish God,but not the Jews.

[steve_b_wales]

I watched this disturbing Documentary last night and could hardly watch some of the images shown. I dont really have the words to describe what i was feeling.Upsetting would be one.

I could only imagine' what the people/soldiers who first came across such sights must have felt and it is hard to imagine how anyone could ever get them images out of there heads and no doubt would be haunted by them for the rest of their lifes.

 

The men carrying the Corpse's over there backs to the pits and then dropping them in like dolls was particularly disturbing to watch.

 

I recall reading an article about a sibling of one of the nazi leaders who had her "Tubes Tied" so as not to have any children for fear of giving birth to a Child that may have evil traits such as the ones responsible for the horrific crimes that took place.

 

I came across this piece through my readings.

 

How odd of God to choose the Jews

But not so odd as those who Choose

The Jewish God,but not the Jews.

I believe that the men carrying the corpse's were the one's who worked at the camps, and were made to do this as a form of punishment. I could be wrong though.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I believe that the men carrying the corpse's were the one's who worked at the camps, and were made to do this as a form of punishment. I could be wrong though.

 

I have heard that on previous documentary's

[Hamster]

Once again, the Einsatzgruppen volunteers would come out of the woodwork here too given a permissive environment, and plenty would quietly ignore what they were doing. The rhetoric of hatred is alive and well today, and people fall for it, parrot it or just pretend not to hear it out of fear and ignorance just as they always did.

I think this is what 4-wheel -drive is alluding to (granted badly put), sycophantic people using any excuse to hate others,

 

Yes , plain and obvious enough it was too, there are plenty of post WW2 examples of genocide committed and wantonly ignored, heroised even so long as stage management and the will to ignore is there. You just need to control what can and can't be allowed in the public domain, what needs to be accentuated and what hidden under the guise of national security.

[fenboy]

I believe that the men carrying the corpse's were the one's who worked at the camps, and were made to do this as a form of punishment. I could be wrong though.

 

Yes you are correct , they did say it was gaurds from the camps having to carry the bodies , they also said the officers were made to carry out the very worse tasks.

[SuperGoose75]

I believe that the men carrying the corpse's were the one's who worked at the camps, and were made to do this as a form of punishment. I could be wrong though.

Yes as fenboy has already mentioned,they did state that was the case in the documentary.I just found it horrific viewing watching them carry the Skeletal corpses and dumping them into the pits.Very grim.

[double10]

Absolute cobblers - read your military history.

 

If precision bombing had been available then we would have done it. At the time it was felt that bombing industrial areas was the main opportunity to weaken the German war machine, and by and large it did. Unfortunately, just as today, industrial centres were located near to urban areas simply because of the logistics of getting people to work.

 

If you examine the reduction in German military output as a result of bombing then it was successful.

 

War is, and never has been clinical. The ends do not justify the means, but when you were faced with the might of German military output then something had to be done.

 

Mistakes were made, but this compares to nothing when you set out to eradicate whole populations by the use of death camps and mass exterminations.

I don't wish to argue, but look at the circumstances surrounding Dresden. The military target was a railway, granted, but the most damage was caused to the inner city, home to several hundred thousand refugees, women and children, mostly burned from incendiary bombs, whilst the garrison on the outskirts of the city remained relatively untouched. The fact that Churchill tried to distance himself from it shows that even one of the chief coordinators of the bombing saw that it was immoral to raze a cultural city and kill civilians under the guise of attacking military targets. Again, I am not comparing the morality of bombing and death camps, just stating that the Allies weren't completely clean either.

[keg]

Area or City Bombing was a concept devised by Air Ministry planners who thought the idea would "de- house" workers and affect production.

 

Quotes below are from the history of bomber Command.

 

"However, when the specific order to bomb Dresden came through via the Air Ministry from the headquarters of General Eisenhower, the overall Allied commander, Harris was obliged to carry it out, although the fact he requested the order in writing reveals his true feelings about the operation.

Both the RAF and USAAF bombed Dresden causing a very high level of destruction and casualties. Later, Churchill issued a memo criticising ‘acts of terror and wanton destruction’ in reference to the attack. The Air Ministry and Harris were stunned by this, as it had been Churchill himself who instigated the raid. Churchill withdrew the memo but it was a sign of things to come."

Let's be clear, we did what we did to win aware against an oppressive dictator who was quite happy to lob V1s and V2s randomly over the channel at London.

The same man who set out to murder Jews, Catholics, Jehovahs, Homosexuals,Gypsies. There is no comparison.

[keg]

It's worse if you don't cancel them like the milk before you go away on hols

 

http://punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000m_ULrVQQsGs

[Zapp]

I urge anyone who has the time and stomach for it to google and read 'Witold's Report'.

 

It was written by a Polish cavalry officer who volunteered to be put into Auschwitz to organise resistance and report on what was happening.

 

I warn you though, it is heartbreaking to read, and the mental images it will leave you with will not leave you esily, similar to what mentalmalc posted earlier.

[ordnance]

Let's be clear, we did what we did to win aware against an oppressive dictator who was quite happy to lob V1s and V2s randomly over the channel at London.

 

So the end justifies the means, was it justified for the Luftwaffe to target UK cities and civilians. ? There seems to be double standards.

 

Churchill.

 

'It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed ... The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing.'

 

Consequently, in February 1942, Bomber Command was instructed to shift the focus onto the 'morale of the enemy civil population'. This new policy came to be called 'area bombing'.

The aiming points thereafter, for bombing raids, were no longer military or industrial installations, but a church or other significant spot in the centre of industrial towns. And since fire was found to be the most effective means of destroying a town, the bombers now carried mainly incendiary bombs.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ordnance

[fenboy]

So the end justifies the means, was it justified for the Luftwaffe to target UK cities and civilians. ? There seems to be double standards.

 

 

Was your grandfather in the ss by any chance ?

Edited January 25, 2015 by fenboy

[ordnance]

Was your grandfather in the ss by any chance ?

 

Ask me a sensible question and unlike others I will answer it, If not you would be better saying nothing.

[fenboy]

Given some of your posts on this subject I would say it is entirely sensible .

[digger]

Terrorising the German population and reducing their fervour for war was what was aimed for and achieved by the bombing. They fervently towed the party line and had their leader had the chance to do the same to us he would have done.

same effect was tried on Tokyo where it failed hence Enola Grey.

nope, bombing German cities does not compare to the systematic and abhorrent attempt to wipe a people from the face of the earth. Dresden, act of war. Auschwitz act of evil.

[fenboy]

Terrorising the German population and reducing their fervour for war was what was aimed for and achieved by the bombing. They fervently towed the party line and had their leader had the chance to do the same to us he would have done.

same effect was tried on Tokyo where it failed hence Enola Grey.

nope, bombing German cities does not compare to the systematic and abhorrent attempt to wipe a people from the face of the earth. Dresden, act of war. Auschwitz act of evil.

And that sums it up nicely

[grrclark]

When I was a young lad I read a series of factual books around WW2 which covered all aspects of the war, but the book that captured my attention, whether it was morbid fascination or something else, was the one that focussed on the death camps. I guess I must have been around 10yo when I first read the book and there were a series of pictures that horrified me, one of which was a pit of dead bodies of those that had just faced a firing squad, the other was industrial ovens used to render down human bodies.

 

I don't recall the exact detail from those books now, I don't even remember what they were called, but the power of those images and the story behind them endured and have absolutely influenced me as I have grown and developed. If I close my eyes I can still see each picture in absolute clarity and they still horrify me.

 

There is such a fine line that differentiates 'normal' society from that which can commit unimaginable horrors on other humans. We don't have to look very far to see evidence of that every single day and we don't have to look beyond our own society either. It doesn't take much of a nudge to motivate people towards indulging in behaviour that by any ordinary measure is barbaric, if that behaviour is at all normalised then it becomes endemic.

 

Perhaps as an illustration of how such a thing can be true, we rightly consider paedophilia as the most abhorrent behaviour and it is widely condemned in all aspects of society, yet the conservative and credible measure is that 2-3% of the adult population of the UK have paedophiliac tendencies. Despite how loud the voice of reason and morality is, there is still around 1 million adults in this country that do or would engage in that type of behaviour.

 

It is our moral duty to make sure that we never forget the type of behaviour that humans are capable of and make sure that ignorance, fear, prejudice or intimidation cannot prevent us from doing so. The horrors experienced by those in the death camps may be almost unimaginable, but it must never become unspeakable.

Edited January 25, 2015 by grrclark

[fern01]

Have we really learned our lesson from this? Just how long ago did we "cleanse" 110 000+ Iraquies?. We are no better than any other race-the British Government knew about the Concentration Camps well before the end of the war but chose to do nothing about it. Man is unfit to be classed as an animal.

What could the Allies have done before the troops reached these places?

[ordnance]

 

Given some of your posts on this subject I would say it is entirely sensible .

Like what, anything i posted is historic fact. Show what I posted that is not in the history books or as I said you are better saying nothing.

PS I said if you have a sensible question ask me, what you posted was a statement not a question, do you know the difference.

nope, bombing German cities does not compare to the systematic and abhorrent attempt to wipe a people from the face of the earth. Dresden, act of war. Auschwitz act of evil.

 

I don't think anyone said the two were the same did you. I will ask again was the bombing of UK cities a legitimate act of war as you describe it. ??

Edited January 25, 2015 by ordnance

[digger]

Yes. The bombings of London, Liverpool etc were an act of war. legitimisation stopped when the Nazi regime sought the final solution. Backed by a populace who paid the price for their fanatical support of that regime. When it became apparent how it would end they rushed to the west for safety knowing what had happened in the east would be visited upon them.

Dresden = a few weeks at Bergen Beslan. Hamburg = a drop in the ocean.

The Master Race reaped what they gladly sowed.

[fenboy]

As far as I am aware the bombing of dresden etc did not precede the blitz , so on that note they suffered the same fate as many of our citys .

When the war was at a end and our troops were in Germany , history shows that we did not herd them into gas chambers like animals and exterminte them.

 

War is a dirty business but some in history have been shown to have far more hatred for their fellow humans than others .

[keg]

So the end justifies the means, was it justified for the Luftwaffe to target UK cities and civilians. ? There seems to be double standards.

 

I'm confused, no double standards, they started bombing our cities, we cleared them out, then pushed them back with the Battle of Britain, after which we dominated the air, certainly on this side of the water. We then proceeded to hammer them with bombing, no double standards dear boy, just war, one that the Nazis started.

As far as I am aware the bombing of dresden etc did not precede the blitz , so on that note they suffered the same fate as many of our citys .

When the war was at a end and our troops were in Germany , history shows that we did not herd them into gas chambers like animals and exterminte them.

 

War is a dirty business but some in history have been shown to have far more hatred for their fellow humans than others .

Well put Fenboy,