TriBsa Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 One day, the luvies and lefties might actually wise up and realise that these "natural constituents" of their's probably can't be bothered to vote either. Then we might see change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/ did anyone see the program " low pay britain"? its about how companys exploit workers legally using tax and NI dodging, and in one case, register all employees as an apprentice so they can have reduced wages and tax bills. there was a "hard working" guy who was on about £2.80/ hr, and people are wondering why the benifits system is abused. that guy did a 50hr minimum week to get paid, £1500 (per month) before tax / NI. tax payer looses out, HMRC loses out, employee loses out. and because of these tax loops, the employers cant keep the same staff to gain "worker rights" at 11 weeks they are dismissed. 1 week before there rights kick in. i bet a ton of ill educated people fall into this. so why work? Edited January 29, 2015 by cookoff013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northeastshooter Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 wouldnt it be easier giving them food parcels or a card that can only be used on food that means no alcohol and no fags. Gas and electric allowance and rent sorted give them the basics. If your caught stealing/criminal actives you lose everything for a period of time depending on the crime and an incentive scheme you clean the streets/ work for any extra pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I am all for helping people who help themselves like families and single parents who are on low pay and struggling to work around the needs of their children and the high cost of housing etc. What gets me is the people who make a career out of never working and giving nothing back to society. Why not make them Work one day a week in the community and given the large sums they get in handouts you could pay them minimum wage. a big nut to crack that can only get worst., not helped by zero hour contracts and a massive increase in part time jobs so the employer dioes not have to pay national insurance or contribute to their pension and the government rejoice in lower unemployed stats. Rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/ did anyone see the program " low pay britain"? its about how companys exploit workers legally using tax and NI dodging, and in one case, register all employees as an apprentice so they can have reduced wages and tax bills. there was a "hard working" guy who was on about £2.80/ hr, and people are wondering why the benifits system is abused. that guy did a 50hr minimum week to get paid, £1500 before tax / NI. tax payer looses out, HMRC loses out, employee loses out. and because of these tax loops, the employers cant keep the same staff to gain "worker rights" at 11 weeks they are dismissed. 1 week before there rights kick in. i bet a ton of ill educated people fall into this. so why work? Yes I did see that and the guilty include big names like Tesco. With lots of part time jobs to avoid NI I bet the account gets a big bonus. Edited January 28, 2015 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 It was amazing last night how once he realised he might be kicked out of his house, he managed to find a job paying £7 per hour immediately? Then he spoilt it by saying he could only work 16 hours or it would affect his dole money and his mrs said it wasn't worth it. I'm all for give and take, but these people only ever take. If I lived further north, I'd have kicked my doors in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 i think the crazy thing about that was the actual figures that are being reported to the government for actual stats rip off. 2000 apprentices employed, however thats a rolling 2000, after 11 weeks they are gone and a new 2000 employed (thats great stats but bad for everyone). silly figures like 1 million employed, but only doing 45minutes a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 these shows are only there to divide the working classes and make them hate each other. people further up the tree are scamming a lot more and getting away with it royally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) these shows are only there to divide the working classes and make them hate each other. people further up the tree are scamming a lot more and getting away with it royally Working Classes? I think even Karl Marx would struggle with that. "from each according to his ability......" Edited January 28, 2015 by TriBsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pernod Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Overandunder 2012 you are entirely correct. These types of shows are only a means to stir up the gullable to detract from the real scammers.. Just my opinion of course. pernod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Overandunder 2012 you are entirely correct. These types of shows are only a means to stir up the gullable to detract from the real scammers.. Just my opinion of course. pernod They wouldn't fall for it would they? Oh hang on do search of "benefits" acres of ill-educated spleen venting tosh will be found, usually from the trype writers of the avoid tax at all cost merchants. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I'm not defending these people they get on my nerves too. I was just pointing out the biggest drain on the benefits system, I also know people of 50 years old that have never worked a day in their lives, - Unfortunately I know a few of them too They will become pensioners one day so not ALL pensioners will have paid into the system. - Yep I agree, I still think of pensioners as the ex ww2 types lol These programmes are aired to get exactly the response they are getting on here, Not everyone on benefits is a scrounger. - also true As for making them work for benefits, Are you going to pay them the minimum wage for doing it?.....I suspect not, - no but it would be nice if their benefits had to be earned somehow rather than handed out as a matter of course So you are putting people on the streets to work for pennies, isn't that slave labour, getting them to do the jobs that people should be getting a proper wage for? - As you say, not as simple as it sounds, eg if we make them pick up litter then it could put a genuine employee on benefits as there is no longer a reason to employ them. that's why a decreasing benefits system may work (money goes down each year) and offer free training & placement while on benefits (like the old YTS)... Controversial I know, I'm off to put my tin hat on and wait for the onslaught Not controversial and the reasons you give show why there's no easy solution. Edited January 28, 2015 by Deker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I will probably have a gap between when I stop working and when I start drawing on my pension. During that time I will milk the system for what it is worth. Will I sleep easy at night? Absolutely. 😃 Edited January 28, 2015 by AVB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not defending these people they get on my nerves too. I was just pointing out the biggest drain on the benefits system, I also know people of 50 years old that have never worked a day in their lives, They will become pensioners one day so not ALL pensioners will have paid into the system. These programmes are aired to get exactly the response they are getting on here, Not everyone on benefits is a scrounger. As for making them work for benefits, Are you going to pay them the minimum wage for doing it?.....I suspect not, So you are putting people on the streets to work for pennies, isn't that slave labour, getting them to do the jobs that people should be getting a proper wage for? Controversial I know, I'm off to put my tin hat on and wait for the onslaught I think they air programs like this to defer peoples attention away from the true wastes of tax payers money! If you look at the charts about spending, benefit in it's entire group! Amount to a tiny percentage. In a pie chart, the benefit slice was a sliver. Foreign aid is where we need to focus! I have said for long enough! We need to focus our money on our country! Infrastructure, Industry, Education. Use money ear marked for foreign aid for a push on road overhauls. Set a target to have ALL roads up to standard "ALL ROADS" not just motorways. But Include country lanes, housing estates! That would create jobs for many! Invest in industry and engineering. Bring back propper schemes like apprenticeships. Offer free college and uni courses to attract more people into higher education. Have a huge drive on housing. Build on brown sites. More jobs! Invest in more border security staff who can root out illegal migrants and deal with the problem, rather than sweep it under the carpet! When we have our OWN ship in shape. THEN perhaps if we have any spare cash! We can afford to help others! Benefits for those who need it, is a good thing to have! Unfortunately, many have chosen it as a way of life! Benefit should be made up of multiple things. Housing. You get a 2 bed house when you start out. You have more kids durin your claim, you get NOTHING extra! Food vouchers, NOT cash! Vouchers will have the name of the person they are issued to. Nobody else can exchange them. Other than tokens for electric and gas, and food vouchers! You get NOTHING. If you can prove your seeking employment, A bus pass. Vouchers for a new shirt, trousers etc. Sign on EVERY DAY. Miss a day, lose a week. Those who genuinely want to work will get courses offered to improve their chances of gaining employment! No more free driving lessons, You want to be a PSV or HGV driver! Find a job with a company who is willing to put you through the course! Child benefit for 2 kids only! You or your family get into trouble with the law, Burgalary, Affray, Breach of the peace, car theft, drugs etc. You kiss goodbye to your social housing. You forfeit that when you become ANTI social. Too many people have been long term unemployed for long enough! As others have said! Push a brush in their hands and get them off their ****. Fines for people with gardens that look like rubbish dumps! Muzzles for people who spit every 4 steps they take! I am sure I can come up with a LOT more if you vote me in as the next PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think they air programs like this to defer peoples attention away from the true wastes of tax payers money! If you look at the charts about spending, benefit in it's entire group! Amount to a tiny percentage. In a pie chart, the benefit slice was a sliver. Foreign aid is where we need to focus! I have said for long enough! We need to focus our money on our country! Infrastructure, Industry, Education. Use money ear marked for foreign aid for a push on road overhauls. Set a target to have ALL roads up to standard "ALL ROADS" not just motorways. But Include country lanes, housing estates! That would create jobs for many! Invest in industry and engineering. Bring back propper schemes like apprenticeships. Offer free college and uni courses to attract more people into higher education. Have a huge drive on housing. Build on brown sites. More jobs! Invest in more border security staff who can root out illegal migrants and deal with the problem, rather than sweep it under the carpet! When we have our OWN ship in shape. THEN perhaps if we have any spare cash! We can afford to help others! Benefits for those who need it, is a good thing to have! Unfortunately, many have chosen it as a way of life! Benefit should be made up of multiple things. Housing. You get a 2 bed house when you start out. You have more kids durin your claim, you get NOTHING extra! Food vouchers, NOT cash! Vouchers will have the name of the person they are issued to. Nobody else can exchange them. Other than tokens for electric and gas, and food vouchers! You get NOTHING. If you can prove your seeking employment, A bus pass. Vouchers for a new shirt, trousers etc. Sign on EVERY DAY. Miss a day, lose a week. Those who genuinely want to work will get courses offered to improve their chances of gaining employment! No more free driving lessons, You want to be a PSV or HGV driver! Find a job with a company who is willing to put you through the course! Child benefit for 2 kids only! You or your family get into trouble with the law, Burgalary, Affray, Breach of the peace, car theft, drugs etc. You kiss goodbye to your social housing. You forfeit that when you become ANTI social. Too many people have been long term unemployed for long enough! As others have said! Push a brush in their hands and get them off their ****. Fines for people with gardens that look like rubbish dumps! Muzzles for people who spit every 4 steps they take! I am sure I can come up with a LOT more if you vote me in as the next PM Nice rant but if and just if employers were made to pay a living wage without the taxpayer topping it up if the worker has kids, or even though working and receiving an income still not contributing to society fully in that they pay next to nowt in tax and NI, and that it actually benefited All to work via the fact that working did actually pay a noticeable benefit and made economic sense, rather than to work and be at a loss, then perhaps the ones who do see benefit as a form of income will seek work. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/ did anyone see the program " low pay britain"? its about how companys exploit workers legally using tax and NI dodging, and in one case, register all employees as an apprentice so they can have reduced wages and tax bills. there was a "hard working" guy who was on about £2.80/ hr, and people are wondering why the benifits system is abused. that guy did a 50hr minimum week to get paid, £1500 before tax / NI. tax payer looses out, HMRC loses out, employee loses out. and because of these tax loops, the employers cant keep the same staff to gain "worker rights" at 11 weeks they are dismissed. 1 week before there rights kick in. i bet a ton of ill educated people fall into this. so why work? Yes I saw it and its a huge problem which is growing, also the use of umbrella companies, even the councils are doing that. But....................... A lot of it is actually down to top up benefits, If they didn't exist the companies wouldn't be getting away with what they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 make the minimum wage livable get rid of top up benefits as they wouldn't be required, theres a start, work may pay better than being on the dole and a percentage of these guys may bother then. not the complete solution but a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 make the minimum wage livable get rid of top up benefits as they wouldn't be required, theres a start, work may pay better than being on the dole and a percentage of these guys may bother then. not the complete solution but a start It wont work, if you put the minimum wage up then the produce goes up exponentially (it takes more than one person to make\sell something), therefore the new increased wage won't buy as much as the old lower wage did. People need to be given an incentive and that is removed when you offer more money on benefits than in work, apparently there are plenty of jobs about....I keep hearing that the "immigrants" keep taking them, what I do see is people doing jobs that people on benefits think they're too good to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nice rant but if and just if employers were made to pay a living wage without the taxpayer topping it up if the worker has kids, or even though working and receiving an income still not contributing to society fully in that they pay next to nowt in tax and NI, and that it actually benefited All to work via the fact that working did actually pay a noticeable benefit and made economic sense, rather than to work and be at a loss, then perhaps the ones who do see benefit as a form of income will seek work. KW I can not personally argue with that! However those who are now better off under a £10k tax bracket, providing that they need no further help! Even though they pay no tax into the system, are neither a drain either! My other half manages to get along on under £10k as She has no rent, Mortgage etc to pay as her house is her own! While she pays no INCOME tax, she neither receives benefit either! She does however pay taxes in other area's. So there is a form of contribution into the system. I Grant you, it is not the amount those OVER the threshold are paying! But they are not funding her either! I myself am on under £10k also and live seperately. I was getting £1 housing benefit a week. ONE POUND. Wasn't worth having. I get no working tax credits, or other benefits. I struggle a little! But feel a whole lot better than I did claiming income support. I find a great deal of satisfaction, in looking at what I have now! "even though it's very little" and knowing I payed for it. I am just gobsmacked that so many people are getting away with living their entire life without working. I left school at 16 and was working through until I was 25 and Chris was about 2 then when he was diagnosed with health issues. I took time off to care for him when my marriage broke down. I worked durin that time for 2 year on the buses. Then I WAS in receipt of income support until chris was around 16 when I returned to work. Some just leave school, reproduce and sponge their entire life! Some work, but as you point out do not pay directly into the system! Though they do indirectly. And some work and get the **** end of the stick having to pay the shortfall in tax and fund spongers! In previous jobs I did pay taxes. I grant you! In the job I have now I don't as I earn under £10k but I don't get any help other than that. What I earn pays my way. When I get overtime I do end up paying tax as my earnings elevate above the £10k ceiling. In 2013 I think I paid about £135 income tax. Last year I paid nothing as I didn't get much overtime. That is why I was saying we should provide the basics only. £20k+ a year is more than a lot of people get for working 40+ hours a week. I would happily have put myself forward for work for what I was getting in benefit. I was on around £290 a week all in with Housing benefit. Now I an on half of that, but MUCH happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I can not personally argue with that! However those who are now better off under a £10k tax bracket, providing that they need no further help! Even though they pay no tax into the system, are neither a drain either! My other half manages to get along on under £10k as She has no rent, Mortgage etc to pay as her house is her own! While she pays no INCOME tax, she neither receives benefit either! So those on low income and who pay no tax or NI contributions are not a drain? I would advocate they are a total drain in that they are making the country unsustainable, low wages exacerbated by the use of mass immigration to artificially lower wages means the country is not receiving the amount it needs to spend, those who advocate low wages and the use of immigrants who apparently are a benefit to us! are short sighted ( er we forget that once they are old or ill they will need supporting after having put naff all in of course thanks to earning next to nowt) and remember one day you too will need the NHS a transport system maybe a need for our defences to be put to use on your behalf,and eventually of course a pension, except that maybe one day it wont be there thanks to low wages and the eagerness to take out take out more than is going in? KW Edited January 28, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) The biggest drain on the benefits system is pensioners, Just saying, A pension is not a benefit, its something you paid into all your working life (probably not many do nowadays). A dole scrounger is far better off than a paid up pensioner. Wait till you get yours, then have a bitch about it. Just saying Edited January 28, 2015 by das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 So those on low income and who pay no tax or NI contributions are not a drain? I would advocate they are a total drain in that they are making the country unsustainable, low wages exacerbated by the use of mass immigration to artificially lower wages means the country is not receiving the amount it needs to spend, those who advocate low wages and the use of immigrants who apparently are a benefit to us! are short sighted ( er we forget that once they are old or ill they will need supporting after having put naff all in of course thanks to earning next to nowt) and remember one day you too will need the NHS a transport system maybe a need for our defences to be put to use on your behalf,and eventually of course a pension, except that maybe one day it wont be there thanks to low wages and the eagerness to take out take out more than is going in? KW Not everyone can earn big wages, not every employer can pay big wages. There will always be those on low money and I'm one of them. I pay a bit of tax, a bit of NI, pay a mortgage and bills and have little left over. If I ever need help then I'm as entitled as anyone surely? Don't judge people by what they earn but by the people they are. More money would be nice but the choice for most of us is a low wage or no wage at all, blame that on successive Governments and greedy employers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Not everyone can earn big wages, not every employer can pay big wages. There will always be those on low money and I'm one of them. I pay a bit of tax, a bit of NI, pay a mortgage and bills and have little left over. If I ever need help then I'm as entitled as anyone surely? Don't judge people by what they earn but by the people they are. More money would be nice but the choice for most of us is a low wage or no wage at all, blame that on successive Governments and greedy employers. well said mate BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 so, I'm self employed, I get a letter through the post a few times a year asking for national insurance contribution etc.... theres a nice statement at the end saying if I dont pay it wont be eligible for healthcare or benefits. So how are people who havent worked at all eligible? makes me sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Not everyone can earn big wages, not every employer can pay big wages. There will always be those on low money and I'm one of them. I pay a bit of tax, a bit of NI, pay a mortgage and bills and have little left over. If I ever need help then I'm as entitled as anyone surely? Don't judge people by what they earn but by the people they are. More money would be nice but the choice for most of us is a low wage or no wage at all, blame that on successive Governments and greedy employers. Problem is those on low will outstrip those on high so if less goes in than comes out what happens then the tooth fairy? KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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