Persuasive a for securing perm around horses?

[throttlemonkey]

Hi all,

I was getting close to securing perm on a friends land but shotgun out of the question as he has 40 odd horses on the land. I'm thinking of Fac application now to try and secure shooting rights, so need the perm first. Can anyone help with reasons he needs vermin control to protect his animals, discharge as spread of disease etc? Regards

[scolopax]

horses legs do not like rabbit holes...that is all you need to say.

 

rats around horse food...not really justifies an FAC.

 

go for FAC air rifle or .22 rf. , both effectively silent but i would be very very cautious with a rimfire around horses, have a nasty habit of ricochet.

[Mentalmac]

Agreed on horses and rabbit holes - where I shoot the landowner lost a horse to this before I shot there. Laid there all night leg broken down hole - had to be dispatched.

 

I shoot an HMR around horses, carefully... don't shoot too close because of ricochet potential obviously. They get used to the noise very quickly and don't spook.

[leeds chimp]

as above..i shoot on a few horse places for rabbits as they hate them....just be very careful tho due to ricochet

[Zapp]

You could also consider a hushpowered .410 or similar. With subsonic cartridges they are very quiet and unobtrusive.

[throttlemonkey]

Thanks guys

Tm

[demonwolf444]

Yes the vet bills for broken legs don't come cheap. Sounds ridiculous, they are fine in the hedge rows but as soon as the start digging burrows and holes in the middle of the field, and horses charging about on a wet windy night as they do its a recipe for disaster. We put old tyres that we use for jumps over holes that are in the middle of the field which seems to discourage the horses from standing on them. But it can be a genuine problem.

[notsosureshot]

You could also consider a hushpowered .410 or similar. With subsonic cartridges they are very quiet and unobtrusive.

 

Edit: *We all understand your enthusiasm for the shooting sports and that getting an FAC is an almost right of passage within them. However, think about your attitude to firearms in general. What I mean is, rather than look for reasons for a grant of an FAC on this, seemingly difficult, permission. Look at the permission objectively and decide yourself if an FAC gun would be required, or appropriate. Also, do you genuinely feel you have the knowledge and skills as of this moment to use an FAC firearm safely, on this permission. I hope you see what I mean. But it sort of comes across as though you're really motivated to get an FAC and searching for reasons to be granted one. This isn't the best way to be a safe shot, in my opinion. An FEO may well see it the same way. I am certainly not putting you down, far from it. But as a shooting community, what we do as individuals, impacts us all.*

 

My original answer is below...

 

I use a fully moderated Baikal single barrel on a permission I have which is right next to stables, like literally 20ft away along one side. It logically necessitated discussion with the owners of the horses before I started shooting the land. Communicating with them and receiving feedback was really important and also my FEO was appreciative that I'd taken the time to do so. I viewed it as a simple courtesy. The topography and geology of the permission was such that shotgun was chosen.

 

A moderated .22lr would be just as quiet (if not moreso) as the Baikal but has a higher chance of ricochet. Cannot speak for ricochet potential of .17 HMR as I've never used one, I know it is higher velocity than a .22lr, but with a lower chance of ricochet as the bullets are ballistic tipped. I'd bow to the knowledge of others in that area.

 

If you are shooting in close proximity to livestock or housing for livestock, you really need to choose your angles very well indeed. You may need a high seat. A single pellet, let alone bullet, in the side of a stable block and you are quite literally, toast, as far as safety (and your licence) is concerned. Not to mention the safety of the livestock.

 

To clear pests, a small calibre rifle is the most efficient choice without doubt under ideal circumstances. But pick what is practical and safe. The answer may not involve guns at all, in some cases, or may involve a non-FAC air rifle, in others.

 

If you are a relative beginner, you may wish to seek advice from an experienced shooter before taking on such a permission. I would strongly suggest this anyway. Nothing wrong with a second opinion. I say this because around livestock or human housing, as I say, it only needs a single bullet (or pellet) of any type to be astray, for you to be in serious trouble.

Edited February 25, 2015 by notsosureshot

[mick miller]

Been there, done that.

 

Horse owners are very quick to pick up on the fact that their animal seems distressed from a night of someone banging away. Not all will tolerate the noise, in my experience few do.

 

I tried using a 22lr but compacted ground meant many ricochets, I gave up one that choice. Hmr ruled out I opted for an Fac airgun, which was quiet, effective and although not without ricochet, much of the energy is lost on the initial strike.

 

You have to be very, very careful picking angles and ensuring that there is nothing behind or about to cross in front. A high seat over a burrow is most effective and the safest choice. The problem with a high seat is that it must be sited away from the horses as otherwise you will turn up to find that it has been bent out of shape after they have used it for a back scrape!

[Mentalmac]

Been there, done that.

 

Horse owners are very quick to pick up on the fact that their animal seems distressed from a night of someone banging away. Not all will tolerate the noise, in my experience few do.

 

I tried using a 22lr but compacted ground meant many ricochets, I gave up one that choice. Hmr ruled out I opted for an Fac airgun, which was quiet, effective and although not without ricochet, much of the energy is lost on the initial strike.

 

You have to be very, very careful picking angles and ensuring that there is nothing behind or about to cross in front. A high seat over a burrow is most effective and the safest choice. The problem with a high seat is that it must be sited away from the horses as otherwise you will turn up to find that it has been bent out of shape after they have used it for a back scrape!

I must be lucky :-). The landowners at where I shoot got a new horse or two and rang me to tell me to come and have a few shots to get them used to it...

[throttlemonkey]

 

Edit: *We all understand your enthusiasm for the shooting sports and that getting an FAC is an almost right of passage within them. However, think about your attitude to firearms in general. What I mean is, rather than look for reasons for a grant of an FAC on this, seemingly difficult, permission. Look at the permission objectively and decide yourself if an FAC gun would be required, or appropriate. Also, do you genuinely feel you have the knowledge and skills as of this moment to use an FAC firearm safely, on this permission. I hope you see what I mean. But it sort of comes across as though you're really motivated to get an FAC and searching for reasons to be granted one. This isn't the best way to be a safe shot, in my opinion. An FEO may well see it the same way. I am certainly not putting you down, far from it. But as a shooting community, what we do as individuals, impacts us all.*

 

My original answer is below...

 

I use a fully moderated Baikal single barrel on a permission I have which is right next to stables, like literally 20ft away along one side. It logically necessitated discussion with the owners of the horses before I started shooting the land. Communicating with them and receiving feedback was really important and also my FEO was appreciative that I'd taken the time to do so. I viewed it as a simple courtesy. The topography and geology of the permission was such that shotgun was chosen.

 

A moderated .22lr would be just as quiet (if not moreso) as the Baikal but has a higher chance of ricochet. Cannot speak for ricochet potential of .17 HMR as I've never used one, I know it is higher velocity than a .22lr, but with a lower chance of ricochet as the bullets are ballistic tipped. I'd bow to the knowledge of others in that area.

 

If you are shooting in close proximity to livestock or housing for livestock, you really need to choose your angles very well indeed. You may need a high seat. A single pellet, let alone bullet, in the side of a stable block and you are quite literally, toast, as far as safety (and your licence) is concerned. Not to mention the safety of the livestock.

 

To clear pests, a small calibre rifle is the most efficient choice without doubt under ideal circumstances. But pick what is practical and safe. The answer may not involve guns at all, in some cases, or may involve a non-FAC air rifle, in others.

 

If you are a relative beginner, you may wish to seek advice from an experienced shooter before taking on such a permission. I would strongly suggest this anyway. Nothing wrong with a second opinion. I say this because around livestock or human housing, as I say, it only needs a single bullet (or pellet) of any type to be astray, for you to be in serious trouble.

[throttlemonkey]

Thank you for taking the time with this reply, a wise one and given me something to think about!

[rimfire4969]

I shoot at a riding school and also around our horses when we had them (between horses at the moment). I shoot a 22 and hmr as well as a shotgun, you obviously have to be carefull with all but it's common sense and the key is a back stop that will also take care of a ricochet. If you are not sure don't shoot or move to get the shot.

 

I think get the permission based on rabbit holes and rats, them apply for fac I would go for moderated 22 and an fac air. You don't have to buy both but you are covered either way.

[Scully]

I shoot in and around quite a few farmyards and their gardens, some have paddocks while some have caravans, and some have both. I use a .22 Weihrauch HW 100 air rifle but care is still needed as fields of fire can change on a daily basis.

[compo90]

When I lived down south a lot of my permission was on equestrian land, I did a lot of ferreting with nets..... The few rabbits I couldn't catch with ferrets, nets and a mates lurcher..... I bought a 12g single baikal hushpower........ And shot well away from the horses........

[malkiserow]

I'd not use a .22lr around 40 horses. I find most of the time, the horses get very interested in what you are doing and mill around, often in the wrong place. A .22lr will richochet, do you want to explain that to an owner of a wounded horse, not to mention the vets bill. You can do much with a sub 12ftlb .177 PCP, some nets and ferrets. Go .22 FAC air if you need more range. I've used long nets at night when the horses are shut in their stables.

[rimfire4969]

Not that many horses are put away at night certainly not around here anyway.

[flynny]

I shoot at a riding school and also around our horses when we had them (between horses at the moment). I shoot a 22 and hmr as well as a shotgun, you obviously have to be carefull with all but it's common sense and the key is a back stop that will also take care of a ricochet. If you are not sure don't shoot or move to get the shot.

I think get the permission based on rabbit holes and rats, them apply for fac I would go for moderated 22 and an fac air. You don't have to buy both but you are covered either way.

Best answer yet,

 

I've never worried about ricochet controlling rabbits on my horse paddock perms with 22lr, just be mindful of ground conditions, where the horses are and back stop etc,

 

Ricochet can happen with any projectile

 

I also agree with "notsosure" the last paragraph in his post

 

All common sense really,

 

Atb

 

Flynny

Edited February 26, 2015 by flynny