keg Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I started a thread on here last year about this as my knowledge football was and still is very poor. Having read the latest reports, it seems clear that there was a police cover up and that David Duckenfield made the wrong decision by opening the gates to the tunnel that lead to the pens which he has admitted to. It seems that fans would be crushed on the gates if he didn't open them so he seemed dammed either way. Have i understood this correctly? I stress that i am not taking sides or judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 there's a whole lot more to it than that, most of it I've forgotten but I seem to remember some mounted police forcing the fans that way. why it's taken 20 odd years to come to this is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 You're probably better off googling it as you can bet your life, any discussion will end up with people either slagging off scousers or the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I recall seeing a video of one of the fans in the immediate aftermath, saying that he arrived at the game late having been to the pub for 2 hours. He admited that he then pushed his way through all the fans down to the front with all his pals.I think someone needs to find this video and use it as evidence. How on earth can someone else be blamed for these drunken idiots shoving everyone forward?We always seem to need someone to blame in todays world and it's never the actual people who should be . from Auntie. Edited March 18, 2015 by 100milesaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 And they're off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I recall seeing a video of one of the fans in the immediate aftermath, saying that he arrived at the game late having been to the pub for 2 hours. He admited that he then pushed his way through all the fans down to the front with all his pals.I think someone needs to find this video and use it as evidence. How on earth can someone else be blamed for these drunken idiots shoving everyone forward?We always seem to need someone to blame in todays world and it's never the actual people who should be . from Auntie. oh dear oh dear stop the thread NOW KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 oh dear oh dear stop the thread NOW KW Please listen to this man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royboy Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 This is going to be a belter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 96 people lost their lives at a football match. The inquest is still in progress, and this really isn't the place to discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and be safe Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Probably be locked... ... by Page 2. I have my own thoughts (based on different sides) but will keep them to myself as I know there will be people who have been affected by this terrible occurrence. All I will say is, I watched this happen on the news when it happened. It made me very wary from a early age about large crowds. To this day I will try and avoid crowded situations. There is always 3 sides to a story. Side A (the fans), side B (the police) & side C (The Truth). Hopefully the truth will out. But will everyone agree with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 It's all about the cover up. Indeed, government, police and national press all set about smeering the scousers and having regard to a couple of comments on this and other threads I reckon they would have got away with it. Tack on Cyril Smith and a splash of Jimmy Saville and you can see that the 70s and 80s were seriously corrupt times. Indeed, Saville and Smith did get away with it - their wide scale and whole sale abuse went completely unpunished notwithstanding being flagrant. I wonder if all generations get to look back with hindsight and wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I think it is extraordinary that David Duckenfield has just admitted he lied about the gates being forced open.He admits he was warned of the consequences of opening the gates yet gave the order. I have to ask why he kept to that lie all these years and is now admitting it,and will he now be charged. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/11/hillsborough-top-police-officer-says-he-is-blank-about-two-hours Edited March 18, 2015 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I do hope the truth comes out and I am certainly not blaming anyone but sometimes there are so many contributing factors it is difficult to find the actual reason. I go to a football match 3 or 4 times every month and can understand how crowd control is a poisened chalice.I hope that at the end of this the families of the bereaved will have some kind of closure. from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think it is extraordinary that David Duckenfield has just admitted he lied about the gates being forced open.He admits he was warned of the consequences of opening the gates yet gave the order. I have to ask why he kept to that lie all these years and is now admitting it,and will he now be charged. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/11/hillsborough-top-police-officer-says-he-is-blank-about-two-hours He didn't keep that lie on his own. You think he's the only one who worked out what went wrong, who knew the names of those who were to blame and then kept silent to keep it covered up. He's too old for prison, his career is over, his colleagues have probably passed and now he's unburdening himself because the climate is right. The government knew because they lent on the Sun to spearhead the smear. Like the deaths of nearly 100 people at a football match might not have lead maybe 1 reporter to stumble on the truth at some point before this week? Indeed, everyone in Liverpool knew the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I am related - by marriage - to a fair chunk of Liverpool. Father-in-law was one of 11 kids - all with large families. At one scouse wedding, I was told - don't know if was in jest - that half the door staff in Liverpool were family. I do know that many are very bitter. There are many reasons it happened, with a fair chunk attributable to the man who took the fateful decision. Whether he panicked, through lack of experience, or made an honest mistake, the cover up was truly dreadful. I honestly do not know whether the bereaved families want closure or vengeance, but I suspect that the inquest will be just the start of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I certainly don't want this thread to turn into a slanging match, for whatever reason, 96 lives were lost that day. On teh other hand, let's not stifle debate either. oh dear oh dear stop the thread NOW KW ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) He didn't keep that lie on his own. You think he's the only one who worked out what went wrong, who knew the names of those who were to blame and then kept silent to keep it covered up. He's too old for prison, his career is over, his colleagues have probably passed and now he's unburdening himself because the climate is right. The government knew because they lent on the Sun to spearhead the smear. Like the deaths of nearly 100 people at a football match might not have lead maybe 1 reporter to stumble on the truth at some point before this week? Indeed, everyone in Liverpool knew the truth 116 of the 164 South Yorkshire Police statements were doctored, 41 of the victims could have been saved had medical treatment been given /allowed, stories of drunkenness fabricated by the police.All nasty stuff but the truth is after 20 odd years of perseverance by the victims families, finally starting to come out. KW Edited March 18, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I don't disagree about the police cover up but should any blame at all be attributed to those fans pushing at the back of the crowds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) He didn't keep that lie on his own. You think he's the only one who worked out what went wrong, who knew the names of those who were to blame and then kept silent to keep it covered up. He's too old for prison, his career is over, his colleagues have probably passed and now he's unburdening himself because the climate is right. The government knew because they lent on the Sun to spearhead the smear. Like the deaths of nearly 100 people at a football match might not have lead maybe 1 reporter to stumble on the truth at some point before this week? Indeed, everyone in Liverpool knew the truth You are correct in what you say and I wholeheartedly agree with your synopsis ,I think in this instance there will always be more questions than answers,perhaps in 40 or 100 years some answers may be revealed,a lot more I believe will never surface. Edited March 18, 2015 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Imagine being the guilty party, how would you ever move on from that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hmm popcorn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Do you not get the impression this guy (Duckenfield?) is being made a scapegoat? Did he alter all the police notebooks and witness statements? No someone higher up doing some serious (criminal) ****-covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Not sure if I've posted on this particular Forum about this previously but both Myself my Elder Brother and Cousin were at the game on that fateful day in April 89. We have given statements to the Police and Press at the time. 2 of us were outside the ground at the Leppings Lane End and one inside. It was a free for all as the majority of the Supporters gathered at the turn styles were late and fearful of missing the start of the Match. Most were intoxicated and many were touting for tickets because they had none... There were several cover ups, administrative and H&S failures and serious mistakes were made, but the crowd in the main stampeded through the gates and many innocent people were caught up in the rush. I was fortunate enough to get out of the way as I was large and strong enough to do so. Many were not. To say the police herded or forced the Stampeding fans to behave the way they did is erroneous. Duckenfield is being made a scapegoat in my opinion. I'm pleased the Liverpudlian families have got the results they wanted, as the victims in the main were innocent, however way you look at it though, the root cause of the stampede was a basic spontaneous degeneration in human behaviour, fuelled by alcohol. That's all I'm going to say on the subject and we should draw a line under it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thanks Mike, You must have some painful memories, it's good of you to post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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