keg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Good idea, best of both worlds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 She was in the act of withdrawing HMS endurance to save about 1.8 million a year, Argentina saw that as a declaration of non interest in the Falklands and moved in, thatcher who was waning in popularity seized the opportunity to enter into a conflict costing us billions? many lives lost unnecessarily on both sides, as for the Belgrano , an old ship crewed mainly by conscript KIDS,she was outside the exclusion zone, non threatening and steaming away at the time, but she was sunk needlessly with a huge loss of life and you call her patriotic! I would call her psychotic. KW It was a ship of a country we were at war with, they had started that war by invading British soil and holding captive British citizens and members of the Royal Marines.the Belgrano as a ship of the invading country was a legitimate target it would not have mattered if she had been docked in Southampton harbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 It was a ship of a country we were at war with, they had started that war by invading British soil and holding captive British citizens and members of the Royal Marines.the Belgrano as a ship of the invading country was a legitimate target it would not have mattered if she had been docked in Southampton harbour. Point is it was all needless, had she not tried (as per usual with the cons) to save a couple of quid and invite the argies in, she would not have needed to spend billions defending the falklands in the 1st place, and sorry yes whilst we where at war we had an exclusion zone, it was not a free for all, the Belgrano was 36 miles outside of that had it been inside I would have said fair enough, but it was not it was steaming away with two destroyers, who did not even realise it had been sunk until many hours later, when it was to late for hundreds of SEA CADETS IE KIDS, to be saved a low point for us I think, but there you go that's my stance on it and believe me there is no one with more patriotism than me , but wrong is wrong regardless of sides. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Education is not a direct link to intelligence, I work with some very very well educated idiots. KW never truer words were spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Point is it was all needless, had she not tried (as per usual with the cons) to save a couple of quid and invite the argies in, she would not have needed to spend billions defending the falklands in the 1st place, and sorry yes whilst we where at war we had an exclusion zone, it was not a free for all, the Belgrano was 36 miles outside of that had it been inside I would have said fair enough, but it was not it was steaming away with two destroyers, who did not even realise it had been sunk until many hours later, when it was to late for hundreds of SEA CADETS IE KIDS, to be saved a low point for us I think, but there you go that's my stance on it and believe me there is no one with more patriotism than me , but wrong is wrong regardless of sides. KW Please stop using the death of so many people, Argentinian as well as British, as a political football. You mightn't like Maggie and that's your prerogative. But on this matter, even the head of the Argentine Navy disagrees with you. Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s, wrote in a letter to La Nación, published in the 2 May 2005 edition, that the Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, that it was holding off for tactical reasons, and that being outside of the exclusion zone was unimportant as it was a warship on tactical mission. This is the official position of the Argentine Navy. And the captain of the Belgrano “It was absolutely not a war crime,” said the Belgrano’s captain, Hector Bonzo, in an interview two years before his death in 2009. Following the message sent to the Argentine government on 23rd Apr, Argentine Rear Admiral Allara, who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of, said “After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano“. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 If Nige was pm back then he'd have walked right across that ocean, spoken to the Argentinians and sorted the whole mess out with his common-sense-man-of-the-people ways, then they'd all go off for a friendly pint down the Dog n Duck with all his miner pals who's pits he'd keep open. Yay for Nige! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Point is it was all needless, had she not tried (as per usual with the cons) to save a couple of quid and invite the argies in, she would not have needed to spend billions defending the falklands in the 1st place, and sorry yes whilst we where at war we had an exclusion zone, it was not a free for all, the Belgrano was 36 miles outside of that had it been inside I would have said fair enough, but it was not it was steaming away with two destroyers, who did not even realise it had been sunk until many hours later, when it was to late for hundreds of SEA CADETS IE KIDS, to be saved a low point for us I think, but there you go that's my stance on it and believe me there is no one with more patriotism than me , but wrong is wrong regardless of sides. KW All war is needless and every death that occurs in war is a tragedy,but it is a messy horrible business and people die,the Belgrano had the capability to turn around at any time with its support vessels and had the capability of causing loss of life to our troops,it was only a couple of years ago that the documents sealed for 30 years were opened, it makes interesting reading. It was an act of war,no more no less. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080490/Belgrano-Britain-WAS-right-sink-ship-attacked-Task-Force.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 If Nige was pm back then he'd have walked right across that ocean, spoken to the Argentinians and sorted the whole mess out with his common-sense-man-of-the-people ways, then they'd all go off for a friendly pint down the Dog n Duck with all his miner pals who's pits he'd keep open. Yay for Nige! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRYAN3 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 And he would not have tried to sell Westland to Sikorsky and our car makers to General Motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 If Nige was pm back then he'd have walked right across that ocean, spoken to the Argentinians and sorted the whole mess out with his common-sense-man-of-the-people ways, then they'd all go off for a friendly pint down the Dog n Duck with all his miner pals who's pits he'd keep open. Yay for Nige! and that highly intelligent post has added what to this excellent debate so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) and that highly intelligent post has added what to this excellent debate so far? a bit of humor much needed when thinking about the grim state of british politics Edited April 21, 2015 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 she was twice the man of all the main party leaders put together. She would have shredded Alex Salmond and Nichola Sturgeon. Completely agree with that, she was probably our last 'leader' since then we've just had spineless bean counters more interested in lining their own pockets, if she was still alive and running for PM today she'd get my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 So the Falklands war was Maggies fault ? , well I never and there was me thinking it was those pesky Argentinians . I think the biggest problem with conservative goverments is they practically have to spend all their term sorting out the mess the previous labour one have left . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 and that highly intelligent post has added what to this excellent debate so far? Just doing my bit to bring the thread back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 So the Falklands war was Maggies fault ? , well I never and there was me thinking it was those pesky Argentinians . I think the biggest problem with conservative goverments is they practically have to spend all their term sorting out the mess the previous labour one have left . No the point was she cut defences of falklands, which gave the argies opportunity to invade, and forced us into a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 No the point was she cut defences of falklands, which gave the argies opportunity to invade, and forced us into a war. Isnt hind sight a wonderful thing , she did forsee that keeping pits open that were not profitable was draining the country though , cant win them all hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Isnt hind sight a wonderful thing , she did forsee that keeping pits open that were not profitable was draining the country though , cant win them all hey Hindsight is wonderful, but she didn't show any foresight on the falklands, a disputed territory closer geographically to the other party, it always needs a military presence. All the criticism of all politicans could be negated with the same argument that you used there, "oh hindsights wonderful" we employ and pay the politicans to make informed choices and decisions on our behalf...... If they make a bad one or one that doesn't work out, its why they get voted out........ We need more forward thinking, I actually think more politicans should play chess and learn to see consequences for their decisions before they happen..... Or at least consider worst case scenarios... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggsy Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Yes, they do play chess already...........they use us as pawns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I see the cons have brought out there latest tool emphasis on tool in the form of the grey man, or one of the few who thought edwina was worth one :lol: now all this idiot has done is unite Labour and the SNP oh joy. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Isnt hind sight a wonderful thing , she did forsee that keeping pits open that were not profitable was draining the country though , cant win them all hey Actually hindsight was not needed she had been well and truly warned of the consequence of withdrawing HMS endurance, she chose to ignore the advice. oh and yes this is official transcript form the 30 year rule information release. KW "Her foreign secretary Lord Peter Carrington also warned defense secretary John Nott that axing Britain's Antarctic patrol ship would send all the wrong signals about London's willingness to defend the Falklands. Documents released after 30 years locked away in Britain's National Archives showed that the head of the Royal Navy was fuming in 1981 about planned defense cuts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Actually hindsight was not needed she had been well and truly warned of the consequence of withdrawing HMS endurance, she chose to ignore the advice. oh and yes this is official transcript form the 30 year rule information release. KW "Her foreign secretary Lord Peter Carrington also warned defense secretary John Nott that axing Britain's Antarctic patrol ship would send all the wrong signals about London's willingness to defend the Falklands. Documents released after 30 years locked away in Britain's National Archives showed that the head of the Royal Navy was fuming in 1981 about planned defense cuts" How wonderful that you blame Thatcher for the Falkland islands being attacked,I was always under the impression that the Argentinians attacked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Isnt hind sight a wonderful thing , she did forsee that keeping pits open that were not profitable was draining the country though , cant win them all hey hindsight and coal mines in 2013 Britain used 60 million tons of coal with 50 million imported Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrM Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) I see the cons have brought out there latest tool emphasis on tool in the form of the grey man, or one of the few who thought edwina was worth one :lol: now all this idiot has done is unite Labour and the SNP oh joy. KW I appreciate that you will vote for UKIP KW, but what coalition are you actually in favour of having? Edited April 21, 2015 by MrM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 She was in the act of withdrawing HMS endurance to save about 1.8 million a year, Argentina saw that as a declaration of non interest in the Falklands and moved in, thatcher who was waning in popularity seized the opportunity to enter into a conflict costing us billions? many lives lost unnecessarily on both sides, as for the Belgrano , an old ship crewed mainly by conscript KIDS,she was outside the exclusion zone, non threatening and steaming away at the time, but she was sunk needlessly with a huge loss of life and you call her patriotic! I would call her psychotic. KW Said I wasn't going to post on UKIP and true to my word I'm not...but the above statement is total unpatriotic ********...You are so anti establishment about everything in this country KW it amazes me you've lived here so long...you obviously have a big chimp on your shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 hindsight and coal mines in 2013 Britain used 60 million tons of coal with 50 million imported Quite possibly and like many other things it may be cheaper to import than produce here , I do not see a queue of private consortiums wanting to re open the mines just yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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