Legal Highs

[keg]

There are many high functioning recreational drug users who will never turn to crime and are in control of their habits, same as there are many drinkers who are in control of their habits

 

The reality is the war is lost, better to try a different approach than chucking money into an unwinnable war

I agree, my bro in law was an example still wouldn't get in a car with them.

[kdubya]

 

What complete tosh

 

 

This is/was a member of my family his name was Andrew Relton a truly nice lad when not off his head, he took a tad to much one night, he could not get off the stuff and it killed him , leaving his partner to bring up his daughter alone (his partner is also a smack head)and breaking his mother and fathers hearts, he started an a bit of weed, he ended up on heroin, a nice harmless pastime eh!

 

KW

 

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/man-found-unconcsious-dies-1-6758723

[Danger-Mouse]

what was the tosh your answer or the vid

 

KW

 

Your comment was tosh.

 

If you don`t like Bill Hicks that`s your loss. He`s acknowledged by his peers to have been one of the finest comedians ever. A view I happen to share.

Neither am I but it made my point, never come across many who burgle, thieve, mug old women for what tablets are in their handbags, or or go on the game to support a drink habit?

 

KW

 

Nah, they`re usually too busy beating up their own families.

[kdubya]

 

Your comment was tosh.

 

If you don`t like Bill Hicks that`s your loss. He`s acknowledged by his peers to have been one of the finest comedians ever. A view I happen to share.

I forgot comedians know more about drugs than medical experts, still it does seem that this thread proves the stuff is brain scrambling.

 

KW

[Danger-Mouse]

 

This is/was a member of my family his name was Andrew Relton a truly nice lad when not off his head, he took a tad to much one night, he could not get off the stuff and it killed him , leaving his partner to bring up his daughter alone (his partner is also a smack head)and breaking his mother and fathers hearts, he started an a bit of weed, he ended up on heroin, a nice harmless pastime eh!

 

KW

 

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/man-found-unconcsious-dies-1-6758723

 

A tragic story.

 

However it doesn`t mean that everyone or even the majority of people that take a drag on a spliff are going to be chasing the dragon a few weeks later. Just as those that like a pint or two on a weekend don`t all turn into raving alcoholics.

[kdubya]

 

Your comment was tosh.

 

If you don`t like Bill Hicks that`s your loss. He`s acknowledged by his peers to have been one of the finest comedians ever. A view I happen to share.

 

Nah, they`re usually too busy beating up their own families.

Funny I ilke a drink never batted the wife or kids yet, I would politely suggest that in comparison to the many millions of responsible drinkers in this country the ones who go tits up on it are a flea bite , unlike those who take drugs where the comparative few who are on them end up in the main as smackheads, who will resort to any method / means possible to sustain their smackhead addiction.

 

 

KW

Edited May 29, 2015 by kdubya

[brett1985]

99.9% of those that like a drink, do so responsibly and with no ill effect to themselves or others, 99.9% of those that take DRUGS end up as smack heads with all the ills the title brings.

 

KW

as much as i love most of your witty and fun poking posts, i cant help but feel that your more than a little wrong with that statement KW...

[keg]

 

This is/was a member of my family his name was Andrew Relton a truly nice lad when not off his head, he took a tad to much one night, he could not get off the stuff and it killed him , leaving his partner to bring up his daughter alone (his partner is also a smack head)and breaking his mother and fathers hearts, he started an a bit of weed, he ended up on heroin, a nice harmless pastime eh!

 

KW

 

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/man-found-unconcsious-dies-1-6758723

So sorry to hear KW. This is exactly the point that many do not get.

[Danger-Mouse]

I forgot comedians know more about drugs than medical experts, still it does seem that this thread proves the stuff is brain scrambling.

 

KW

 

You`re deflecting KW. Trying to turn the conversation away from your own comment which was clearly erroneous. My brain isn`t so scrambled that I can`t see that.

 

But as you`ve brought up medical experts. Ask any medical practitioner what costs the NHS more, alcohol or illegal drugs?

 

I already know the answer.

[A1Decoy]

From what i have noticed from people my age, an awful lot more end up on cocaine and harder drugs through alcohol, than they do through cannabis.

 

Oscar

[islandgun]

I wonder how many drink and how many take recreational drugs, I would think the majority of us like an occasional drink so thats guessing 75% of the adult population drink whats the % of (other) drug takers ?

[SpringDon]

I don't think that you fully understand the problems of alcohol in our society today . Your figures are way ,way wrong . Alcohol Is the biggest reason for crime in today's society ,It's also one of the biggest causes of divorce and separation . Most drinkers will say that they are in control and that they do not pose a problem to any body .

Why not say that responsible use of class A drugs is no problem to society ,after all the effect of booze and drugs is very much the same ,except that the drugs have a certain stigma and drinkers will look down at drug takers although they are after the same high . Drugs and booze are very much the same and become addictive and make normal people behave in irresponsible and some times dangerous ways . Harnser

^ this. If you want to see harm visit a&e on a Saturday night. I think you'd struggle to find someone in there due to a legal high.

[kdubya]

 

You`re deflecting KW. Trying to turn the conversation away from your own comment which was clearly erroneous. My brain isn`t so scrambled that I can`t see that.

 

But as you`ve brought up medical experts. Ask any medical practitioner what costs the NHS more, alcohol or illegal drugs?

 

I already know the answer.

Alcohol related costs to the NHS are about 4 billion a year,count up the tax income from beer wine and spirits and determine cost or benefit to the NHS?

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001/economics/tax-revenue-sources-in-uk/

[brett1985]

From what i have noticed from people my age, an awful lot more end up on cocaine and harder drugs through alcohol, than they do through cannabis.

 

Oscar

 

 

I wonder how many drink and how many take recreational drugs, I would think the majority of us like an occasional drink so thats guessing 75% of the adult population drink whats the % of (other) drug takers ?

 

 

 

 

These 2 posts have hit the nail on the head imho...

 

i know of far more people who have gatewayed into drugs via drink, than just trying drugs as a stand alone first step.

 

i also know that a greater majority of recreational drug users actually stop using them as they get older, whereas drinkers continue to drink throughout their lives.

[Danger-Mouse]

I wonder how many drink and how many take recreational drugs, I would think the majority of us like an occasional drink so thats guessing 75% of the adult population drink whats the % of (other) drug takers ?

 

The latest statistics from the Crime Survey for England and Wales 2011/12 suggest that among people aged 16-59, use of most drugs has been decreasing for several years, and is around the lowest since measurements began in 1996.

An estimated one in three adults (36.5%), around 12 million people, had ever taken an illicit drug in their lifetime; three million people (8.9%) had done so in the last year; and 1.7 million people (5.2%) had done so in the last month.

Drug usage is consistently higher for young people than for the whole population. For people aged 16-24, 2.5 million people (37.7%) had ever taken an illicit drug in their lifetime; 1.3 million (19.3%) had done so in the last year; and 700,000 people (11.1%) had done so in the last month.

The survey also estimates that five million adults (15.6%) had ever taken Class A drugs, one million (3%) had in the last year, and half a million (1.5%) had done so in the last month.

Cannabis is the drug most likely to be used. The Crime Survey for England and Wales 2011/12 indicates that 6.9% of 16-59 year olds reported using cannabis in the last year. Powder cocaine is the next most commonly used drug, with 2.2% claiming to have used it in the previous year. This is followed by ecstasy use at 1.4%, amyl nitrite and amphetamines on 0.8%, and ketamine on 0.6%. Other drugs are more rarely used.

Surveys on a national and local level have found that illegal drug use is only an occasional activity for most people.

Most illegal drug use is experimental or on a relatively controlled, recreational basis.

Most people who use drugs – be it legal or illegal substances – do not come to serious harm.

 

Statistics on alcohol

More than 9 million people in England drink more than the recommended daily limits

In England, in 2012 there were 6,490 alcohol-related deaths, a 19% increase compared to 2001

Alcohol is 10% of the UK burden of disease and death, making alcohol one of the three biggest lifestyle risk factors for disease and death in the UK, after smoking and obesity.

An estimated 7.5 million people are unaware of the damage their drinking could be causing

Alcohol misuse costs England around £21bn per year in healthcare, crime and lost productivity costs

 

In the UK in 2012-13, there were 1,008,850 hospital admissions related to alcohol consumption where an alcohol-related disease, injury or condition was the primary reason for hospital admission or a secondary diagnosis

In 2012 there were 8,367 alcohol-related deaths in the UK

Males accounted for approximately 65% of all alcohol-related deaths in the UK in 2012

Alcohol now costs the NHS £3.5bn per year; equal to £120 for every tax payer

 

Crime

Alcohol-related crime costs £11bn per year (2010-11 costs, England)

A fifth (20%) of all violent incidents in 2010–11 took place in or around a pub or club. This rises to 30% for stranger violence. More than two thirds (67%) of violent offences occur in the evening or at night and 45% at the weekend

Nearly a fifth (19%) of all adult binge drinkers reported committing an offence in the previous year compared with 6% of other regular drinkers and 3% of those who occasionally or never drank alcohol

There were 9,930 casualties of drink driving accidents in the UK in 2012, including 230 who were killed and 1200 who suffered serious injury

Victims believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol in around half (47%) of all violent incidents, or 917,000 offences

[Danger-Mouse]

Alcohol related costs to the NHS are about 4 billion a year,count up the tax income from beer wine and spirits and determine cost or benefit to the NHS?

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001/economics/tax-revenue-sources-in-uk/

Alcohol-related crime costs £11bn per year (2010-11 costs, England)

Alcohol misuse costs England around £21bn per year in healthcare, crime and lost productivity costs

 

Legalise and tax marijuana then. I guarantee the crime and health costs will be far, far outweighed by the tax revenue. No one has ever died from a marijuana overdose.

[kdubya]

as I posted earlier, cost of alcohol related injuries / admissions directly related to alcohol to NHS 3.5 billion tax revenue from alcohol duty 12 billion.

 

 

KW

[kdubya]

Alcohol-related crime costs £11bn per year (2010-11 costs, England)

Alcohol misuse costs England around £21bn per year in healthcare, crime and lost productivity costs

 

Legalise and tax marijuana then. I guarantee the crime and health costs will be far, far outweighed by the tax revenue. No one has ever died from a marijuana overdose.

Doctors what do they know eh! still if you do get schizophrenia you wont be on your own.

 

KW

 

In today's issue of the British Medical Journal, Prof Henry and other doctors from Imperial College, and St Mary's Hospital, both in London, say cannabis could be a major contributor to UK deaths.

Researchers calculate that if 120,000 deaths are caused among 13million smokers, the corresponding figure among 3.2million cannabis smokers would be 30,000.

The drug can cause cancer, lung disease and abnormalities associated with serious mental illness.

Users are up to six times more likely to develop schizophrenia.

The British Lung Foundation says smoking three joints a day can cause the same damage to the airways as a pack of 20 cigarettes.

Edited May 29, 2015 by kdubya

[grrclark]

Funny I ilke a drink never batted the wife or kids yet, I would politely suggest that in comparison to the many millions of responsible drinkers in this country the ones who go tits up on it are a flea bite , unlike those who take drugs where the comparative few who are on them end up in the main as smackheads, who will resort to any method / means possible to sustain their smackhead addiction.

 

 

KW

KW you have absolutely no basis for that statement. It is tragic that you have had somebody in your family who has fallen victim to drugs and I can understand your strong feeling towards the result of drug abuse and addiction, but not all drugs are the same.

 

There are masses of studies of drugs and cannabis is by almost every measure less harmful than alcohol. There is not 1 confirmed death as a result of anybody overdosing on cannabis.

 

Synthesised drugs are a different thing entirely and things like cocaine, amphetamines, heroin, crack, meth, are all terrible things, but cannabis is very different. This nonsense that it is a gateway drug is just exactly that, nonsense.

Edited May 29, 2015 by grrclark

[Sprucey]

Prof. David Nutt.

 

This man was actually sacked due to his findings. I won't elaborate on here, but run a quick search. you will be very surprised.

[Zapp]

Please remember that it is against the house rules to link to videos containing swearing that wouldnt otherwise be allowed to be posted on the forum.

[Dougy]

We had a plonker start at our place who thought it was OK to strike up a special fag in our smoking shelter.

 

Nice one, Off you pop young man dont bother coming back. He thought because it was a "legal" whatever he was OK Nope

 

We have a Zero limit for everything here. Apart from work.

[955i]

Funny I ilke a drink never batted the wife or kids yet, I would politely suggest that in comparison to the many millions of responsible drinkers in this country the ones who go tits up on it are a flea bite , unlike those who take drugs where the comparative few who are on them end up in the main as smackheads, who will resort to any method / means possible to sustain their smackhead addiction.

 

 

KW

So how many recreational drug users have never stolen to feed their habit?

 

You may have (another) chip on your shoulder about this, but your arguments are just silly.

[Danger-Mouse]

as I posted earlier, cost of alcohol related injuries / admissions directly related to alcohol to NHS 3.5 billion tax revenue from alcohol duty 12 billion.

 

 

KW

 

The figures I found are different. See above.

 

But going back to your earlier "tosh" statement (I know you don`t want to but we are going to)

 

Marijuana is, by far, the most popular illegal drug among Britons; 93% of drug users (more than 14 million people) have used marijuana. It is often depicted as a gateway drug, and it is certainly true that it is the drug that most drug users use first; marijuana was the first illegal drug used by 82% of drug users. However, there is no clear evidence from this research to suggest that usage of marijuana necessarily leads to usage of other, harder, drugs. Indeed, half of marijuana users have never taken any other drug.

The proportion of drug users who have used marijuana has increased since 2008, when 87% had used it. There has also been an increase in the number who have taken cheap amphetamines such as speed, which is now the second most widely used drug (31% had taken it in 2008, 34% in 2014). Cocaine is the third most widely used illegal drug (29% of British drug users have ever used it) followed by ecstasy (25%).

 

And from the same survey only 6% of people in the UK have ever tried heroin.

 

Finally.

 

The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse estimated there to be 306,000 heroin and crack users in England in 2012, and usage of these drugs has been falling in recent years.

 

The NHS estimates that around 9% of men in the UK and 4% of UK women show signs of alcohol dependence.

 

So millions of alcohol dependent people and just 306,000 on crack and smack.

 

I repeat. Tosh.

[Danger-Mouse]

Please remember that it is against the house rules to link to videos containing swearing that wouldnt otherwise be allowed to be posted on the forum.

Sorry. But Bill summed it up so well and I did post a warning.

 

Anyone that missed it just Youtube "Bill Hicks legal and illegal drugs."

Edited May 29, 2015 by Danger-Mouse