saddler Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Final stage will be signed off in a couple of weeks time. That'll be it for the future of legal firearms ownership in Scotland, as the SNP make no secret that this is the start of their plans for private gun ownership. No more shooting tin cans/targets in your own garden, no use outside of approved designated clubs (of which there are zero at present in Scotland)... Date set for Stage 3 of the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill I am writing to inform you that the Scottish Parliament has now set a date for Stage 3 consideration of the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill (as amended at Stage 2). Stage 3 amendments to the Bill will be considered on Thursday 25 June 2015. The debate and voting on Stage 3 amendments is expected to get underway at about 2.30pm that afternoon. This process is expected to take a few hours and be followed by the final debate on whether Bill, as finally amended at Stage 3, should be passed into law. The final vote on the Bill has been scheduled for 5pm on 25 June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 That sounds pretty conclusive to me......sad times up North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwizard Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thing is what follows for rest of us , no real battle for gun ownership against them passing this as far as I can see , I am a BASC member but if they can do this in another part of UK what,s to stop them or any other government doing same or more in rest of UK , NOTHING at all . And as above SNP state this is the beginning of their plans for gun ownership . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Pointless exercise. It won't change anything because to many are in circulation. Like drugs. Real thugs will still get lenient sentencing. Bow hunting has been illegal for decades. I own a bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 The scary thing here is that the SNP have vote on English law, and have sway over English lawmakers. This is wrong. parliament is broken; politics is corrupt and needs changing. The Scots (and here I do sympathise with them) have got the government they voted for. Some will have no regrets, others will possibly be ruing the day that the SNP won as many seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 In light of the fact that there is no planned march by Scottish shooters of all disciplines on parliament then I would would like to think that this bad law if/when it comes into force is met with total non-compliance. Even the Scottish Police don't want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Final stage will be signed off in a couple of weeks time. That'll be it for the future of legal firearms ownership in Scotland, as the SNP make no secret that this is the start of their plans for private gun ownership. No more shooting tin cans/targets in your own garden, no use outside of approved designated clubs (of which there are zero at present in Scotland)... Does this mean that any air gunner who has a permission for vermin control rats, rabbits squirrels etc will no longer be able to shoot on said permission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I think you can shoot anywhere you have permission, including your back garden, so long as you have a license. The OP's post at 1 would otherwise be tantamount to a complete ban, which I have no doubt is the ultimate objective. However, they can't call them in following a ban unless they know where they are, and that's all licensing legislation does; create a record of ownership, and once that is established they know where to call if and when a ban is enforced. They can't enforce a ban though, nor a license scheme for that matter, unless there is compliance. No compliance and they're no better off than they were before, but now there will be millions of air rifles in illegal circulation, similar to the creation of S1 shotguns following Hungerford; no one knows how many just simply weren't registered. Edited June 11, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Are any shooting organisations fighting this??Everyone no matter what type of shooting they do should be unified in protesting against this!i hope airgun sales in scotland are going through the roof now and nobody complies if its made law like scully said.Its a great pity we dont have a 2nd ammendment like the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Does this mean that any air gunner who has a permission for vermin control rats, rabbits squirrels etc will no longer be able to shoot on said permission? Vermin control on farmland & the like will still be allowed. Shooting in your garden will not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I think you can shoot anywhere you have permission, including your back garden, so long as you have a license. Have you read the Bill?Designated Ranges are the only places you can shoot...akin to named land/range conditions on an FAC. THIS part of the Bill struck me as the most worrying aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Have you read the Bill? Designated Ranges are the only places you can shoot...akin to named land/range conditions on an FAC. THIS part of the Bill struck me as the most worrying aspect. Saddler I have not yet read the full bill. HOWEVER Having got as far as a young person owning an air rifle it clearly states: "The conditions are that— (za) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for sporting purposes 10 (including shooting live quarry) on private land, (a) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of target shooting on private land, (b) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of participating in events or competitions, 15 © the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of the holder’s membership of an approved air weapon club, (d) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of protecting livestock, crops or produce on land used for or in connection with agriculture, (e) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of pest 20 control". So unless somewhere later in the bill it states something to the contrary of the above, I think you might be mistaken?? Once I have completed reading it I will respond further if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Have you read the Bill? Designated Ranges are the only places you can shoot...akin to named land/range conditions on an FAC. THIS part of the Bill struck me as the most worrying aspect. I did read the Bill as it was first proposed some time ago, so I could easily be wrong, but isn't your own back garden private land? To require the holder to use an air gun on designated ranges or private land where the holder has permission to shoot would indeed mean they would be classed akin to Section 1 firearms. As bad as it is all I can see the legislation has done is to require that the owner applies for a license; it doesn't specify 'good reason' nor proof of land available to shoot on as far as I'm aware, but like I say, I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I did read the Bill as it was first proposed some time ago, so I could easily be wrong, but isn't your own back garden private land? To require the holder to use an air gun on designated ranges or private land where the holder has permission to shoot would indeed mean they would be classed akin to Section 1 firearms. As bad as it is all I can see the legislation has done is to require that the owner applies for a license; it doesn't specify 'good reason' nor proof of land available to shoot on as far as I'm aware, but like I say, I could be wrong. Scully I don't think you are wrong as I have just read it and cannot find what Saddler is going on about. But I am far from an expert and may well have misunderstood the wording. I am sure the experts will be along soon with their interpretation of it! Hopefully SACS and BASC can respond on this one??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 My reading of it was that it DOES stipulate Section 1 style restrictions on where they can be used....and not many people are allowed to use Section 1 (or even Section 2) guns in their back gardens. Hope I'm wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 There was certainly talk of stopping 'plinking' in people's own gardens in urban areas fae macskill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I am certainly not trying to argue with you saddler but can you copy and paste the section in the current bill that you think means this please? My excerpt above was quoted directly from it and I didn't see the part you are talking about. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Pointless exercise. It won't change anything because to many are in circulation. Like drugs. Real thugs will still get lenient sentencing. Bow hunting has been illegal for decades. I own a bow. Would you still own that bow if it was made illegal to own without a certificate and there were heavy fines/custodial sentences involved As you have said, it won't make a jot of difference to the scum bags who are the existing problem with airguns, but it'll definitely affect the law abiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I am certainly not trying to argue with you saddler but can you copy and paste the section in the current bill that you think means this please? My excerpt above was quoted directly from it and I didn't see the part you are talking about. Thanks. Hi Not taken as arguing. ..so all well & good (Was sidetracked yesterday until 3am today on a leather order/project) It may be that I've combined the wording re.. approved clubs (Section 1 in tone & intent) with the comments from Macasskill on ending plinking in back gardens: such wording within the Bill would back up his rhetoric... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bad lindz Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Its Friday afternoon and the sun is belting it down so the MSP`s will want this over and done with sharply so I hope that all the MSP`s have read up on this and don't just vote for the sake of voting. We have to remember unfortunately that this debate all came about the tragic death of a youngster. We all know that Police Scotland are bogged down with paper work and if this goes through it will be a nightmare to administer. It will in my opinion be another wedge being hammered by the anti`s and could lead to further issues for all shooting sports / hobbies in Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 ...the youngster that died: the tragic case of the drug dealer colleague of his drug using parents, who used an airgun that had been given to him by the parents as settlement of a drug debt... Aye. Scottish politics at it's very best. More spin put on this by the SNP/MaxAssKill than you'd find in a room full of centrifuges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Regarding the tragic death of the youngster; in case anyone is left with any doubt as to how futile this licensing scheme is, as best as I know, it occurred when a drug dealer was supplying illegal drugs to the childs father (for want of a better word) and the dealer picked up the air rifle which was owned by the childs father and unintentionally shot the child. Why it was loaded and easily accessed is for the father to explain, and why it was aimed at the child is probably best explained by the dealer. Tragic so this is, if any politician can explain to me how licensing air guns will prevent this from happening again I'll sign up for it myself. I seem to recall a picture in the tabloids of the father posing with McKaskill (spelling), giving his full support to the campaign by the minister. You couldn't make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Would you still own that bow if it was made illegal to own without a certificate and there were heavy fines/custodial sentences involved As you have said, it won't make a jot of difference to the scum bags who are the existing problem with airguns, but it'll definitely affect the law abiding. No I would not surrender the bow, I would not be branded a criminal without a criminal offence. These stupid laws are predujudice in the extreme. They brand people to a type but do nothing to protect the innocent and the minority. Why stop here, let's ban cars of certain types or motorcycles. Remove pointed ends on kitchen knives. Just prejudice towards a minority that has traditionally been like a timid mouse to the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 The issue is that in the policy Memorandum it stated: The Scottish Government accepts that this (plinking) has been a common pastime for many, and is seen as an entry level for many young shooters who go on to take up the sport on a more regular, organised basis. However, the Scottish government has a wider responsibility to the community to reduce alarm and protect public safety. Against this background, Ministers do not believe that target shooting in such an environment (gardens or other urban of highly populated settings) should generally be acceptable unless the applicant can satisfy the Chief Constable as to the safety and other arrangements in place to ensure that shooting can be carried out without risk to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 So what they going to do about urban gangs and drug dealers in cars speeding around then? A far greater threat to society, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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