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Cheap cartridges vs fast expensive ones


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Does it really make any difference, I purchased some Gamebore Black gold which are advertised as "up to" 1500fps, don't get me wrong they are some sexy looking cartridges, but will it make me hit more oftern than a srandard no thrills box from someone you've never heard of.

These carts are sometimes up to £2 more for 25 than the no thrills boxes, but what FPS do these cheaper carts opperate at?

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save your money, fast cartridges just beat you up and don't kill any more.

 

A few weeks ago I would have agreed with you completely , but I was given a couple of boxes of Gamebore pigeon extreme to try .

The difference between those and a standard cartridge is unreal .

 

Yes they are a heavier load and yes they kick a little more but not excesivley so through my auto .

 

The range those cartridges hold their pattern is far in excess to anything else I have used and surfice to say I killed some pigeons and crows a long , long way out !

If I was able to afford to use them all the time then I have no doubt they would put many extra birds in the bag , unfortunately they would also cause a fair bit of damage on close birds so would not be an ideal all round cartridge anyway , but for Corvid or long range shooting I doubt you would get better.

 

I would not buy a expensive cartridge for speed alone though as in reality there is little difference between 1350 - 1500 fps in the field.

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save your money, fast cartridges just beat you up and don't kill any more.

 

+1.

 

As a general rule, the faster they go, the worse they pattern. 1200-1300fps is quite enough and less will do the job.

 

Remember that spherical / near-spherical objects passing through the transonic region also tend to "normalize" their velocities as they go subsonic. What I mean is that one lot of shot might start at 1500fps and another lot at 1200fps, but by the time the pellets reach 30 yards from the muzzle (i.e. where you're actually trying to kill your bird), both lots will be going at roughly the same speed (all other factors - e.g. shot size - being constant).

Edited by neutron619
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A few weeks ago I would have agreed with you completely , but I was given a couple of boxes of Gamebore pigeon extreme to try .

The difference between those and a standard cartridge is unreal .

 

Yes they are a heavier load and yes they kick a little more but not excesivley so through my auto .

 

The range those cartridges hold their pattern is far in excess to anything else I have used and surfice to say I killed some pigeons and crows a long , long way out !

If I was able to afford to use them all the time then I have no doubt they would put many extra birds in the bag , unfortunately they would also cause a fair bit of damage on close birds so would not be an ideal all round cartridge anyway , but for Corvid or long range shooting I doubt you would get better.

 

I would not buy a expensive cartridge for speed alone though as in reality there is little difference between 1350 - 1500 fps in the field.

 

Bet they were a larger shotsize too. Speed alone isn't the answer and for normal shooting standard speed cartridges are more than adequate.

Edited by sitsinhedges
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Bet they were a larger shotsize too. Speed alone isn't the answer.

 

No as I said above I would not pay more for speed alone, but there are times when you can get a better performance by paying more .

That said its no good paying lots of money for a cartridge that will kill at 70 yards if you cannot hit one at 35 !

The pigeon extreme were 5 shot.

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No as I said above I would not pay more for speed alone, but there are times when you can get a better performance by paying more .

That said its no good paying lots of money for a cartridge that will kill at 70 yards if you cannot hit one at 35 !

The pigeon extreme were 5 shot.

 

It's the shot size that gave you range not the muzzle velocity. I shoot 5 shot subsonics and they will kill at any normal shotgun range with a MV of 1050fps. Little cannon balls.

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It's the shot size that gave you range not the muzzle velocity. I shoot 5 shot subsonics and they will kill at any normal shotgun range with a MV of 1050fps. Little cannon balls.

 

I would say its a combination of components not just the shot size , I have used plenty of other 5 shot cartridges that would never kill consistently at extreme ranges

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Expensive doesn't mean fast, victory starlight a and Rio royals are faster than black gold, here is the speeds over my chrono

 

Medium Game Cartridges 32g

1437fps Mirage Xpert Game

1409fps Rio Royal


1404fps Fiocchi Golden Pheasant


1361fps Victory Starlight

1345fps Cheddite CH6

1336fps RC SIPE

1330fps Gamebore Black Gold


1328fps Proper SIPE

1309fps FOB
 Super

1306fps Rottweil Tiger

1297fps Proper Hi-Speed

1288fps Gamebore Pure Gold


1287fps Lyalvale Supreme Game


1284fps Eley VIP


1277fps Hull High Pheasant Extreme


1277fps Baikal Record

1244fps Gamebore Clear Pigeon

1229fps Hull Special Pigeon

1225fps Hull High Pheasant

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I find that I shoot best with just one or two cartridges types which seem to offer very consistent patterns, low recoil and consistent velocities. These are important as it means you can be consistent with lead and swing through for every single shot and place your shot accurately. The minute I swap to other carts, I start missing, and over thinking the shot. Just stick with what suits you and your gun. Placing shot on the target is more important than ultimate velocity.

 

I use a Silver Pigeon 1, and it seems to perform best (for me anyway) with Just Cartridges' Extreme Game 32g in a 6 shot load (1425fps) Diamond shot using the Gordon Recoil System (£126/500). I find them the very best game cartridge I've ever used. Superb patterning, low recoil, highish velocity and very hard hitting. I swapped from using Lyalvale Extreme Game which I didn't get on with. The difference in hits is staggering. I hit twice the birds I used to which actually makes them cheaper per bird when viewed that way. I've hit crow and pheasant using this cartridge at close on 50yds and they've dropped every time first time.

 

I also use Gamebore Clear pigeon as a cheap and cheerful load and find that good out to 30 or 40 yds max but it doesn't pattern as well or carry as well as the JC Extreme Game. 'Course it could just be that I'm not a great shot! :lol:

 

I'll be sticking with the Just Cartridges shells in future.

Edited by Savhmr
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There is no obvious reason for charging more for faster cartridges. Its all in the choice of powders but the days of more powder to increase the velocity are long gone. There are so many different powders today you could almost certainly do them cheaper than standard velocity with a bit of searching through the loading tables.

 

What often happens is that the cheapest powder load generally comes from using a very fast burning powder. This creates a sharper recoil and people mistake sharp recoil for a more powerful cartridge.

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That's a good point. Anyone remember the (dirty) old Russian Record Cartridges? Kicked like a mule on steroids and boomed like a canon, yet probably no faster than High Flyer. Made a hell of a mess of the barrels too whatever power was used!

 

I've found the Lyalvale extreme game to pack a recoil punch and not in a pleasant way. I know loads of people really rate them, but they're not for me. A good cartridge for me has to pattern well, have lowish recoil and be very consistent velocity/load wise. There's probably loads out there that tick the boxes but I guess once we find a cartridge that just works well, we stick to using it. Having tried the GRS system carts from just cartridges for reasonable money, that's where my vote goes but others shooting the Silver Pigeon will obviously have their favourites too. It seems a very personal thing, but as long as you're consistently hitting what you point at, that's surely all that matters?

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Guest cookoff013

It's the shot size that gave you range not the muzzle velocity. I shoot 5 shot subsonics and they will kill at any normal shotgun range with a MV of 1050fps. Little cannon balls.

Same as 2s and 4s. Hits like a freight train.

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I have used most of the popular Game loads in both 20 and 12 bore. I like Pure Gold in my 20 s/s and will use them if they are available in our local shop.

 

In my 12 I used to use either Supreme Game 30gm or Black Gold 30gm both in no6 shot. However last season I used some old Clear Pigeon 30gm on high pheasants and to be honest I couldn't notice the difference?

 

However I do believe opening a box of Black Gold may give you more confidence? I wonder how much more the box cost to produce compared to the white/green clear pigeons ones?

 

I shoot with a gentlemen once a season who is one of the best Skeet shots in our area? He uses FITASC cartridges, I think they are 28gm no71/2 and he kills birds dead in the air at 40+ yards, he uses what ever cartridges are the cheapest at the time.

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Just find a cartridge that you like and more important that you can hit the target with I went through black gold white gold for what I shoot I settled on velocity hits just as many clays as the rest buy a slab and its like you get a couple of boxes for free don't get me wrong they are great cartridges but being out of work and financial depressed ie skint I cannot justify the extra cost I'm not a cartridge snob like some if it works and affordable I'm happy :lol:

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I had a little play at weekend with white gold, black gold and superfast.

 

In the end I found I was hitting more consistently with the superfast's and managed to get my best scores ever on DTL with the superfast too getting a 25/66. I did the first few stands on black gold then did the rest with superfast and think I missed more on first barrel with the black gold than I did when I was using the superfast

I think some of it is in the mind and having confidence in yourself the gun and the cartridge.

Edited by James1983
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