neutron619 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Hello chaps. I just bought a second-hand 16 gauge SxS for about £150 all in. I think I'm rather pleased about that though to be perfectly honest, the chap rushed me through the sale a bit faster than I was ready for. Still - I bought it because I thought I might be able to make it a bit of a project: tidy it up, refinish the stock, maybe, and eventually turn it into a dedicated pigeon gun (or something else?). I wanted a SxS and I could have just bought a "Zombie Basher" 12-gauge, but it's really a birthday present to myself and I fancied something a bit unusual. Anyway, it'll be here tomorrow and the local shop where it's being delivered can make a bit of profit on all the usual stuff - brushes, jags, cartridges, etc. The question really, is which cartridge? I called the earlier to find out whether I'd be able to feed it, and I think they said that they have Hull High Pheasant in various varieties for 16 gauge, and possibly a Gamebore cartridge too (not sure if it's the "Traditional Game" or the "Pure Gold" variety). I'm inclined to go with Hulls this time (though obviously I'll have to pattern them to see what they're doing) but has anyone used any of the above in a 16ga? User reviews would be appreciated if anyone can provide them. Other question: I usually shoot #5's out of my "do everything" semi-automatic. #6's out of my 28 gauge. My preference / inclination is big shot, tight chokes. If I follow my own rules / prejudices about cartridges, I should probably be shooting an ounce of #6's out of a 16 gauge, but if it's not going to be a pheasant gun (it isn't, at least at the moment), I'm wondering about #7's. A few times in the last few weeks, I've knocked an awful lot of feathers off of a several long-range pigeons which then haven't come down. Not just tail feathers from missing them behind either - the bird looks hit, but then carries on anyway. It makes me wonder whether a #5 pattern just isn't up to it with a bird as small as a woodie. Perhaps more pellets (and maybe fewer speculative shots at 50 yard birds) will lead to more success? I know it's been discussed over and over here and everyone's got their own view. I was always taught that it doesn't make a huge difference what cartridge you use if you point the gun in the right direction. That made sense. For the chap who taught me that, being an excellent shot, it's probably true as well - he hits nearly every bird he points his gun at - but as an average-standard shooter, I wonder if looser chokes (which this gun has), smaller pellets and a denser pattern might help put a few more birds in the freezer? I suppose I'm not looking for comments on the merits of #5 vs #7 which has been done to death, so much as comment from other average shooters who might know whether a change of "style" can turn a "1-2-bird walk with the gun" into a "3-bird walk with the gun" or not? Adam. Edited September 3, 2015 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Dense pattern for me every time over large patchy pellets. I shot #7 on Sunday and even woodie came down. Switched #6 and started to get smoked birds carry on! Not just an isolated instance! My muzzleloaders always do better in filling the game bag with #7 over any other choice. Ironically although never being a fan of #5, #4 I do like :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Underdog, thanks for your reply. It rather confirms what I've been starting to suspect, which is that whilst the #5 will give you the odd, lucky, 50+ yard "spectacular", they're not much use for the much more commonly encountered "normal-long-range" birds between 30-40 yards out. I see what you mean about #4 in a way. Probably not quite the same thing, but the longest clean-killed bird I ever shot was a jackdaw over 50 yards out with steel(!) #4 out of a Gamebore 2¾" cartridge. I guess the big pellets retained the requisite energy and - being 1/3 less dense than lead - I had 1/3 more pellets than I otherwise would have done, filling out the pattern. Again, that lends weight to the denser patterns argument and indeed, that was the moment when I started to suspect I could be doing better... It's looking very much like 26g or 28g of #7 for this new gun. I'm wondering if I should name it / her...? Edited September 3, 2015 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Adam Happy birthday, post some pictures of your new favourite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) It's this one: Edit: Apologies - picture now removed from GunTrader, so link removed... Nothing special really, but I wanted a SxS and it should be fun for a play / to practice working on without risking a grand's worth of gun getting it wrong. No chance of having to lend out any cartridges when I'm using it either, as a gamekeeper advised me once when he showed me his. Edited September 3, 2015 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I've found 26/7 work well on woodcock, snipe, partridge and pigeon 28/6 pheasants Mines running on Teague 3/8's choke in both barrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misser Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 very true what the gamekeeper said....bit of a downer when your the one that runs out of shells though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I use Hull high pheasant 26gram in either 7's or 6's through my Leech 16bore. I use the 30gram equivalent in my 12 and I'm happy with the results in both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Looks like Hull High Pheasant in 26/#7 and 28/#6 is winning it at the moment. Keep the votes coming chaps and many thanks for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The 16 is/was to the continent what the 12 is to the UK so the choice there is greater. Although I don't hold out much hope, a chat to RUAG might show if they bring the Rottweil Special 16F ('F' is fibre) 27gram 2.5mm into the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Underdog, thanks for your reply. It rather confirms what I've been starting to suspect, which is that whilst the #5 will give you the odd, lucky, 50+ yard "spectacular", they're not much use for the much more commonly encountered "normal-long-range" birds between 30-40 yards out. I see what you mean about #4 in a way. Probably not quite the same thing, but the longest clean-killed bird I ever shot was a jackdaw over 50 yards out with steel(!) #4 out of a Gamebore 2¾" cartridge. I guess the big pellets retained the requisite energy and - being 1/3 less dense than lead - I had 1/3 more pellets than I otherwise would have done, filling out the pattern. Again, that lends weight to the denser patterns argument and indeed, that was the moment when I started to suspect I could be doing better... It's looking very much like 26g or 28g of #7 for this new gun. I'm wondering if I should name it / her...? I once heard a funny thing and have never followed it up but once someone told me, or did I read it! That certain shot sizes don't favour certain bores/gauges! I remember that in a 12g #5 does not fit as well as #6! Apparently if one places a card in the bore and pours one layer of shot in and it sits readily flat then good however if there is a natural tendency for shot to not fill to the edges well without sitting high it is not a good size for that bore! Sounds crazy I know but since I heard it many years ago I have been acutely aware of #5 not doing as good from a 12g as the sizes either side! I'm not saying #5 is rubbish at all, just after decades of shooting but far from expert status I resist buying #5. I do have some shot in stock for the front loaders but don't like using it! It may be good in the .750" Bess, we will see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The 16 bore is the perfect candidate for the home reloader - I have loaded everything from 26g to 36g lead in the 16 as well as 24g steel as a duck load. I have shot big canadas with Hevishot and have never felt undergunned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The 16 bore is the perfect candidate for the home reloader - I have loaded everything from 26g to 36g lead in the 16 as well as 24g steel as a duck load. I have shot big canadas with Hevishot and have never felt undergunned Unlike my 28 gauge, for which there's no Lee Load-All - I am seriously considering saving some more cash for one of the aforementioned for this gun. Obviously, I need to discover if the thing fits and that I can shoot it first, but all being well, I'll probably start with the 16-gauge shells and move onto 12 gauge with one of those converter kits when I get the hang of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Forget the Choke, Cartridge or Range specifics-you got the answer right from the start-"stop taking 50 yard speculative shots". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 A local farmer heading towards retirement has shot a 16 bore since his teen years. He folds up most of what he shoots with the Rio's he uses ..... He's tried other things but is reluctant to change as his confidence is so high ..... personally I think it's due to the 2.75mm shot in their 6's carrying more down range energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 A local farmer heading towards retirement has shot a 16 bore since his teen years. He folds up most of what he shoots with the Rio's he uses ..... He's tried other things but is reluctant to change as his confidence is so high ..... personally I think it's due to the 2.75mm shot in their 6's carrying more down range energy. I wonder if that is the same local farmer I know that uses a 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 The 16 is/was to the continent what the 12 is to the UK so the choice there is greater. Although I don't hold out much hope, a chat to RUAG might show if they bring the Rottweil Special 16F ('F' is fibre) 27gram 2.5mm into the UK. A great cartridge and what I use on the odd occasion I use my 16 gauge , I am into my last box though . B&P also made a very good fibre wad 16 gauge cartridge but again finding them now may be difficult . My 16 is choked extra full in both barrels so I usually shoot 7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) A local farmer heading towards retirement has shot a 16 bore since his teen years. He folds up most of what he shoots with the Rio's he uses ..... He's tried other things but is reluctant to change as his confidence is so high ..... personally I think it's due to the 2.75mm shot in their 6's carrying more down range energy.Not really. The extra "down range energy" as you put it will be a piddly amount.More likely is that his gun holds a nice pattern with them cartridges and he gets a consistent 3-4 pellets on a bird. U :-( Edited September 4, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Forget the Choke, Cartridge or Range specifics-you got the answer right from the start-"stop taking 50 yard speculative shots". Well, yup, but even if I do that, I still need a good cartridge to use with it don't I, or there won't be any shots, speculative or otherwise. And anyway, they're a lot less speculative when they connect, which they often do, and that's the difference between going home with a bird for the pot and not. Not many birds around on my ground at the moment - don't know why, but I hear from others that Cambs is a bit desolate in that way at the moment. Not really. The extra "down range energy" as you put it will be a piddly amount. More likely is that his gun holds a nice pattern with them cartridges and he gets a consistent 3-4 pellets on a bird. U :-( Thanks, Underdog, for your interesting observations above. Gives me an idea about how to improve a piece of software I wrote once that is basically a pattern generator. Work the model one stage back from pellets leaving the muzzle to start with a spheres packing algorithm and see how the pellets sit in / fly down the tube. Could be very interesting. Not sure how realistic the results would be though... As it stands, I'm picking up the gun tomorrow and it's going to be a couple of boxes of Hull High Pheasant with the traditional ounce of #6 to start with. If they work, I'll stick with them. If not, I'll try something else. Probably the #7 in the same load. Thanks all for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well, yup, but even if I do that, I still need a good cartridge to use with it don't I, or there won't be any shots, speculative or otherwise. And anyway, they're a lot less speculative when they connect, which they often do, and that's the difference between going home with a bird for the pot and not. Not many birds around on my ground at the moment - don't know why, but I hear from others that Cambs is a bit desolate in that way at the moment. Thanks, Underdog, for your interesting observations above. Gives me an idea about how to improve a piece of software I wrote once that is basically a pattern generator. Work the model one stage back from pellets leaving the muzzle to start with a spheres packing algorithm and see how the pellets sit in / fly down the tube. Could be very interesting. Not sure how realistic the results would be though... As it stands, I'm picking up the gun tomorrow and it's going to be a couple of boxes of Hull High Pheasant with the traditional ounce of #6 to start with. If they work, I'll stick with them. If not, I'll try something else. Probably the #7 in the same load. Thanks all for your input. You whizz kids today ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 eley vips are sweet in my old 16g.......6/7s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 soz op did not read your post well....of the 2 would go Hull high pheasant v sweet cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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