wildrover77 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 When FMJ is fired at low velocity how does it perform? Does it loose stability and tumble when it strikes?I am planning to use .338 FMJ fired at 1200 FPS for foxing. I am currently working an the advice that it will tumble on impact, causing a lot of damage, perhaps bouncing around inside, rather than go straight through.Any knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Shock from that lump hitting old charlie is pretty well sure to tip him over. I would be concerned about ricochet potential. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 When FMJ is fired at low velocity how does it perform? Does it loose stability and tumble when it strikes? I am planning to use .338 FMJ fired at 1200 FPS for foxing. I am currently working an the advice that it will tumble on impact, causing a lot of damage, perhaps bouncing around inside, rather than go straight through. Any knowledge? would prob group like poo if other low velocity centre fire projects i've read about are anything to go by. which county you in bud? take it were talking 338 lapua. can't see my county granting that to shoot foxes over land on a open ticket ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) The fmj will actually be tougher bud at that velocity than if it were going three times that velocity. It will zip through fox and the results will be about the same as I have found with fmj, hit and miss! Through the ribs and they are dead but they will run first! They work better loaded backwards! Edited October 4, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Have a look at casting your own in lead if doing low velocity, cast boolits are good, rather than using fmj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Just get a proper fox caliber with expanding ammo and forget the idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I've often thought of something similar maybe a pistol calibre rifle. My foxing is a bit specialized as its on a farm with ducks and geese in outside pens and sometimes it would be an advantage to shoot through long grass or a wire fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I better explain more. The rifle I have is in .338 whisper, it is design for subsonic loads, with the correct twist rate. It is also quieter than an air rifle which is why I have it. It is granted for fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I better explain more. The rifle I have is in .338 whisper, it is design for subsonic loads, with the correct twist rate. It is also quieter than an air rifle which is why I have it. It is granted for fox. Cool.You could go soft lead cast, they would bump up a little on anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Surely 1200fps isn't subsonic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 It won't stay in a fox that's pretty much sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Depends on the transitional and terminal velocity. Any bullet (not just FMJ) loses stability in flight when passing into and through the transition between super and sub sonic. If terminal velocity is subsonic, your biggest concern will be hitting what you aimed at beyond a certain range as accuracy will not be great. Close up, not a problem. I would question the ethics of using FMJ on live quarry also, as it is primarily designed for penetration (high sectional density) and target use, not for live quarry. You might be better as has been mentioned using soft lead pointed ammo. It wont expand as much as with faster loads but should still be more humane and expend more energy. Better to load subsonic from the get-go rather than at 1200fps. Load for 1050 to 1100fps and you'll get better accuracy (supersonic is anything 1125fps and above). Just my tuppenceworth. Edited October 4, 2015 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Would hollow points be any better ? Providing they grouped of course.and if you can get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Depends on the transitional and terminal velocity. Any bullet (not just FMJ) loses stability in flight when passing into and through the transition between super and sub sonic. If terminal velocity is subsonic, your biggest concern will be hitting what you aimed at beyond a certain range as accuracy will not be great. Close up, not a problem. I would question the ethics of using FMJ on live quarry also, as it is primarily designed for penetration (high sectional density) and target use, not for live quarry. You might be better as has been mentioned using soft lead pointed ammo. It wont expand as much as with faster loads but should still be more humane and expend more energy. Better to load subsonic from the get-go rather than at 1200fps. Load for 1050 to 1100fps and you'll get better accuracy (supersonic is anything 1125fps and above). Just my tuppenceworth.My findings are that too much is made of the transitionalmoment betwixt superand sub sonic.I also did very well with fmj in 357 magnum. Conversely I have had supposed expanding bullets fail repeatable to expand! The notion of a bullet tumbling in a victim is not to be overlooked or over played! A bullet really does not have time to tumble in a small animal but just the slightest of yaw will have dramatic effect on the organs. This is seen often in the difference of one airgun pellet over another for taking of animals, with next to no expansion available a yawing pellet usually does better. Solid bullets are also used on large dangerous game. U 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) I can only speak as I've found myself UD. I have only tried velocity experiments with WMR and 22LR at various distances and came to the conclusion that velocity was the limiting factor for accuracy based on group sizes I encountered. That was for bullets of comparatively low BC, and in fairness I haven't tried it with bullets of higher BC but would expect the same mechanisms to be at play. The differences in accuracy were significant though from what I found which is why I don't use supersonic LR (when silent subs at closer ranges are far preferable) and why I limit wmr to supersonic range use. I don't however think it's right under any circumstances to use FMJ on live quarry. Solid bullets are used for some large game only because lots of penetration is required and sufficient energy expended in those particular cases. The same is not true of small game, where the bullet may or may not yaw and tumble. I've seen small game shot through and run on when shot with non expanding ammo (not by me I hasten to add) and that's not a sight I want to see. Edited October 5, 2015 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I can only speak as I've found myself UD. I have only tried velocity experiments with WMR and 22LR at various distances and came to the conclusion that velocity was the limiting factor for accuracy based on group sizes I encountered. That was for bullets of comparatively low BC, and in fairness I haven't tried it with bullets of higher BC but would expect the same mechanisms to be at play. The differences in accuracy were significant though from what I found which is why I don't use supersonic LR (when silent subs at closer ranges are far preferable) and why I limit wmr to supersonic range use. I don't however think it's right under any circumstances to use FMJ on live quarry. Solid bullets are used for some large game only because lots of penetration is required and sufficient energy expended in those particular cases. The same is not true of small game, where the bullet may or may not yaw and tumble. I've seen small game shot through and run on when shot with non expanding ammo (not by me I hasten to add) and that's not a sight I want to see. Fair enough bud,thanks ☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Its a 338 bullet its bigger in diameter than an expanded .22 most likely and carries a lot of terminal energy. One thing it wont fail to do even with FMJ is kill a 14 lb fox! I think its kind of dumb personally and yes something of a ricochet risk that's going to be a blighter to get shooting right BUT IT WILL KILL WHAT IT CONNECTS WITH tumble or not its a big hole and a lot of cavitation will occur even on a straight pass through. At 1000 fps you wont get a 338 bullet that is frangible enough to expand anyhow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) All true . Personally, I still wouldn't load for 1200fps muzzle velocity. Edited October 5, 2015 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 To be fair my well moderated. 22 hornet is easier to shoot and kills any within 200 for no real noise of mrntion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Fmj, sub sonic loaded backwards. Subsonic 308 soft point (no expansion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) U, I have just been using some .223 subsonic. With the mod it is nearly as quite as the .22lr. Perfectly accurate at 50-60 metres. Wouldn't want to use it at much further range. Edited October 5, 2015 by Fisheruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangBangNik Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Fmj, sub sonic loaded backwards. Subsonic 308 soft point (no expansion). Apologies if this is a stupid question, but why seat the bullet backwards?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Not stupid at all, to impart more shock bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Apologies if this is a stupid question, but why seat the bullet backwards?? It becomes a wad cutter and shocking blunt instrument . Deadly on small game . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangBangNik Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Not stupid at all, to impart more shock bud. It becomes a wad cutter and shocking blunt instrument . Deadly on small game . Harnser Makes sense, cheers Edited October 8, 2015 by BangBangNik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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