Gordon R Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I think that lead bullets kill more humans than ingested lead shot. Perhaps we should start with the armed forces and suggest they use an alternative. About time some of these weak minded idiots got a sense of proportion. Edited October 27, 2015 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Engineer Posted October 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 A selfish question - is my beloved MK70 Miroku steel shot proof? I can't see a fleur de lis on the barrels.... Gordon - a sense of perspective is clearly difficult when the author/s and co are on a crusade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 So frustrating; am at work on phone and the printed type im the article you've posted is too small for me to read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Immediate action deferred Music to my ears! I would like to read the full article though. Edited October 27, 2015 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Engineer Posted October 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 So frustrating; am at work on phone and the printed type im the article you've posted is too small for me to read Immediate action deferred Music to my ears! I would like to read the full article though. I have the pdf of the newsletter containing the article. Is there a way to post that up? I'm happy to email it to members if they give me their email address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks to receiving a PDF from the Engineer I've read the article he's posted, and have to conclude it is indeed very one sided with absolutely no opposing points of view put across whatsoever. Doesn't read good from a shooting point of view at all. Our shooting organisations should be all over this like a rash, but........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Engineer Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks to receiving a PDF from the Engineer I've read the article he's posted, and have to conclude it is indeed very one sided with absolutely no opposing points of view put across whatsoever. Doesn't read good from a shooting point of view at all. Our shooting organisations should be all over this like a rash, but........ I have passed the article to the BASC north team and asked what they are doing about it and similar articles. I will let you know if they respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Thanks to receiving a PDF from the Engineer I've read the article he's posted, and have to conclude it is indeed very one sided with absolutely no opposing points of view put across whatsoever. Doesn't read good from a shooting point of view at all. Our shooting organisations should be all over this like a rash, but........ Agree entirely Scully. Here is the review. Hopefully others will find it large enough to read. Many thanks to The Engineer. http://www.nigelar.clara.net/Web_Internet/October-2015%20page10&11.pdf Edited October 29, 2015 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Just in case anybody is remotely interested here's a bit of background on Mr Avery. http://markavery.info/home-2/about/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think that lead bullets kill more humans than ingested lead shot. Perhaps we should start with the armed forces and suggest they use an alternative. About time some of these weak minded idiots got a sense of proportion. Gordon, rather than the armed forces, perhaps a start could be made in Manchester ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 So, if lead is so harmful, perhaps United Utilities could explain why they are still supplying water through LEAD pipes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Agree entirely Scully. Here is the review. Hopefully others will find it large enough to read. Many thanks to The Engineer. http://www.nigelar.clara.net/Web_Internet/Immediate Action Deferred.pdf +1 It is very worrying from the viewpoint that this man still has the ear of some influential policy makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Westley - right on both posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 It's disgusting the amount of lead piping still in use. Something should be done about this. Let's not forget all the lead flashings put on our buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 It's disgusting the amount of lead piping still in use. Something should be done about this. Let's not forget all the lead flashings put on our buildings. Obviously no ****** where you live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I too read this report via "Linkedin" this morning, I was saddened and annoyed by the sensationalist approach, to seriously suggest that 10,000 kids are at risk is complete nonsense, are these kids going to be queueing up outside clay shooting grounds on their way to and from home to eat handfuls of dirt in the lead shot fall out zone....I think not..? Also, how can it be proved that birds ingest lead shot over arable land, surely this is "case not proven"..? Having said all that, how can it be that other nearby Countries, (namely Belgium & Holland), possibly Germany too, (although I'm not sure), have now banned lead shot on pretty much all of their clay shooting grounds..? What do they know that we don't, or are we sadly misinformed..? Just like the Engineer, I work in the Construction Industry and virtually every site I look at is contaminated to some degree from previous usage. The old fashioned remedy involved excavating and removing all of the contaminated soil to special landfill sites, however this is now becoming prohibitively expensive and other methods are now employed to "blend" the contaminants with surrounding subsoils in order to reduce the overall contamination levels down to acceptable levels. This whole topic smacks of yet another overkill in the "Health & Safety" debate that is constantly being rammed down our throats..? I'm not sure the Engineer will agree with me on this one, but at the risk of going "off topic", (for which I apologise), another "scaremongering" tactic is the increasing insistence upon UXO surveys on all new construction sites, it really now borders upon the ridiculous..! As Developers looking to re-develop a "Brownfield" site in the London area, we are now obliged to employ a "specialist" company to undertake first a desktop survey, then, in most cases, an on-site physical survey to establish whether there are any unexploded WW1 or WW2 devices still present on the site. Of course these Guys turn up, find diddly squat, then issue a report that says whilst they have found nothing, it doesn't mean that UXO is not present, so due care should be taken whilst excavating. What they conveniently don't mention in their report is the fact that there has never been a single incidence of fatality due to a WW1 or WW2 device having exploded during Construction operations in the UK. Construction workers today have more chance of being killed or injured by a falling meteorite than they have by UXO, so why don't we employ a team of "meteorite watchers" on every building site to spend all day gazing up into the skies..? What is the World coming to..?? Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Unless you intend to chew your lead pipes you are of no danger from water pipes Gorden and Wesley. Lead is not soluable in water so not a serious problem. Its a different story when it gets ground up in the gizzard of a bird or given the right soil chemstry. Edited October 28, 2015 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 or given the right soil chemstry Lots of statements trying to link lead with food, but nothing positive, can you elaborate, & are you saying there is defiantly a link to the human food chain.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Simple solution if you don't want to eat game shot with lead.....don't! No one is forcing you!.......If you don't feel comfortable feeding game shot with lead to your kids then don't!......it's all about personal choice and personal freedoms......the governments responsibility regarding any toxic materials in the environment is to minimise or eliminate them where it is proven beyond dispute to be detrimental to human health and the population has no choice.....I am a responsible grown up and can make my own decisions....... I don't need an anti shooting bird protectionist charity to push the government to make that decision for me!............What's it got to do with them? Right or wrong the use of lead shot over wetlands has been banned throughout the UK in compliance with the AEWA for some years, allegedly in order to protect an unknown and unproven number of wildfowl from dying through ingestion of lead shot, I say allegedly as I have seen no scientific proof of the numbers of wildfowl killed by lead shot prior to the ban......likewise I have seen no scientific proof of any increase in numbers of wildfowl indisputably due to the lead shot ban! We do not need further legislation based on supposition, theory and protectionists anti shooting agendas, we need decisions made on indisputable scientific evidence, where there is no such evidence the status quo should be preserved. BASC's declared position is just this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Joe, I did not mention any link between lead and the human food chain. The following extract explains what I was meaning. To read more here is the link. http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/doc/library/articles/lead_levels Not all of the lead in the soil is available to plants (or to the human body, should the soil be eaten). The availability of soil lead depends on how tightly it is held by soil particles and on its solubility (how much of it will dissolve in water). At low soil pH (pH <5.0, acidic conditions) lead is held less tightly and is more soluble. At near neutral or higher soil pH (pH >6.5, neutral to basic conditions) soil lead is held more strongly, and its solubility is very low. Lead is held very tightly by soil organic matter, so as organic matter increases, leadavailability decreases. Some lead added to soil may combine with other soil elements to form lead-containing elements. One such mineral that has extremely low solubility is lead phosphate (pyromorphite). Formation of this element is favored by high soil pH and high levels oflead and phosphate, conditions that would occur with the application of ground agricultural limestone and large amounts of phosphate fertilizer to a lead-contaminated soil. The most serious source of exposure to soil lead is through direct ingestion (eating) of contaminated soil or dust. In general, plants do not absorb or accumulate lead. However, it is possible for some lead to be taken up into the plant if the soil tests high in lead. Studies have shown that lead does not readily accumulate in the fruiting parts of vegetables and fruit crops (ie corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, etc). High concentrations are more likely to be found in leafy vegetables and on the surface of root crops. There are stacks of papers on the subject. follow this link for a few . http://search.aol.co.uk/aol/search?s_it=chstrip&query=lead+dissolve+soils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Unless you intend to chew your lead pipes you are of no danger from water pipes Gorden and Wesley. Lead is not soluable in water so not a serious problem. Its a different story when it gets ground up in the gizzard of a bird or given the right soil chemstry. I found this http://www.hakluyt.com/PDF/Battersby_Franklin.pd f interesting after watching a programme on TV . Edited October 29, 2015 by BlaserF3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Joe, I did not mention any link between lead and the human food chain. No Probs Anser2, I thought that's what you were implying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael170874 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 It's not the lead you need to worry about *** there's more **** in your food ie antibiotics in your chicken,pork,lamb,beef,etc,iodine mercury and other toxins in your tuna,hormones in your eggs,milk,gluten ascorbic acid etc in bread acid nitrates in your bacon artificial sweeteners in drinks lol all proven to cause cancer ,diabetes,hormone imbalnce leaky gut etc etc .then theres the GMO foods TOXIC is one word lol and they are crying over a few tons of lead over the whole of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 But the ducks don't eat that **** unless we throw throw it to them in the village pond. I think what you are saying is that hang the problems the ducks have (largely sorted through lead shot being banned from the foreshore, rivers and ponds) we need to rid the world of much bigger pollutants! Well said sir.Thank you and rest easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 But the ducks don't eat that **** unless we throw throw it to them in the village pond. I think what you are saying is that hang the problems the ducks have (largely sorted through lead shot being banned from the foreshore, rivers and ponds) we need to rid the world of much bigger pollutants! Well said sir.Thank you and rest easy. +1 If the anti-shooting lobby wish to use children in their cynical campaigning, then perhaps they should join the one to cut back sugar consumption. Sugar is one of the big enemies of children's health (obesity, tooth decay, early forms of type 2 diabetes) yet rather conveniently, this and all the other real culprits (of which there are many) are being somewhat disgustingly over-shadowed by "made up health scares" which are in reality, fictitious non-issues with little or no evidence to back them up. It's ok for us as a shooting community to pat ourselves on the back about the truth and real perspective, but to become complacent is the real danger. The RSPB, WWT and others spear-heading the current campaigns have so far pushed the issue well onto the radar of government departments that it isn't likely to drop off that radar any time soon. Despite all the promises that the status quo will be maintained and "business as usual" by some of the shooting organisations, I can't help feel that the point has been somewhat missed. To bury the issue effectively, it has to be comprehensively discredited, not left for the antis to come up with whatever inaccurate statistics to suit their own political purposes as is their want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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