Sean Richo Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Also the way the advert is worded is wrong it's like they are trying to convince farm owners to get rid of their current shooters to give BASC the permission. It's enough to put off any farmer to let anyone shoot on the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) If it causes established shooters to lose their permissions then it is wrong. And there will be pushy townie club secretaries that think they have a mandate from BASC to do it. Edited November 23, 2015 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have not as yet seen the advert, so I cannot comment on its content. In David's replies I have not seen any mention of anyone being charged, yet here is repeated mention of BASC making money. Has anyone of the concerned parties that have commented on this scheme contacted the NFU, it is a joint scheme, what have they had to say?. I do not see how an established shooter would lose their permission; if the Farmer has phoned BASC then surely he has a problem. Is the established shooter doing what has been asked or expected? At the moment there does not appear to a clear answer to the concerns raised, this needs to be addressed urgently, only then can a judgement be soundly made. David has never let us/PW down in the past, always honest, straight and helpful, let us wait for his answer. Yes, before anyone accuses me of being on BASC's side, I do a lot of work for and with BASC, and I would like to know more about this scheme, and I will make it my business to find out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have not as yet seen the advert, so I cannot comment on its content. In David's replies I have not seen any mention of anyone being charged, yet here is repeated mention of BASC making money. Has anyone of the concerned parties that have commented on this scheme contacted the NFU, it is a joint scheme, what have they had to say?. I do not see how an established shooter would lose their permission; if the Farmer has phoned BASC then surely he has a problem. Is the established shooter doing what has been asked or expected? At the moment there does not appear to a clear answer to the concerns raised, this needs to be addressed urgently, only then can a judgement be soundly made. David has never let us/PW down in the past, always honest, straight and helpful, let us wait for his answer. Yes, before anyone accuses me of being on BASC's side, I do a lot of work for and with BASC, and I would like to know more about this scheme, and I will make it my business to find out more. As you work closely with the BASC I'm surprised they have not mentioned the scheme to you. Of course BASC are not themselves charging for the scheme, no one has ever suggested that they are. What is concerning is the fact that if BASC push and help in setting up regional pigeon shooting "Clubs", akin to their Wildfowling clubs, it will eventually become a necessity for those who enjoy a bit of pigeon shooting to become a member of such a club. Joining such a club will, without doubt, be subject to a membership fee (what club doesn't have one) and the inevitable oversubscription and waiting list. I can see why BASC would propose and implement such a scheme. It's another plus for their members and encourages people to join, However, what I don't agree with, as I said earlier, is the way they word their advert in which they say. "We are aware that on many farms pest control is not carried out as well as some farmers would like". Note the use of the word MANY. Speaking as a farmer, be it now retired, and a shooter, I can think of nothing worse than letting a "club" look after my pest control needs. What I do like is one or two local chaps with whom I have built up a relationship and trust implicitly to do the job for me. In over 50 years of working my farm, individuals have never let me down, but hey ho, perhaps I should take note of BASC warning that MANY and from that I presume they mean most, farms are let down. Interestingly, I phoned my local NFU office and they knew nothing about the scheme ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 If you fall for this claptrap,All the shooters who shoot now will be picked off one by one.. They WANT CONTROL of ALL Shooting,and licences to allow you to shoot.. If they insist on going down this route, give them the heav ho to show your displeasure.. They have done it with the Wildfowling clubs, They recon you wouldn t have any wildfowling at all if it wasn t for them, Yer right... Look at what has been written,, write to all the farmers, and offer service, Let me tell you they already have a service, its called pidgeon shooting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 But they are charging for it . Its called membership I doubt it will be long before the rumer starts going around within the new shooter circles . " ohh i will join basc cose then i can get some pigeon shooting " Sorry but in IMO its nothing more than a membership gaining scheme . That will be fruitless and promises NOTHING . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I don't see the point in your unwarranted personal attack on me lloydi73, claiming my post was hot air and waffle...its how the system works and has been working. What makes some of you think that BASC members in the area or BASC clubs in the area are townie plonkers who know nothing about the countryside? Why oh why is it so shocking that a shooting organisation is trying to help its members to get and retain shooting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Because David, You have not addressed the questions asked....You at BASC are trying to dictate who can and can't shoot on what land, and it is inevitable as others have said, that this "service" you claim to provide will be without substantial cost, whether it be membership fees, insurance fees vetting fees call it what you will, but a payable remuneration will be required, and who can argue with an organisation the size of BASC.....You are trying to monopolise and police pest control...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Why oh why is it so shocking that a shooting organisation is trying to help its members to get and retain shooting? What is shocking David is your orgaination wording it's advertisment to farmers ............"We are aware that on many farms pest control is not carried out as well as some farmers would like" I'm afraid, to me at least, the subtle and deliberate use of the word many has been specifically chosen to sow doubt in farmers minds, and therefore by default, only BASC sponsored pest control groups are reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 What makes some of you think that BASC members in the area or BASC clubs in the area are townie plonkers who know nothing about the countryside? Being a member BASC affiliated clubs for nearly 50 years, and WAGBI(remember them?) before that, might have something to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) soon you will be required to do a PSC1 Course Edited November 23, 2015 by andrewluke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 As you work closely with the BASC I'm surprised they have not mentioned the scheme to you. Of course BASC are not themselves charging for the scheme, no one has ever suggested that they are. What is concerning is the fact that if BASC push and help in setting up regional pigeon shooting "Clubs", akin to their Wildfowling clubs, it will eventually become a necessity for those who enjoy a bit of pigeon shooting to become a member of such a club. Joining such a club will, without doubt, be subject to a membership fee (what club doesn't have one) and the inevitable oversubscription and waiting list. I can see why BASC would propose and implement such a scheme. It's another plus for their members and encourages people to join, However, what I don't agree with, as I said earlier, is the way they word their advert in which they say. "We are aware that on many farms pest control is not carried out as well as some farmers would like". Note the use of the word MANY. Speaking as a farmer, be it now retired, and a shooter, I can think of nothing worse than letting a "club" look after my pest control needs. What I do like is one or two local chaps with whom I have built up a relationship and trust implicitly to do the job for me. In over 50 years of working my farm, individuals have never let me down, but hey ho, perhaps I should take note of BASC warning that MANY and from that I presume they mean most, farms are let down. Interestingly, I phoned my local NFU office and they knew nothing about the scheme ! What i find more amazing is that with no vetting then all you need is a BASC membership and you suddenly become more capable than those that were maybe not doing it right in the first place. Probably worth joining just to become an overnight expert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Answer me this lloydi - How can BASC dictate who can shoot on land, simply by asking farmers who do not currently have sufficient pest control cover on their land to get in touch? Explain where you think the 'substantial costs' will be? Charlie - this info came from contacts at the NFU, apologies thought I had mentioned that earlier Sako, as I have repeatedly said, but some of you choose to ignore, if the incumbent shooter(s) are doing a good job...then they are not going to loos their shooting are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Answer me this lloydi - How can BASC dictate who can shoot on land, simply by asking farmers who do not currently have sufficient pest control cover on their land to get in touch? Explain where you think the 'substantial costs' will be? Charlie - this info came from contacts at the NFU, apologies thought I had mentioned that earlier Sako, as I have repeatedly said, but some of you choose to ignore, if the incumbent shooter(s) are doing a good job...then they are not going to loos their shooting are they? You are getting confused David,i havent chose to ignore or even mention Incumbent shooters who are doing a good job losing their shooting. However,i find it hilarious you can actual use the word "ignore" and keep a straight face on this thread so if you will actually manage to answer the question regarding vetting as i will highlight in the three/3 posts that you really did choose to ignore amazingly seem to have not noticed then that would be spiffingly good. If there will be no vetting just say,no vetting. If there is no vetting,do you not think its a bit silly that you could be putting shooters in place that are not fit for purpose? Many thanks in advance,and keep up the great work. What i find more amazing is that with no vetting then all you need is a BASC membership and you suddenly become more capable than those that were maybe not doing it right in the first place. Probably worth joining just to become an overnight expert! No problem from me as if the farmers need help then its an easy way for them to get someone onto the ground. I would ask again what vetting BASC are going to do with a member before he/she gets onto the scheme to make sure they are suitable to do a better job than those that have maybe failed the landowner in the past?Is the criteria just going to be a BASC membership and if so that could be a very poor plan?? Will BASC be vetting the members who will be doing the scheme as surely they they could be as guilty as the ones already doing the pest control where it is "not carried out as well as some farmers would like"? Hopefully BASC will run lots of course to make the members aware of all duties needed to be effective. Edited November 23, 2015 by sako751sg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Answer me this lloydi - How can BASC dictate who can shoot on land, simply by asking farmers who do not currently have sufficient pest control cover on their land to get in touch? Explain where you think the 'substantial costs' will be? Charlie - this info came from contacts at the NFU, apologies thought I had mentioned that earlier Sako, as I have repeatedly said, but some of you choose to ignore, if the incumbent shooter(s) are doing a good job...then they are not going to loos their shooting are they? David, BASC will dictate by forming a cartel of "BASC Shooting Clubs" in all areas and persuade farmers to only use this service.....Hence you then control who can shoot what and where.....as with Cartels, an economy of scale will form as economics dictate, therefore. as shooting becomes more scarce with 1000's of desperate shooters left land and shoot hungry, BASC will charge a ridiculously absorbently high membership!! Does this answer your question?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 David, BASC will dictate by forming a cartel of "BASC Shooting Clubs" in all areas and persuade farmers to only use this service.....Hence you then control who can shoot what and where.....as with Cartels, an economy of scale will form as economics dictate, therefore. as shooting becomes more scarce with 1000's of desperate shooters left land and shoot hungry, BASC will charge a ridiculously absorbently high membership!! Does this answer your question?!? Oh you old cynic you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sako, my apologies, all BASC members are treated in the same way - and there will be no special vetting when members form a club. All members though are expected to abide by our codes of practice and all members are subject to BASC's disciplinary process should they bring BASC or shooting into disrepute. I hope this answers your point about vetting, if not let me know. However, I have repeatedly said that if the incumbent shooter(s) is doing a good job the farmer will not look elsewhere will they? And no one yet has managed to find anyone who has lost their shooting due to this BASC activity... lloydi - you have crated a prophecy with no evidence just wild speculation, do you think that BASC has created a cartel of shooting clubs to cover all other aspects of inland shooting? No? Well where does your pigeon cartel come from , apart form your imagination? OK so some may say BASC has control over wildfowling..but do wildfowling club members pay more to BASC than individual members (as you suggest BASC would do...) no, they pay LESS...the facts prove you wrong, please accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tollerman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I would not worry too much about this "new BASC incentive".I seem to remember them pushing this idea a few years ago .The two clubs I am with both signed up hoping for additional shooting and to date have never heard a thing.Most farmers still like to know exactly who is shooting over their land and would not be happy with strangers sent via BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sako, my apologies, all BASC members are treated in the same way - and there will be no special vetting when members form a club. All members though are expected to abide by our codes of practice and all members are subject to BASC's disciplinary process should they bring BASC or shooting into disrepute. I hope this answers your point about vetting, if not let me know. However, I have repeatedly said that if the incumbent shooter(s) is doing a good job the farmer will not look elsewhere will they? And no one yet has managed to find anyone who has lost their shooting due to this BASC activity... lloydi - you have crated a prophecy with no evidence just wild speculation, do you think that BASC has created a cartel of shooting clubs to cover all other aspects of inland shooting? No? Well where does your pigeon cartel come from , apart form your imagination? OK so some may say BASC has control over wildfowling..but do wildfowling club members pay more to BASC than individual members (as you suggest BASC would do...) no, they pay LESS...the facts prove you wrong, please accept that. Pefect answer,thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have to say some of the comments to David in this thread are nothing other than ill mannered. The NFU have highlighted an issue that some farmers, maybe many farmers or maybe just a tiny handful of farmers, have an issue with pest control, they got together with BASC to offer a no cost option to farmers to use BASC to find shooters to help address their issue. If as some are suggesting that no farmers actually have a problem then no one will phone BASC. If some farmers do have a problem they might phone BASC, this may or may not cure their problem. If BASC are approached they will contact members local to the farmer and this may give an opportunity of pest control shooting to those members, if BASC are not approached then they won't contact any shooters. If a farmer is not sure about whether they have a problem or not then they may still phone BASC and they might think that is a better option or they might not. Throughout all of this the theme is the same, it is the choice of the farmer. It was their choice to mention it to the NFU, it will be their choice whether to phone BASC and it will be their choice whether to do something with BASC. I really cannot see a Machiavellian plot by BASC anywhere in all of this, they reacted to a problem highlighted to them by the NFU with a solution which is in the interest of their members, that is what they are supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have to say some of the comments to David in this thread are nothing other than ill mannered. The NFU have highlighted an issue that some farmers, maybe many farmers or maybe just a tiny handful of farmers, have an issue with pest control, they got together with BASC to offer a no cost option to farmers to use BASC to find shooters to help address their issue. If as some are suggesting that no farmers actually have a problem then no one will phone BASC. If some farmers do have a problem they might phone BASC, this may or may not cure their problem. If BASC are approached they will contact members local to the farmer and this may give an opportunity of pest control shooting to those members, if BASC are not approached then they won't contact any shooters. If a farmer is not sure about whether they have a problem or not then they may still phone BASC and they might think that is a better option or they might not. Throughout all of this the theme is the same, it is the choice of the farmer. It was their choice to mention it to the NFU, it will be their choice whether to phone BASC and it will be their choice whether to do something with BASC. I really cannot see a Machiavellian plot by BASC anywhere in all of this, they reacted to a problem highlighted to them by the NFU with a solution which is in the interest of their members, that is what they are supposed to do. Davids comment to me was rather ill mannered but he did apologise and i forgave him so we are happy as Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have to say some of the comments to David in this thread are nothing other than ill mannered. The NFU have highlighted an issue that some farmers, maybe many farmers or maybe just a tiny handful of farmers, have an issue with pest control, they got together with BASC to offer a no cost option to farmers to use BASC to find shooters to help address their issue. If as some are suggesting that no farmers actually have a problem then no one will phone BASC. If some farmers do have a problem they might phone BASC, this may or may not cure their problem. If BASC are approached they will contact members local to the farmer and this may give an opportunity of pest control shooting to those members, if BASC are not approached then they won't contact any shooters. If a farmer is not sure about whether they have a problem or not then they may still phone BASC and they might think that is a better option or they might not. Throughout all of this the theme is the same, it is the choice of the farmer. It was their choice to mention it to the NFU, it will be their choice whether to phone BASC and it will be their choice whether to do something with BASC. I really cannot see a Machiavellian plot by BASC anywhere in all of this, they reacted to a problem highlighted to them by the NFU with a solution which is in the interest of their members, that is what they are supposed to do. Couldn't agree more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Davids comment to me was rather ill mannered but he did apologise and i forgave him so we are happy as Larry. You both have good manners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Where are these clubs so some of us can try to join one for some shooting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Costs/Charges NFU £0.00 BASC members £0.00 Non-members £72.00 pa BASC Full membership £72.00 pa If a club is formed £11.00 rebate on membership As a BASC member the cost to you is, -£11.00, yes –minus £11.00 If you are doing what the Farmer asks, the Farmer will not phone BASC he has no need Who vets people going on to farms now to shoot? I have only been vetted the once. So where is the problem? Edited to read correctly, "saving £11.00" Edited November 23, 2015 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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