So much for a fair referendum then

[Rewulf]

I can answer the last question (as an EU migrant): I can work here and have a decent living standard. (Not claiming any benefits, never did, last 12 yrs). Can't do the same over there.

 

And there is nothing wrong at all with what you have done,I would do it myself.

Many migrants have a work ethic that puts the British to shame.

Others have no work ethic,and are here for our lax and generous benefit system,and we have plenty of home grown layabouts who take advantage of it too.

 

But when Cameron asked for benefits to be delayed to new migrants for 4 years (stating that this was a prerequisite for his 'deal ' to keep us in the EU) he was TOLD this would not happen.

Psyxologos insinuated that the EU doesnt really dictate to us about our laws and regs.

So how could they possibly tell us what we can pay in benefits to EU migrants ?

 

Well they can,they do, and they will continue to do so as long as we remain a member of the bloc.

[rjimmer]

Who owns RBS?

[grrclark]

Really? How much has the tax payer paid (some of whom were RBS employees) and how much have RBS paid in taxes (various), fees, fines etc?

 

Do your own research rather than Daily Mail sound bites.

 

And my point was that the UK's finance industry doesn't just benefit London. Although that is the perception.

 

The U.K. Finance industry isn't as pro Europe as some imagine. A lot don't care. It's the uncertainty that causes more problems.

Indeed, it seems there is probably a 50:50 split within the finance industry around EU membership, largely reflecting the popular opinion too.

 

Going by the FT and some opinion polling that they have carried out in that community.

 

AVB, to echo your points, the level of hysteria and inaccuracy amongst some of those who criticise the banking industry based on tabloid soundbites is staggering.

[AVB]

Who owns RBS?

Yawn. The shareholders. Your point is what?

[old man]

What has actually happened in recent years (since the EU Gestapo took charge) is that we get various new laws proposed in our Parliament that breeze through masquerading as English (or British) law that are nothing other than EU diktats passed down from the führer's in Brussels.

And unfortunately for us this has allowed over 40 years our dim wit politicos to do nothing for their money and additionally to blame someone else?

 

I really enjoy the cultural differences in Europe but have no desire to be governed in any way by anyone not elected?

Edited January 13, 2016 by old man

[Vince Green]

About 40+ years ago there was a documentary on TV where somebody asked a women in an African country why she wanted to go to Britain. "Because you have the Welfare state". Was her answer.

Katie, a Bulgarian cleaner who I have known professionally for a couple of years brought her mother over here to have major heart surgery on the NHS just before Christmas and once she has had it she will be going back. It does happen, its not an urban myth

[rodp]

I think you would be surprised. How many people do RBS (as an example) employ outside of London? And, surprisingly, Deutsche Bank (who are building their capacity in Birmingham).

I wouldn't mind betting that £ for £ of turnover the likes of Jaguar Land Rover employ far more staff than any bank.

[AVB]

I wouldn't mind betting that £ for £ of turnover the likes of Jaguar Land Rover employ far more staff than any bank.

Maybe but I am not sure the relevance. And you could argue that JLR only benefits the area around where they are made. Now that is not true but so is the argument that the finance industry only benefits London. It doesn't.

[Vince Green]

Billions of pounds of foreign transactions pass through London every day, we are talking about international clearing not what we would think of as normal banking. When money passes between countries for what ever reason it goes via London because London is a trusted middle man. Its not just about the earnings its about the status that London has on the world stage.

 

Insurance is the same

 

Financial Services in 2014 earned just a little under £130 Billion for the UK economy from abroad. Thats massive,

Edited January 14, 2016 by Vince Green

[Psyxologos]

 

Psyxologos insinuated that the EU doesnt really dictate to us about our laws and regs.

 

No, I did not. All I did was present you with one of the very few (to my knowledge, anyway) systematic and organised approaches on finding out where the laws, acts etc come from. If you read the article carefully it actually says that pinning it down to a certain percentage is next to impossible (for all the reasons it explains). The reason I linked to the article is to add to the debate a voice other than the scaremongering that the EU has replaced national law and 'we need to take our country back' and other bull spewed by sensationalists, scaremongers and people with nefarious interests in spreading fear. That's all...

[Paul223]

Billions of pounds of foreign transactions pass through London every day, we are talking about international clearing not what we would think of as normal banking. When money passes between countries for what ever reason it goes via London because London is a trusted middle man. Its not just about the earnings its about the status that London has on the world stage.

 

Insurance is the same

 

Financial Services in 2014 earned just a little under £130 Billion for the UK economy from abroad. Thats massive,

Indeed

[Nial]

 

Do you happen to know what the UK exports, by any chance? Or what the import/export ratio is? I would very much like to know.

 

We import far more from the rest of the EU than we export, no solid figures I'm afraid.

[rjimmer]

Yawn. The shareholders. Your point is what?

The major shareholder being us.

[Psyxologos]

 

We import far more from the rest of the EU than we export, no solid figures I'm afraid.

 

Exactly. Unfortunately the UK has in the last few decades turned into an import Economy. Same goes for most of Europe, bar for a few niche areas in each country.

[Rewulf]

 

No, I did not. All I did was present you with one of the very few (to my knowledge, anyway) systematic and organised approaches on finding out where the laws, acts etc come from. If you read the article carefully it actually says that pinning it down to a certain percentage is next to impossible (for all the reasons it explains). The reason I linked to the article is to add to the debate a voice other than the scaremongering that the EU has replaced national law and 'we need to take our country back' and other bull spewed by sensationalists, scaremongers and people with nefarious interests in spreading fear. That's all...

 

'Just to bring some facts to this debate, perhaps you care to read this. Now feel free to go back to emotion laden paranoia.'

 

Thats what you said originally ,did you not?

 

You say you want to put some balance to the debate,so you quote from an obviously pro EU website.

 

' Scaremongering that the EU has replaced national law ' You said.

Well hasnt it already done so ,and tried to do more ?

Votes for prisoners?

Forced immigration quotas?

Forced financial bail outs?

Proposed changes to our firearms laws?

Ridiculous environmental laws and directives that cost British businesses billions?

 

Take our country back?

Hopefully we havnt lost it..yet.

And if you think that everyone who thinks that we should leave the EU to its own mess is a 'sensationalist scaremonger with nefarious interests '

I think you need to again, take the blinkers off and try and see the other side of the argument.

[AVB]

The major shareholder being us.

And what does that mean? What does it matter that the Government (as a proxy for the uk taxpayers) are majority shareholders of RBS in respect of how many people RBS employ and where? I don't get where you are coming from. Please enlighten me.

[rjimmer]

And what does that mean? What does it matter that the Government (as a proxy for the uk taxpayers) are majority shareholders of RBS in respect of how many people RBS employ and where? I don't get where you are coming from. Please enlighten me.

The Government is the majority shareholder because RBS had to be bailed out. Have they made a taxable profit since? Please enlighten me.

[BrowningB525]

The Government is the majority shareholder because RBS had to be bailed out. Have they made a taxable profit since? Please enlighten me.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34674586

[Psyxologos]

 

You say you want to put some balance to the debate,so you quote from an obviously pro EU website.

 

 

Everything that does not spread fear is 'pro European' in your books, I guess...

 

Read the 'about us' page, especially that of who the trustees are, who their funders are, who sits on their board, their credentials and their history and then think again.

 

I think it is you who needs to take the blinkers off...

Edited January 14, 2016 by Psyxologos

[poontang]

 

 

 

Read the 'about us' page, especially that of who the trustees are, who their funders are, who sits on their board, their credentials and their history and then think again.

 

 

You're kidding right?

 

A bunch of ex Tory donors, Lib Dems and Labour peers. Nearly all of whom have worked for the either the Guardian, The Times or The Mirror, the EU or the BBC. One of them was Nick Clegg;s strategic advisor in 2007!!

 

Yeah, I can see how balanced their stats might be.

 

I would agree with you that there is a fair bit of scaremongering about the issue from both sides. The BBC, Sky, Ch4 and the press are next to useless when it comes to reporting on EU matters, unfortunately it's through these outlets that most people seem to get their information and where their views are formed.

If anyone really wants to understand the EU, its principles and its aims, then I would suggest reading up on its history and its reason for being. Only then will you begin to understand the demise of British industry, the erosion of state sovereignty and the huge influx of foreign nationals.

Most information can be found on the EU's own websites and transcripts of speeches from past and present 'players'.

 

The EU never was about free trade. It is, and was, always about power.

[Nial]

> > We import far more from the rest of the EU than we export, no solid figures I'm afraid.

Exactly. Unfortunately the UK has in the last few decades turned into an import Economy. Same goes for most of Europe, bar for a few niche areas in each country.

 

The German, French, Italian and Spaish car makers, French farmers, Italian pasta makers (?) etc can't afford to lose our market.

 

They need us more than we need them, so they can't afford to impose trade barriers.

 

I'm a bit sceptical when people say trade deals would magically be concluded very quickly (nothing happens quickly) but I

do think we'd end up with free trade with the rest of the EU.

 

If Mexico can negotiate it I'm sure we would be able to.

[rjimmer]

Mikhail Gorbechev: "The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe."

[Rewulf]

 

You're kidding right?

 

A bunch of ex Tory donors, Lib Dems and Labour peers. Nearly all of whom have worked for the either the Guardian, The Times or The Mirror, the EU or the BBC. One of them was Nick Clegg;s strategic advisor in 2007!!

 

Yeah, I can see how balanced their stats might be.

 

 

 

Im not sure whether Psyxologos believes the people who run full Full Fact are impartial,somehow I doubt it.

 

You see,I dont buy into the 'sensationalist,scaremongering people with nefarious interest' thing.

The main stage is occupied by the 'stay in ' camp,most of the mainstream media,the prime minister and his 'in' followers,Labour,the Liberals ,and most importantly of all, 99% of the EU,who will do everything in their power to MAKE us stay.

So who has the 'nefarious' aims,who profits most from staying?

What does Farage and UKIP gain from Brexit ?

The only reason the 'out' campaign has any stage space at all is because our laws say they must.

 

If the pro EU camp want to believe that anyone who wants to get out of the whole mess is a knuckle dragging ,Doc Martin wearing,skinhead racist,or the modern equivalent,they need to put the Guardian down,and maybe go out and see whats really happening to this country.

Its not scaremongering ,its real.

[AVB]

 

Im not sure whether Psyxologos believes the people who run full Full Fact are impartial,somehow I doubt it.

 

You see,I dont buy into the 'sensationalist,scaremongering people with nefarious interest' thing.

The main stage is occupied by the 'stay in ' camp,most of the mainstream media,the prime minister and his 'in' followers,Labour,the Liberals ,and most importantly of all, 99% of the EU,who will do everything in their power to MAKE us stay.

So who has the 'nefarious' aims,who profits most from staying?

What does Farage and UKIP gain from Brexit ?

The only reason the 'out' campaign has any stage space at all is because our laws say they must.

 

If the pro EU camp want to believe that anyone who wants to get out of the whole mess is a knuckle dragging ,Doc Martin wearing,skinhead racist,or the modern equivalent,they need to put the Guardian down,and maybe go out and see whats really happening to this country.

Its not scaremongering ,its real.

Too many Lords and Professors on that panel for my liking.

[Jaymo]

Do people really believe that an 'Out' vote will mean that the UK suddenly becomes a major industrial nation who dis-allows all immigration and reforms all its laws?

 

Think again, apart from the Financial changes and possible major implications for the UK in doing so I can't see a great deal of change.

But then again if you wish for your weekly shop, new car orwhat ever to go up then continue to think of voting out.

If on the other hand you wish to keep your 'permissions' on farms that are no longer receiving EU subsidies and are no longer economically viable to continue as farms then vote 'No'

 

Obviously I'm over simplifying the situation as there are so many variables to be taken into account- I can only go on studies and projections relating to the Finacial world due to some family in the 'industry' so as to speak.

 

For me personally- already in this last week as someone who lives overseas but is paid in Sterling I have seen a 10% reduction in my spending power, which for us means the weekly shop has just shot up, my mortgage has shot up etc

With this trend likely to hit in the UK, ask yourself if you can afford it?

It's not just National pride that's at stake but you personally ( btw your foreign holiday has just risen as I'm typing this)

 

Right, that's me off of my Soap box