Doctors Letters - Rip Off Charge

[andrewluke]

i sent in my renewal forms back in november 2015 as my shotgun/fac is due for renewal today(14th march),received a letter on the 12th march stating that i need a letter from doctors because i declared a medical condition which i suffered in 2007,i had renewed my shotgun cert and was granted fac in 2011 but they still want the doctors letter which i will have to pay,contacted BASC and they told me that i will need to pay the costs myself!!

[Scully]

There you go. 😊

[paulnix]

Cost my father £35 and myself 2 months later £17, for doing the same thing, also the doc who did mine I never seen of heard of in my surgery and she isnt named on the list of doc's in there, FEO told me that docs were charging the police £125-£175 a form so that's when they started getting us to foot the bill also in most cases the reason for a hold up is them not doing the paperwork in my case they had it for 6 weeks and when I chased them up they said it's done just needs to be printed off, 3rd time I told them to ******* well print it off as i'm on the way in to pick it up. sent it to my local FEO on tuesday, SGC renewal and FAC grant on doormat on saturday.

[NickP]

to update, i paid the doctors my money and they sent the letter directly to the police, I didn't hear anything further so rang them the other day, to ask, as my cert was expiring that day, told it was with sent to someone (not sure who to get their final approval) and a tempory cert been received today, till they decide

[robbiep]

I see that the system (who is responsible for the costs of the doctor's fee) has been sorted out - hopefully.

I suppose we will see once April rolls around !

 

http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2016/03/Firearms-licensing-medical-process-fact-sheet.pdf

[mossy835]

they just dont want us to have guns do they

[andrewluke]

I see that the system (who is responsible for the costs of the doctor's fee) has been sorted out - hopefully.

I suppose we will see once April rolls around !

 

http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2016/03/Firearms-licensing-medical-process-fact-sheet.pdf

so who should pay for a doctors report before april 1st??,my renewal date was the 14th march and i had i letter from firearms dept on the 10th march(i put my renewal forms in at the end of november) asking for a doctors report and that i had to pay the doctor for it,

[norfolk dumpling]

This really p****s me off. Why do we even have to pay to have a licence? Who does it benefit - not us we, or at least 99% of us, are the most law abiding bodies on the planet. We have the lowest conviction rate (criminal and summary offences) of any sector of society. Our sport is the safest in terms of both death and serious injury and the politicians etc subject us to a huge level of intrusion just so that they can say we are licenced. A huge wast of money. And when an atrocity occurs it is always because the coppers have screwed up and we suffer!

[Les*1066]

The system will be changing from April 2016:-

 

https://westmercia.police.uk/media/7867/Medical-Fact-Sheet/pdf/Medical_Fact_Sheet.pdf

[kaunda]

Surely this should have been made available to us through the Assocciations,not a forumite from Runcorn ! If we have to pay for this procedure I for one will be copying the letter accompanying my cheque to the Inland Revenue for their consolidation into the GP's file.

[Les*1066]

Surely this should have been made available to us through the Assocciations,not a forumite from Runcorn ! If we have to pay for this procedure I for one will be copying the letter accompanying my cheque to the Inland Revenue for their consolidation into the GP's file.

 

I wish I could claim credit for finding it, but I stole it from another site.

[oowee]

Where a medical report is needed because the applicant has declared a medical condition on the application form – the applicant will pay the fee.

[andrewluke]

Where a medical report is needed because the applicant has declared a medical condition on the application form – the applicant will pay the fee.

will they have to pay for a medical report at every renewal if they have declared a medical condition,i had a medical condition in 2007,when i renewed my shotgun cert and applied for fac in 2011 i declared my medical condition and heard nothing more of it,my renewal for both certs were due on the 14th of march,i had a letter on the 12th march saying that i had to get a medical report because i mentioned the medical condition i suffered in 2007 and i would need to cover the costs??,i have suffered no medical conditions since 2007.

[Scully]

will they have to pay for a medical report at every renewal if they have declared a medical condition,i had a medical condition in 2007,when i renewed my shotgun cert and applied for fac in 2011 i declared my medical condition and heard nothing more of it,my renewal for both certs were due on the 14th of march,i had a letter on the 12th march saying that i had to get a medical report because i mentioned the medical condition i suffered in 2007 and i would need to cover the costs??,i have suffered no medical conditions since 2007.

 

That remains to be seen. I'm not sure it's all been well thought out really, nor am I convinced the police really care that much either way. It relies entirely on not only the applicant being honest but also visiting their GP to seek help for any condition which may well see their certificates revoked, which is probably why the police are pushing for compulsory GP's reports for ALL applicants, regardless of whether they have declared a condition or not. Some licensing authorities have already tried this approach even with those who have nothing to declare.

The fact of the matter is that following more than one high profile example of police inaction leading to fatalities, the priorities of the police are more concerned with not being held accountable above any and all other other matters.

The BMA have for a long time been reluctant to sign up to this policy for much the same reason, but one can only assume this issue has now been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties which have now reached an agreement between themselves and the HO where neither can be held responsible for the actions of an applicant.

It would make much more sense and be much more proficient, if on renewal, applicants such as you or I simply had to sign a declaration stating that their medical history hadn't changed since last renewal, but then again, without the GP's contribution towards verifying that, we're back to the applicants honesty and where we were prior to this latest change.

Alternatively, how difficult or expensive can it be for a licensing authority to email an applicants GP with a 'has this person sought medical attention for any condition which would render them unfit to possess since last renewal?' and the GP to reply with another email stating 'no'. We aren't to be trusted, it's as simple as that.

I'm not against a compulsory GP's report, but I am entirely against the applicant having to foot the bill, as yet again, what is the purpose of the licensing process and who does it benefit? It certainly isn't the applicant.

Like I said, it remains to be seen. I'm up for renewal this year; I'll let you know.

[LeadWasp]

How much, if any of this is, actually laid down in law and how much is down to the privilege of the Chief Constables to interpret/apply certains laws as they see fit. It seems to be an arrangement between the aforementioned parties and the BMA rather than a change to a specific act. In which case surely there must be a mechanism to resist a unilateral imposition? I would be interested to see if BASC have a comment - perhaps if David BASC reads this.

 

It's not so much what they are doing as the cost implication. Fees have recently been raised, and we are required to pay a fee to go through licensing and vetting (which is why we have one of the best safety records in the world) but now we are being required to pay top up fees.

[Scully]

Don't worry, our shooting organisations will sort it out! 😂

[LeadWasp]

I knew as I posted that you would BASC bash......................

 

They're all we've got so why not stand for Council if you don't like how they do things?

Edited March 27, 2016 by LeadWasp

[Scully]

Whoops....I never mentioned BASC. I mentioned 'organisations' , plural. Me joining the council of any of them wouldn't alter their effectiveness one iota; none have any meaningful clout in matters such as this.

[andrewluke]

How much, if any of this is, actually laid down in law and how much is down to the privilege of the Chief Constables to interpret/apply certains laws as they see fit. It seems to be an arrangement between the aforementioned parties and the BMA rather than a change to a specific act. In which case surely there must be a mechanism to resist a unilateral imposition? I would be interested to see if BASC have a comment - perhaps if David BASC reads this.

 

It's not so much what they are doing as the cost implication. Fees have recently been raised, and we are required to pay a fee to go through licensing and vetting (which is why we have one of the best safety records in the world) but now we are being required to pay top up fees.

i contacted BASC when i had i letter from firearms department asking for a doctors letter and that i would be responsible for payment,BASC told me to pay up!

[mossy835]

at one time basc were telling people not to pay,now there are saying we have to pay,we are being walked all over,

[sitsinhedges]

at one time basc were telling people not to pay,now there are saying we have to pay,we are being walked all over,

 

Just use your BASC membership fee to pay the doctors fee instead.

[David BASC]

Dear All,

 

This is al part of a bigger picture, As of April 1 this year, not only will the forms change, but GPs are being asked to place an encoded reminder onto an applicant’s medical record to prompt doctors to consider notifying the police of health concerns which may affect firearms possession.

 

The changes are in response to recommendations initially tabled by coroners, medical professionals and the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

 

BASC, however, fought to allow Essex Police to run a successful pilot of the scheme which has ultimately been adopted; this involved more than 7,000 firearms licence holders and suggested GPs in fact needed to be consulted in fewer than two per cent of applications.

 

BASC, the UK’s largest shooting organisation with a membership of over 144,500, considers this new process will take shooting a step closer to 10-year certificates.

BASC had always opposed plans to introduce a compulsory scheme which forced applicants to complete a self-declaration medical form before submitting it to their doctor with a fee.

 

In turn, the GP was expected to amend or corroborate the information, place an encoded reminder on the patient record, then forward the form to the police. BASC fiercely resisted this proposal as wholly disproportionate.

Edited March 29, 2016 by David BASC

[panoma1]

"GPs needed to be consulted in less than 2% of applications"..............knowing how the police usually work how soon will it be 100%? And what will BASC do when it starts heading that way?

[Scully]

Dear All,

 

This is al part of a bigger picture, As of April 1 this year, not only will the forms change, but GPs are being asked to place an encoded reminder onto an applicant’s medical record to prompt doctors to consider notifying the police of health concerns which may affect firearms possession.

 

The changes are in response to recommendations initially tabled by coroners, medical professionals and the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

 

BASC, however, fought to allow Essex Police to run a successful pilot of the scheme which has ultimately been adopted; this involved more than 7,000 firearms licence holders and suggested GPs in fact needed to be consulted in fewer than two per cent of applications.

 

BASC, the UK’s largest shooting organisation with a membership of over 144,500, considers this new process will take shooting a step closer to 10-year certificates.

BASC had always opposed plans to introduce a compulsory scheme which forced applicants to complete a self-declaration medical form before submitting it to their doctor with a fee.

 

In turn, the GP was expected to amend or corroborate the information, place an encoded reminder on the patient record, then forward the form to the police. BASC fiercely resisted this proposal as wholly disproportionate.

 

I'm not really sure what quoting membership numbers has to do with this, but yes, this process will take shooting a step closer to 10 year certificates ( if the EU allows it ) but the fact remains this isn't a victory hard fought by shooting organisations. Shooting organisations can dress this up any way they choose, but there is no victory here.

The 10 year certificate will only become reality as a compromise AFTER the police have achieved their ultimate goal of compulsory GP's reports for ALL applicants, ( and it still may not happen ) regardless of whether that applicant has a reportable relevant health condition or not.

As I've said before, I have it on good authority from a senior BASC representative that this is 'going to happen, and there's nothing we can do about it'.

 

So to all you shooters thinking this is ok 'cos it doesn't effect me', it eventually will, including the cost, which in turn will be yet another financial obstacle for new blood to negotiate.

Increased fees, GP's reports ( at whatever price they choose seemingly ) and anywhere up to a 12 month certificate turnaround. Happy? 'Course I am.

[David BASC]

Evidence that this will go up to 100% is where?

 

Evidence that if the shooting organisations and BASC in particular doing what we did achieved nothing and alternative (ie BASC doing nothing at all) would have been better is where?

 

Evidence that a 10year certificate will only arrive when compulsory medical check are on every application and renewal is where?

 

Evidence of current 'senior BASC representative' i.e. last 12 months is where?

 

Making sweeping statements is pretty pointless.