Camerons dad and his off shore tax haven

[SNS]

Actually I have my own LTD company, and yes I use it to PAYE myself, and to take dividends and so on, in a 'tax efficient' way, if possible. I still pay a LOT of taxes. WAY more taxes than the megacorps who play the 'double irish duch sandwitch' like google and fecebook.

 

People think that it's just for tax avoidance, but it's not the case, not everyone is a footy or a megacorp -- in my case it's because I work with quite a few clients as consultant; and they can't possibly put me on their payrolls, so I invoice them. And I use the LTD also as a front for a small consultancy, so I can hire from a poll of people I could need for a project -- again, I wouldn't put them on MY payroll for the same reason, because it's like 1 month to 6 months.

 

Beleive it or not, the work market is changing, the days of 'permanent employee' is pretty much over in quite a few lines of industries, and you need to adapt to it.

 

Personally I like it, I feel like a mercenary, I can hop on/off projects without having to deal with the (often toxic) company subcultures, and I can choose when/if I want my holidays etc without having a petty minded boss to deal with.

Given Googles recent agreement to pay £130m in back taxes in the UK then I take my hat off to you Sir, you sure have been paying a lot of tax. You should get yourself a decent tax adviser !

[Thunderbird]

he will be paying as much tax as possible

Aye, that he will

[keg]

I'm enjoying this one, second box of popcorn!

[norfolk dumpling]

Daily Mirror today names a few more Celebs who may be using Panama: Simon Cowell, Dutchess of York, Sir Nick Faldo, Andy Cole, Willian etc etc. There is the usual disclaimer ie '....no suggestion (yet?) these individuals have done anything wrong' but of course we will all condem them even though were we to have a few millions we would of course look for ways to mitigate our tax liabilities wouldn't we PW users?

[buze]

So you are in simple terms a hypocrite. You critisised Cameron's father for legally playing the game and avoiding tax and you admit you have done the same thing (via dividends). The only difference is he did it a different way for larger amounts.

 

No, I don't remove money from this country, it's all *entirely in my name* I make absolutely no attempts at /hiding my revenues/ behind a company that is under an assumed name in an offshore tax heaven.

 

I'm taking dividends because it's *my* damn company, and I'm taking all the risks, don't have pension, paid holidays and so on -- and it's all in my name. My wife and dog aren't listed anywhere as beneficiaries. My home is under my name, not an offshore company.

 

How you can compare what I do to Cammy's Dad is a wonder. I know, tory brainwash and all that, but try to be real for a little bit. It's pretty unbelievable that even when he sticks his **** in a pig mouth you'll still find someone to defend it as completely acceptable.

[norfolk dumpling]

Dear oh dear this is all getting a little silly. Dad Cam no doubt like thousands of others was only doing what he could, legally, to mitigate tax liabilities. He no doubt got caught up in the super tax (80/90%?) of the 60/70's when this sort of thing commenced. All us old guys knew of this - we just didn't know who did it, when, how much etc etc. I'd be very surprised if any of the close network that is Tory heartland had no knowledge or involvement. Let's just get on with this and move on.

[Scully]

I'm no Tory fan but just wondering why all this is being laid at Camerons doorstep, really. Hasn't this been going on for decades? Hasn't this been going on through the years of both Labour and Tory rule; through the reigns of all party leaders such as Thatcher, Major, Blair and Gordon Bennett?

Unless I'm mistaken, this Tory government has done more than any other to close down on legal tax avoidance.

[Hamster]

 

No, I don't remove money from this country, it's all *entirely in my name* I make absolutely no attempts at /hiding my revenues/ behind a company that is under an assumed name in an offshore tax heaven.

 

I'm taking dividends because it's *my* damn company, and I'm taking all the risks, don't have pension, paid holidays and so on -- and it's all in my name. My wife and dog aren't listed anywhere as beneficiaries. My home is under my name, not an offshore company.

 

How you can compare what I do to Cammy's Dad is a wonder. I know, tory brainwash and all that, but try to be real for a little bit. It's pretty unbelievable that even when he sticks his**** in a pig mouth you'll still find someone to defend it as completely acceptable.

 

Hi Buze,

 

Just to say some of us completely understand the difference between good people such as yourself and the filth that stash away millions/billions bypassing due process of FAIR taxation . Your money is of course quickly ploughed back into the economy, "theirs" lies largely dormant in comparison, it is there to stow power and buy influence the term is velocity of money and is the cause of much of the economic ills we face.

 

Tax avoidance is the legalised mechanics of tax evasion the rich influence governments to ensure loop holes are in place to steal money. This is fact, if governments the world over wanted to close such loop holes, they could do so in days.

[oowee]

I'm no Tory fan but just wondering why all this is being laid at Camerons doorstep, really. Hasn't this been going on for decades? Hasn't this been going on through the years of both Labour and Tory rule; through the reigns of all party leaders such as Thatcher, Major, Blair and Gordon Bennett?

Unless I'm mistaken, this Tory government has done more than any other to close down on legal tax avoidance.

Exactly right our Dave has done a pretty good job on this. I think we all would like to see it stamped out (apart from the avoiders) but it is so difficult to do.

[toontastic]

Millions of savers legally avoid paying tax by investing in an ISA,let's go after them

[Hamster]

Millions of savers legally avoid paying tax by investing in an ISA,let's go after them

 

ISA tax benefits aren't loopholes.

[AVB]

 

No, I don't remove money from this country, it's all *entirely in my name* I make absolutely no attempts at /hiding my revenues/ behind a company that is under an assumed name in an offshore tax heaven.

 

I'm taking dividends because it's *my* damn company, and I'm taking all the risks, don't have pension, paid holidays and so on -- and it's all in my name. My wife and dog aren't listed anywhere as beneficiaries. My home is under my name, not an offshore company.

 

How you can compare what I do to Cammy's Dad is a wonder. I know, tory brainwash and all that, but try to be real for a little bit. It's pretty unbelievable that even when he sticks his in a pig mouth you'll still find someone to defend it as completely acceptable.

I am sure you are running your company in a perfectly legal way. Some people may question the morals of you taking dividends rather than a salary to reduce your tax liability. I am not.

 

What Cameron's father did was legal when it was setup and many aspects of it are still legal today. Again some people, you being one of them, question the morality of this. I do not.

 

I just find it hypocritical that you attack his legal tax structure but defend you own legal tax structure.

 

You see where I am coming from.

 

This has nothing to do with defending Cameron. I don't like Simon Cowell but if he has taken sensible steps to reduce his tax liability so what.

 

The focus should be on people who have used offshore structures to hide illegal gains (such as the Brinks Matt robbery) and not just bashing people who are richer than you (and me).

[MrM]

The focus should be on people who have used offshore structures to hide illegal gains (such as the Brinks Matt robbery) and not just bashing people who are richer than you (and me).

Exactly. The problem is that these tax rules were set up by governments and very quickly highly paid accountants worked out to use them to their clients best interests. If we feel jealous about the people who use them, campaign to get them changed - but that is I'm afraid far easier said than done.

Edited April 7, 2016 by MrM

[Hamster]

Just because it's legal doesn't make it moral, there IS a difference and you should be able to see that difference. Using accountants expert advice is done by all business owners who ultimately still end up paying a huge percentage of their earnings as tax, circa 20% to 40% regardless of whether it is taken as dividends or monthly salaries.

 

The issue here is that governments and the mega rich are colluding together to bypass almost any tax, how anyone can fail to see the difference is beyond me. Amazon, FB, Google, etc, aren't paying enough in comparison to their earnings, that money is then stowed away in tax havens and not recirculated back into the economy (from which it was taken in the first place) please tell me you can see that ?

 

If we all set up off shore accounts (legally) the whole economy would collapse, that is the point. Legality is a matter of power and collusion, not what is right or just.

[panoma1]

Hi Buze,

 

Just to say some of us completely understand the difference between good people such as yourself and the filth that stash away millions/billions bypassing due process of FAIR taxation . Your money is of course quickly ploughed back into the economy, "theirs" lies largely dormant in comparison, it is there to stow power and buy influence the term is velocity of money and is the cause of much of the economic ills we face.

 

Tax avoidance is the legalised mechanics of tax evasion the rich influence governments to ensure loop holes are in place to steal money. This is fact, if governments the world over wanted to close such loop holes, they could do so in days.

 

Agreed! Men/women make laws, powerful/rich people use their power and wealth to influence/circumvent those laws to suit their own interests, so tax laws are set up to facilitate tax avoidance for the rich and powerful, but to stop the ordinary man/woman doing so!.....so the only way ordinary people can get their share is to not declare extra income (fiddle).....so it's been made legal to avoid paying tax if your rich and powerful but it's illegal to avoid paying tax if your an ordinary joe?

This is unlikely ever to change as the powerful/rich will always use their power and wealth to benefit themselves.......unfortunately this is human nature.........ask yourself honestly...........if you could do it? Would you?

On the other hand Integrity and morals come from within they are not man made, you either have em (and follow em!) or you don't!

Edited April 7, 2016 by panoma1

[toontastic]

 

ISA tax benefits aren't loopholes.

But an ISA and a pension are both ways of reducing tax liabilities, I can't afford either so I'm bashing the scum that choose these legal options to avoid paying tax.

[buze]

Just for everyone entertainment. A little reminder that even the government dodges it's 'taxes' by doing that PFI idiocy.

 

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/a-reminder-that-hmrc-actually-rents-its-hq-from-a-company-registered-in-a-tax-haven--bJ2PgGt9eZ

[Hamster]

But an ISA and a pension are both ways of reducing tax liabilities, I can't afford either so I'm bashing the scum that choose these legal options to avoid paying tax.

 

The ISA type of legal figures we're talking about wouldn't buy you a decent car, fact, they are a savings mechanism openly promoted by the government. Tax loopholes are discreet ways of NOT paying tax on billions, if there was nothing sly about them, their exposure wouldn't be such big news. The difference is the amounts involved are staggering plus one does pay tax at source and doesn't need to hide it under different names.

 

Isn't it funny when so many were bashing the Greeks about being the cause of their own downfall by not paying tax now all of a sudden since it's legal it's OK.

[MrM]

....so it's been made legal to avoid paying tax if your rich and powerful but it's illegal to avoid paying tax if your an ordinary joe?

 

Not at all - it's illegal if you EVADE tax, not avoid. Anyone whether rich or poor are perfectly entitled to avoid paying tax using current tax rules.

[panoma1]

Not at all - it's illegal if you EVADE tax, not avoid. Anyone whether rich or poor are perfectly entitled to avoid paying tax using current tax rules.

From the Concise Oxford Dictionary

 

Evade = escaped from, avoid

 

Avoid = escape, evade

 

Man made law conveniently differentiates......truth, morals and integrity doesn't!

[AVB]

The problem with the moral compas is that it is all relative.

 

I pay 47% effective (the average) tax rate on my income. That works out to be a **** load of money. Now I could criticise anybody who pays a lower rate. But that would be jealousy kicking in.

 

How much is morally acceptable? 0%, 10%, 20%, 50%?

 

And none of you know how much tax David Cameron's father paid on his TOTAL income. The only people that know that are him (RIP) and HMRC. There is focus on what he didn't pay via the use of offshore structures but nothing on what he did pay. That doesn't sell newspapers.

[panoma1]

May be simplistic but.........I believe If everyone in this country paid say 15/20% of their total income (and I mean total income.......and everyone!) in tax, then assuming the money was managed properly? this country could pay of its debts and once done could easily balance the books, VAT and duty etc could be reduced and everyone would have a well resourced NHS, police, schools and social and public services and a better life!

Billions of pounds in tax avoidance and other legal scams prevent this happening.........who's to blame?

[achosenman]

I'd love to pay 20% tax on my total earnings. Unfortunately it's closer to 50%.

 

Until they ban cash I don't see how they can get everyone to pay.

 

Atb

[Bazooka Joe]

when he sticks his d*ck in a pig mouth you'll still find someone to defend it as completely acceptable.

 

 

..."all in it together springs to mind"

[MrM]

From the Concise Oxford Dictionary

 

Evade = escaped from, avoid

 

Avoid = escape, evade

 

Man made law conveniently differentiates......truth, morals and integrity doesn't!

 

Sorry probably should have made it clearer :

 

tax avoidance

noun

noun: tax avoidance

1. the arrangement of one's financial affairs to minimize tax liability within the law.

tax evasion

noun

noun: tax evasion

1. the illegal non-payment or underpayment of tax.

The law doesn't change depending on the amount of money you have.

 

All these companies and individuals (incl Cameron's father) are/were allegedly operating under the first definition.

 

Unfortunately there is no legislation in there for morality - that is a whole different issue!

Edited April 7, 2016 by MrM