Wildfowl Fighting Fund

[Guttersnipe]

I've got a hypothetical question for you, which whilst informed by recent events is not directly related to any specific club or situation.

 

The WHT offers the opportunity to wildfowling clubs to borrow money to secure shooting/sanctuary habitat, this is then paid back with interest. These funds are limited and my belief is that this pot is currently empty having already been utilised for the purpose it was intended. However that means that should a club find itself in a position where it needs to re-secure its leases and has limited funds or a direct threat from a conservation body, there is a real risk that shooting rights are lost, unlikely to ever be returned.

The obvious common denominator for the majority of wildfowling associations is their affiliation with BASC, over 140 clubs currently pay their club memberships to the organisation. As such I see an opportunity for a centralised managed solution to what i believe will be an ever increasing problem.

If every club were to simply commit that, if called upon by BASC, they would fund up to £1000 as a loan to a central fund, to be repaid at the 3% WHT rates, this would instantly give huge security to the majority of clubs. The risk would be spread and thus minimised, the same way Lloyds insurance works, whilst being of benefit to the wider wildfowling community.

 

Often when its needed, its too late for a single committee to be approaching another individual club asking for a large loan, understandably clubs are beholden to their members and must protect any assets. This £1000 commitment, as that is all it would be, no one parting with any money without a specific BASC request, could be approved at a clubs AGM so the committee could quickly act if required. In any auction, knowing you have contingency funds to draw upon in addition to those of the club, puts you in a far stronger position.

 

On this forum there are representatives from across the country belonging to different clubs and the general consensus seems to be that if "wildfowlers don't help each other no one else will" so i thought this may just be an opportunity to put our money where our mouth is.... Any of us might just need that help one day.

 

Particularly interested in any of the BASC reps opinion on the feasibility of this proposal.

[Footu]

Having recently been in this situation as a potential lending club I think it's a good idea. If it's land rather than rights at least there is an asset to protect the loan, so interest rates should be low.as a committee it's hard to approach your members and say we intend to offer your money out to another club in need, but I think the majority would do it.

[fenboy]

A good idea in principal , but how would it work if say a small club were fighting off Kent , given Mr Jarret's position at BASC

Perhaps better for all clubs to support the WHT via the duck stamp.

Edited April 8, 2016 by fenboy

[misser]

guttersnipe, glad you mentioned this post... ...you beat me to it...

[panoma1]

A good idea maybe needs developing.....but even if every BASC affiliated club joined in? what would 140k buy?

[nic]

A good idea maybe needs developing.....but even if every BASC affiliated club joined in? what would 140k buy?

 

14 acres plus, which so some clubs is a marsh or an area they can shoot over and thats at pasture or equine prices down south, move north and put it in say an area thats known to flood most years............

Edited April 8, 2016 by nic

[Footu]

It does not have to cover the whole amount, 140k may be the difference the top bid the club could make plus another 140 could well win an auction sale.

[harrycatcat1]

For no other reason but being curious what has spured you on to ask this question? (to the OP)

 

Regards

 

H

[scolopax]

Good idea, I think in general wildfowling clubs are supportive of each other and collectively have a reasonable cash reserve.

 

But whilst we are on the subject, what are the opinions of the WHT's grants to overseas projects? Is helping to protect a piece of wetland in Latvia (or wherever) really that beneficial to the wildfowling community in the UK? I cannot help thinking that it is money better spent at home.

[Guttersnipe]

Thanks for your responses - as said this would have to be centrally organised and is only the germ of an idea. I'll see if I can bend Mr Ali's ear next time we meet....

 

Harrycat, i'll send you a PM but it was hypothetical - "any similarity to real events is purely coincidental" as they say

 

regards GS

[greylag]

Having been in this situation recently and finding WHT coffers empty we were offered generous help from a fellow wildfowling club.It would make sense if there was a central war fund for clubs to tap into with fair interest rates.It would be interesting to find out what BASC thinks of such an idea.

[mudpatten]

As a rough yardstick of the likely degree of commitment and involvement from the general wildfowling community with some of the plans proposed above,shall we wait and see if we manage to get Allen Musselwhite elected to BASC Council this time round.

 

Last year Allen failed to get elected by a whisker when most of the wildfowling community not only failed to vote for him - but failed to vote at all.

 

Rather than pointlessly discussing these plans on Pigeon Watch, we should be discussing them in the BASC Council chamber, where with sufficient backing from wildfowling orientated candidates some of these great ideas might actually come to fruition.

 

You can still vote online in the BASC Council election if you have not already done so.

[harrycatcat1]

Having been in this situation recently and finding WHT coffers empty we were offered generous help from a fellow wildfowling club.It would make sense if there was a central war fund for clubs to tap into with fair interest rates.It would be interesting to find out what BASC thinks of such an idea.

 

I had not heard about the WHT coffers being empty, thats a sad state of affairs, BASC should be seriously thinking of how to resolve this situation asap in my opinion, or is this idea too simplistic?

I understand now what GS was hinting at if the WHT fund is empty

Regards

H

As a rough yardstick of the likely degree of commitment and involvement from the general wildfowling community with some of the plans proposed above,shall we wait and see if we manage to get Allen Musselwhite elected to BASC Council this time round.

 

Last year Allen failed to get elected by a whisker when most of the wildfowling community not only failed to vote for him - but failed to vote at all.

 

Rather than pointlessly discussing these plans on Pigeon Watch, we should be discussing them in the BASC Council chamber, where with sufficient backing from wildfowling orientated candidates some of these great ideas might actually come to fruition.

 

You can still vote online in the BASC Council election if you have not already done so.

 

Voted for Allen Musselwhite

[panoma1]

I had not heard about the WHT coffers being empty, thats a sad state of affairs, BASC should be seriously thinking of how to resolve this situation asap in my opinion, or is this idea too simplistic?

I understand now what GS was hinting at if the WHT fund is empty

Regards

H

 

Apparantly the WHT fund is depleted at the moment because of all the loans that have been made to Wildfowling clubs!

[mudpatten]

Guttersnipe previously mentioned bending Richard Ali`s ear the next time they meet.

 

Just to reinforce how important the elections to BASC Council are and how the system actually works it has to be said that Richard is the Chief Executive of BASC it is not his job to act upon any of the excellent ideas above.

 

His job is to execute what Council instructs him to do.

 

Lets not waste time talking to Richard about this, lets invest time in ensuring that we get someone on Council who can drive this type of idea forward.

 

It still not too late to vote on line in the BASC Council elections.

[panoma1]

Guttersnipe previously mentioned bending Richard Ali`s ear the next time they meet.

 

Just to reinforce how important the elections to BASC Council are and how the system actually works it has to be said that Richard is the Chief Executive of BASC it is not his job to act upon any of the excellent ideas above.

 

His job is to execute what Council instructs him to do.

 

Lets not waste time talking to Richard about this, lets invest time in ensuring that we get someone on Council who can drive this type of idea forward.

 

It still not too late to vote on line in the BASC Council elections.

Just like Swift did eh?

[rjimmer]

I once spoke to chap whose club had borrowed money to buy land, I think. He said they had got a cheaper deal from a local bank than WHT had offered them.

I wouldn't fancy letting Kent have a first charge on land to secure the loan.

[mudpatten]

I once spoke to a chap whose club had borrowed money from the WHT when no one else would lend it to them.

 

I think the last two posts above typify the problems faced by wildfowling today.

 

Many of it`s members are whipped before they even start.

 

It`s all too much trouble so why bother? Don`t vote, just sit back and watch the sport wither and die. Then some of us can relax and enjoy their favourite sport, no, not fowling, but online whingeing and whining.

[panoma1]

I once spoke to a chap whose club had borrowed money from the WHT when no one else would lend it to them.

 

I think the last two posts above typify the problems faced by wildfowling today.

 

Many of it`s members are whipped before they even start.

 

It`s all too much trouble so why bother? Don`t vote, just sit back and watch the sport wither and die. Then some of us can relax and enjoy their favourite sport, no, not fowling, but online whingeing and whining.

Ignoring the failures of BASC in the past and not learning from them typifies your problem, recognising them has nothing to do with any problems faced by Wildfowling today.

[Spaniel]

Personaly I feel that all wildfowling clubs in the uk should work together in any way possible to secure not just the land they already have but to secure additional land

Not sure what organisation would be best to hold a fund as mentioned by the op but the money would have to remain within the UK

Obviously there would have to be some method of applying and a system created regarding payments

[subsonicnat]

It has been said by me many times the stamp you pay on your basc fee's was what it was intended for,Poor suckers are still paying it and get nothing back but hot air,I have heard it..

There repayments are too expensive anyway for struggling clubs..

Most of the money was going abroad on things like pigeon flyways through Italy etc,,,Wonder if there are many left now, Was a con trick and still is..

[anser2]

BASCs habitat Trust Fnd has been used several times by my club. A few years ago we got were lent over £100,000 for a 60 acre marsh, but most of its been repayed now I think .

[Pushandpull]

The WHT was started about 30 years ago after a campaign by two Essex wildfowlers. The original structure was a bit shaky, and needed modification. It became the UK branch of Euroducks, which was to be like Ducks Unlimited but that died and the name is now used by a Citroen owners' group ! I have a Euroducks Supporter badge somewhere from my idealistic youth.

The fact that the coffers are empty means that the funds are out there working and more money is needed.

 

There has always been argument about how the money is used. The two major issues have been grants (which use up capital very fast), and overseas "flyway" projects. However most of the money raised has been used in this country. There will always be those who feel let down but the WHT has had to charge realistic interest rates to stay afloat.

 

However, it has facilitated many land acquisitions by wildfowling clubs and others, and I can not see that the comments by "subsonic nat" are fair or justified. I am a member of several wildfowling clubs, of which only one (Fenland WA) has a rule that members purchase a WHT stamp. The remedy for the OP might be to get along to the local club AGM and ask the chaps to stump up an extra £5 a head for a stamp. Best of luck with that one. Also there is artwork etc. to be purchased and I am sure individual donations are welcome.

 

Like BASC itself, the WHT is what we have so we have to make it work NOW as we want it to. This is achieved by due process as "mudpatten" has said. Hurling abuse at previous employees really doesn't help even if it makes one feel better.

[rjimmer]

We still pay the £5 conservation thing, but spend it locally. It was decided that we were never going to want to borrow from the WHT. No marsh locally to buy.

[panoma1]

The WHT was started about 30 years ago after a campaign by two Essex wildfowlers. The original structure was a bit shaky, and needed modification. It became the UK branch of Euroducks, which was to be like Ducks Unlimited but that died and the name is now used by a Citroen owners' group ! I have a Euroducks Supporter badge somewhere from my idealistic youth.

The fact that the coffers are empty means that the funds are out there working and more money is needed.

 

There has always been argument about how the money is used. The two major issues have been grants (which use up capital very fast), and overseas "flyway" projects. However most of the money raised has been used in this country. There will always be those who feel let down but the WHT has had to charge realistic interest rates to stay afloat.

 

However, it has facilitated many land acquisitions by wildfowling clubs and others, and I can not see that the comments by "subsonic nat" are fair or justified. I am a member of several wildfowling clubs, of which only one (Fenland WA) has a rule that members purchase a WHT stamp. The remedy for the OP might be to get along to the local club AGM and ask the chaps to stump up an extra £5 a head for a stamp. Best of luck with that one. Also there is artwork etc. to be purchased and I am sure individual donations are welcome.

 

Like BASC itself, the WHT is what we have so we have to make it work NOW as we want it to. This is achieved by due process as "mudpatten" has said. Hurling abuse at previous employees really doesn't help even if it makes one feel better.

No abuse has been "hurled" at previous employees of BASC, but if we don't remember and learn from previous events/experience then how can we avoid making similar mistakes/misjudgements in the future?