Male mums

[bostonmick]

 

You have referred to cross gender people in this thread as 'sexual deviants', 'freaks' and 'it'. You have also questioned how long it would be, given our tolerance of such people, before the age of consent is lowered and pedophilia was accepted as part of a tolerant society, and thereby insinuate the two as linked.

Regarding your post ( well done on inserting it into a post by the way ) referring to Cameron; he rejected outright any suggestion the age of consent should be lowered to 15. He REJECTED it MIck; understand? REJECTED. However don't be surprised at some point in the future if it is lowered; many girls are sexually active at 13, never mind 15. I often had sex with a 14 year old, but she didn't mind as I was 14 also.

If the age of consent is lowered to 15 or even 14, you do realise it will be enshrined in law and therefore not a slippery slope to pedophila, but quite legal......don't you?

Yes I do realise that if the age is reduced it will then be enshrined in law and of course that will make everything OK.strange how these perfectly normal people are not asking that 15 be the age for being able to drink or drive or to have the vote or in fact any of the everyday things that you are not allowed to do now.only for sexual purposes. But as you say no slippery slope in sight.

[secretagentmole]

Yes I do realise that if the age is reduced it will then be enshrined in law and of course that will make everything OK.strange how these perfectly normal people are not asking that 15 be the age for being able to drink or drive or to have the vote or in fact any of the everyday things that you are not allowed to do now.only for sexual purposes. But as you say no slippery slope in sight.

OK so you can have sex at 16 but not vote or drink until you are 18, oh and at 16 you can only get a moped license unless you are physically disabled, so no car to put the spouse and kid in, have to be the bus for 3 months assuming you could wait that long...

[Penelope]

Regarding your mention of identical twins, in many cases of identical twins one turns out to be gay.

 

 

Because it is for reasons of ignorant bigotry and intolerance such as his towards those who are gay, lesbian, bi or cross gender, and describing them as 'it' or 'sexual deviants' and outrageously asking if we are to accept pedophilia just because we should accept transgender, that has forced for generations such people to live with self loathing and fear in the belief that they are some sort of sub human species not worthy of acceptance by mainstream society. Some have killed themselves as a result. What threat or danger to other individuals and society in general do they pose to generate such a reaction? It isn't a disease; you can't catch gay.

I know two fathers who have disowned their sons because they turned out to be gay. I cannot fathom how much that must have hurt; when your Dad turns his back on you.

One father was even heard telling someone in the pub he only has one son, when in fact he has identical twin sons, but one happens to be gay. He moved away some years ago and i haven't seen him since. I think that is incredibly sad.

I can understand and accept intolerance of those who wish others harm, of whatever gender or sexual leaning, but discrimination such as this, based on ignorance, is beyond me.

[bostonmick]

OK so you can have sex at 16 but not vote or drink until you are 18, oh and at 16 you can only get a moped license unless you are physically disabled, so no car to put the spouse and kid in, have to be the bus for 3 months assuming you could wait that long...

I must admit to not really understanding the point of this reply.all I can see is that it reinforces my point that there are no calls for the lowering of any of the activities mentioned legal ages only the sexual one.am I the only one who can see the wrong in this if I am then I am happy to be that loner

 

Forgot to add you cannot have a spouse at 16 unless you gain permission from an Adult.

Edited August 5, 2016 by bostonmick

[islandgun]

Regarding your mention of identical twins, in many cases of identical twins one turns out to be gay.

 

thats an interesting statistic, is there any scientific theory for this ?

[Scully]

Regarding your mention of identical twins, in many cases of identical twins one turns out to be gay.

 

I want wasn't aware of that; interesting. The boys I mentioned were identical, and there are two sets of identical girls in town but they're all adolescents.

Twins run in my family, but none so far have been identical.

[Paddy Galore!]

Im not sure being transgender is a life style choice any more than being gay (as everyone on here clearly supports ) as an aside several sportsmen on here may suffer from deafness due to their hobby /lifestyle choice im hoping they dont expect the NHS to help them with that,

 

incidently good to see you back Paddy Galore

Hi I G!

the trans gender bit I can understand, but why after all that they've gone thru do they then want a child? surely they would've been better off having the child before the sex change? it's a messed up situation being made worse because of the moral implications, not to mention the financial costs.

and as for the squabbling on here, it's all so "Life of Brian"

[stephensedgwick]

I do not believe any sex/gender changes should be done on the NHS.already people are waiting for life saving operations and drugs are denied for some conditions because of cost.i feel this is just another chapter of this screwed up society that we are becoming and will say that in one way I am glad that the greater part of my life is past and I won't be around to witness some of the craziness that is bound to come in the future.i have a son in law who lost a knee in the forces he was then invalided out after being patched up by the military. Now he cannot work has to wear morphine patches to curb the pain yet they are not prepared to do reconstructive surgery due to cost.yet we can spend countless millions because some freak wants their bits altered.and there are many such cases in this country.reconstructive surgery after an accident or illness that's fine but for reasons of sexual deviation.never

I could not agree more

[Paddy Galore!]

I wouldn't call them freaks mick, they just might be a bit messed up in the head from people like you calling them freaks all the time.

[bostonmick]

 

I wouldn't call them freaks mick, they just might be a bit messed up in the head from people like you calling them freaks all the time.

I don't think calling them anything has messed their heads I believe that was already there.if a male believes he should be female and vice versa then treat that because they are what they are born as.but do not pander to this at a cost of many hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money while there are real conditions that people are dying of due to lack of resources and time delays in treatment partly down to time and money spent on this and other cosmetic surgery which is mainly vanity driven.that is my opinion and you will not change it the same as I will not change yours and others of like mind.

 

i will ask you a question that i asked others but got no reply at what age do you think it would be right to explain to the child of one of these sex swaps and how would the conversation likely go,

 

about fifteen years ago i knew a woman who had a son and lived with her family from when the child was born,the family kept the father away from the boy even going as far as moving home quite some distance.now the boy was told at about six years old his father was dead which was true.the boy grew up and when he was about eighteen his grandparents on the fathers side found him and through solicitors wanted to meet him his mother then had to tell him that in fact his father hung himself because they kept him out of his sons life,now to say that boy went off the rails is a massive understatement and all these years later he is still not right and the family has been damaged beyond belief so how do you and other supporters of transgender births think it might affect a child to know his father is his mother but now his father again, i notice that these insecure fragilepeople that we must feel sympathy for are not slow at selling the male giving birth story to a newspaper.

Edited August 5, 2016 by bostonmick

[islandgun]

Hi I G!

the trans gender bit I can understand, but why after all that they've gone thru do they then want a child? surely they would've been better off having the child before the sex change? it's a messed up situation being made worse because of the moral implications, not to mention the financial costs.

and as for the squabbling on here, it's all so "Life of Brian"

I can understand that mate, have the child when your a mrs then change to mr after, saves all that marriage business, mother and father in one life ! choose whatever gendre partner you like and still be hetrosexual, sorted,

sqabbling on here ? even I can remember when PW was about good banter and thought provoking, seems a bit nasty sometimes now

[KB1]

Too many keyboard warriors these days, handing out PC labels in the hope of being back slapped……. You can call me a 'bigot' (or anything else for that matter) if you want Scully, but I think you are still in the 'vocal' minority.

 

Mick's views are perfectly normal to many people; you don't have to agree, but you don't need to bully your views to the extent you have, if he disagrees with your PC drivel…...

 

PS. It's the kids, I feel sorry for….

[islandgun]

Too many keyboard warriors these days, handing out PC labels in the hope of being back slapped……. You can call me a 'bigot' (or anything else for that matter) if you want Scully, but I think you are still in the 'vocal' minority.

 

Mick's views are perfectly normal to many people; you don't have to agree, but you don't need to bully your views to the extent you have, if he disagrees with your PC drivel…...

 

PS. It's the kids, I feel sorry for….

 

dont agree, its the different views that make a forum, keep arguing

[mel b3]

Too many keyboard warriors these days, handing out PC labels in the hope of being back slapped……. You can call me a 'bigot' (or anything else for that matter) if you want Scully, but I think you are still in the 'vocal' minority.

 

Mick's views are perfectly normal to many people; you don't have to agree, but you don't need to bully your views to the extent you have, if he disagrees with your PC drivel…...

 

PS. It's the kids, I feel sorry for….

i agree with a lot of what kb1 says.

 

its a massive subject , some of it im comfortable with , and some of it im still very uncomfortable with.

 

i think that age has a lot to do with the way that we see things . to the younger members of the site , being gay or (sort of multi gender in this case) is something that is pretty much accepted these days and seen as normal and acceptable , im cruising towards 50yrs old and my experience / knowledge of the subject is very different and rather limited . i grew up in the middle of the black country and nobody was gay (with the exception of larry grayson on the telly) , infact the term gay hadnt even been invented when i was a kid , larry grayson was just the poof on the telly , as time marches on im becoming more enlightened on these matters , but , i find it offensive when someone tries to force these issues and tells me that i have to like it(i still cant cope with men kissing on the telly)i find it repulsive , but , i dont scream about it , i just turn away and dont let it become an issue , trying to force me to like it will only make me resentful . moving back to the generation before me , to them the whole gay thing must be even more shocking and difficult to come to terms with , it doesnt make them bad people , its just totally alien to them and they just struggle with it , rodp has been banned for his remarks , but hes one of the nicest guys that you could ever meet and wouldnt do anyone a bad turn , its a real shame because their was no malice in his posts , hes just older and hasnt been part of the whole gay revolution thing.

the way forward is tolerance , not only tolerance of gay people , but tolerance of people that arent gay.

 

back to the original point of the thread.

 

in my honest opinion , no i dont think that things like this should be paid for by the nhs , to spend the very limited funds in this way is irresponsible , how much chemotherapy could have been bought for the cost of this person changing their mind ?.

 

 

edited to add.

 

many hundreds of users will read this post and agree wholeheartedly with it(not everyone im sure) , but they will be too scared to say that they agree , for fear of being branded a homophobic bigot .

its a very sad day for the world when men are scared to voice an opinion.

Edited August 6, 2016 by mel b3

[Scully]

I don't think calling them anything has messed their heads I believe that was already there.if a male believes he should be female and vice versa then treat that because they are what they are born as.but do not pander to this at a cost of many hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money while there are real conditions that people are dying of due to lack of resources and time delays in treatment partly down to time and money spent on this and other cosmetic surgery which is mainly vanity driven.that is my opinion and you will not change it the same as I will not change yours and others of like mind.

 

i will ask you a question that i asked others but got no reply at what age do you think it would be right to explain to the child of one of these sex swaps and how would the conversation likely go,

 

about fifteen years ago i knew a woman who had a son and lived with her family from when the child was born,the family kept the father away from the boy even going as far as moving home quite some distance.now the boy was told at about six years old his father was dead which was true.the boy grew up and when he was about eighteen his grandparents on the fathers side found him and through solicitors wanted to meet him his mother then had to tell him that in fact his father hung himself because they kept him out of his sons life,now to say that boy went off the rails is a massive understatement and all these years later he is still not right and the family has been damaged beyond belief so how do you and other supporters of transgender births think it might affect a child to know his father is his mother but now his father again, i notice that these insecure fragilepeople that we must feel sympathy for are not slow at selling the male giving birth story to a newspaper.

 

I wasn't going to respond but have to in the name of balance.

The only thing which messes with peoples head Mick, is the attitude of others, and although you didn't intend this post to be so, it stands out as a perfect example.

Did you actually read the article Mick? If you did you will have noticed the cost is around the £30k mark for each procedure. In the scheme of the NHS budget where £30,000,000 will hardly see the NHS through the weekend, this is absolute chicken feed, but thats but the by; as I said from the beginning, I'm not really concerned about whether such procedures should be carried out on the NHS or not, but am really concerned about your attitude towards the people involved.

You asked me what right I had to judge the fathers of the twins (one of whom was gay ) remember? but then hypocritically go on to judge the people ( whom you don't know ) as 'freaks', 'sexual deviants' and 'it', none of which you would say to their faces, and then you have the gall on another thread to say only on PW could the conversation go from guns in Texas to someones nationality yet in this thread you made the jump from IVF treatment for cross gender people to a link with pedophilia!!

As for the question you didn't get answered, I answered it MIck albeit with sarcasm. Do you honestly think these decisions are undertaken with as much forethought as you add to most of your posts? Really? Do you not think all the pros and cons and whatever will have been looked at and scrutinised by professional people over a long period of time.

As for telling the kids; they're like sponges MIck; they absorb knowledge and love like sponges, and so long as they're loved they'll be fine. The only thing which will damage them is the sort of attitude shown by backward thinking pig ignorant ( believe me Mick I'm holding back here ) blinkered fossils like you. You and those like you belong in a museum Mick, as a perfect example of intolerant bigots.

If you don't agree the cost should be met by the NHS then that's fine, I'm still in two minds myself, but to object on the grounds such people are 'freaks' and 'sexual deviants' is just pathetic.

Your last paragraph in your post above Mick, is a perfect example of how some adults can twist the minds of children. A perfect example of how emotionally stunted adults, forfeiting love in favour of living with society inflicted shame, effect the mental well being of a child only to manifest itself in adulthood. No love and affection there...perfect. Let's all return to those days shall we, those rose tinted days when men were men and women knew their place.

Very very similar to my cousins experience, but that's for another thread.

[old'un]

 

I wasn't going to respond but have to in the name of balance.

The only thing which messes with peoples head Mick, is the attitude of others, and although you didn't intend this post to be so, it stands out as a perfect example.

Did you actually read the article Mick? If you did you will have noticed the cost is around the £30k mark for each procedure. In the scheme of the NHS budget where £30,000,000 will hardly see the NHS through the weekend, this is absolute chicken feed, but thats but the by; as I said from the beginning, I'm not really concerned about whether such procedures should be carried out on the NHS or not, but am really concerned about your attitude towards the people involved.

You asked me what right I had to judge the fathers of the twins (one of whom was gay ) remember? but then hypocritically go on to judge the people ( whom you don't know ) as 'freaks', 'sexual deviants' and 'it', none of which you would say to their faces, and then you have the gall on another thread to say only on PW could the conversation go from guns in Texas to someones nationality yet in this thread you made the jump from IVF treatment for cross gender people to a link with pedophilia!!

As for the question you didn't get answered, I answered it MIck albeit with sarcasm. Do you honestly think these decisions are undertaken with as much forethought as you add to most of your posts? Really? Do you not think all the pros and cons and whatever will have been looked at and scrutinised by professional people over a long period of time.

As for telling the kids; they're like sponges MIck; they absorb knowledge and love like sponges, and so long as they're loved they'll be fine. The only thing which will damage them is the sort of attitude shown by backward thinking pig ignorant ( believe me Mick I'm holding back here ) blinkered fossils like you. You and those like you belong in a museum Mick, as a perfect example of intolerant bigots.

If you don't agree the cost should be met by the NHS then that's fine, I'm still in two minds myself, but to object on the grounds such people are 'freaks' and 'sexual deviants' is just pathetic.

Your last paragraph in your post above Mick, is a perfect example of how some adults can twist the minds of children. A perfect example of how emotionally stunted adults, forfeiting love in favour of living with society inflicted shame, effect the mental well being of a child only to manifest itself in adulthood. No love and affection there...perfect. Let's all return to those days shall we, those rose tinted days when men were men and women knew their place.

Very very similar to my cousins experience, but that's for another thread.

Sorry Scully that is wrong, have a debate on a topic but name calling will not win you any friends, looking back I cannot find any posts where mick as made such strong personal remarks against you, mick has his opinions and you yours in this case its never the twain shall meet.

[bostonmick]

 

I wasn't going to respond but have to in the name of balance.

The only thing which messes with peoples head Mick, is the attitude of others, and although you didn't intend this post to be so, it stands out as a perfect example.

Did you actually read the article Mick? If you did you will have noticed the cost is around the £30k mark for each procedure.FOR EACH PROCEDURE NOT FOR THE YEARS OF COUNSELLING BEFORE.. In the scheme of the NHS budget where £30,000,000 will hardly see the NHS through the weekend, this is absolute chicken feed, but thats but the by; as I said from the beginning, I'm not really concerned about whether such procedures should be carried out on the NHS or not, but am really concerned about your attitude towards the people involved.

You asked me what right I had to judge the fathers of the twins (one of whom was gay ) remember? but then hypocritically go on to judge the people ( whom you don't know ) as 'freaks', 'sexual deviants' and 'it', none of which you would say to their faces, and then you have the gall on another thread to say only on PW could the conversation go from guns in Texas to someones nationality yet in this thread you made the jump from IVF treatment for cross gender people to a link with pedophilia!! I MADE NO LINK BETWEEN IVF ONLY THAT THE MORE OF THIS TYPE OF THING WE EMBRACE THE MORE THAT IS EXPECTED AND MY LATER COMMENT ON THE MOVES TO GET CONSENT AGE REDUCED WOYLD IN SOME WAY PROVE MY POINT.I DOUBT THAT EVEN YOU COULD JUSTIFY A WOMAN WHO HAS HAD HER BODY ALTERED BY SURGERY THEN GOING BACK FOR MORE EXPENSIVE TREATMENT TO UNDO SOME OF IT SO SHE CAN PERFORM THE FUNCTION SHE WAS QUITE CAPABLE OF BEFORE AND ALL AT OUR EXPENSE.THEN AFTER THE BABY ARRIVES WE PAY AGAIN TO return her to male status.which we all know is a biological impossibility.

As for the question you didn't get answered, I answered it MIck albeit with sarcasm. Do you honestly think these decisions are undertaken with as much forethought as you add to most of your posts? Really? Do you not think all the pros and cons and whatever will have been looked at and scrutinised by professional people over a long period of time.HOW DO YOU JUDGE THE MENTAL STATE OF SOMEONE NOT YET BORN I DOUBT EVEN THE SO CALLED EXPERTS IN THIS FIELD CAN DO THAT.

As for telling the kids; they're like sponges MIck; they absorb knowledge and love like sponges, and so long as they're loved they'll be fine. The only thing which will damage them is the sort of attitude shown by backward thinking pig ignorant ( believe me Mick I'm holding back here ) blinkered fossils like you. You and those like you belong in a museum Mick, as a perfect example of intolerant bigots.BEST WAY WHEN YOY HAVE NO ANSWER IS TO RESORT TO INSULTS HOW VERY PROGRESSIVE.

If you don't agree the cost should be met by the NHS then that's fine, I'm still in two minds myself, but to object on the grounds such people are 'freaks' and 'sexual deviants' is just pathetic.

Your last paragraph in your post above Mick, is a perfect example of how some adults can twist the minds of children. A perfect example of how emotionally stunted adults, forfeiting love in favour of living with society inflicted shame, effect the mental well being of a child only to manifest itself in adulthood. No love and affection there...perfect. Let's all return to those days shall we, those rose tinted days when men were men and women knew their place.

Very very similar to my cousins experience, but that's for another thread.

WELL I WOULD NEVER DOUBT FOR ONE MINUTE YOU DONT HAVE ANOTHER STORY TO TELL.

[Scully]

Sorry Scully that is wrong, have a debate on a topic but name calling will not win you any friends, looking back I cannot find any posts where mick as made such strong personal remarks against you, mick has his opinions and you yours in this case its never the twain shall meet.

 

I'm not on here to win friends; I'm fifty seven years old for crying out loud, not six! Especially those like Mick. It's ok for him to brand people he doesn't know as 'freaks' and 'sexual deviants', ( names I have absolutely no doubt he wouldn't even dare say to their faces, and which incidentally he could easily land himself in serious trouble for ) names of which they have no recourse in which to reply to him, but not ok for me to respond likewise? Believe me, it is only the confines within this forum which keeps me from telling him what I really think of him, and if I've gone too far then it was entirely worth it.

Yes, we both have our opinions, but if someone can't express an opinion without bigoted branding then perhaps they shouldn't do so? Just a thought.

[Scully]

WELL I WOULD NEVER DOUBT FOR ONE MINUTE YOU DONT HAVE ANOTHER STORY TO TELL.

Is that it Mick; is that all you can come back with? Want to hear the relevant story?

As for the rest of your post; did you in fact read the link? The person involved had transgender work from female to male, but all his female reproductive organs remained in

tact. Unless I've got it wrong doesn't this just mean all that would take place was the insertion of a fertilised egg and then birth by C section? He has no sperm, being formerly female,so what other option does he have? It happens on a daily basis within the NHS for people who cannot conceive in the normal manner.

As for 'how do you judge the mental state of someone not yet born' ? !!! Is that supposed to be a serious question? Really?

I can answer all your questions Mick, and have, without resorting to name calling; I'm just playing catch up on behalf of someone who can't.

The thing which can cause most trauma to children ( but there are a few notable and well known exceptions ) and mess with their minds is neglect and abuse Mick, not love; your last post prior to this one clearly showed that but for some reason you can't seem to see that.

I would much rather children are born to cross gender, gay or lesbian couples, and loved and cherished, than some of the unfortunates of today who are born simply because neither of the couple involved could be bothered to prevent it or know they will receive benefits as a result. Now coupled with the added burden of the tax payer paying for their welfare, PLUS their care on the NHS, that IS a serious drain on resources.

[bostonmick]

Is that it Mick; is that all you can come back with? Want to hear the relevant story?

As for the rest of your post; did you in fact read the link? The person involved had transgender work from female to male, but all his female reproductive organs remained in

tact. Unless I've got it wrong doesn't this just mean all that would take place was the insertion of a fertilised egg and then birth by C section? He has no sperm, being formerly female,so what other option does he have? It happens on a daily basis within the NHS for people who cannot conceive in the normal manner.

As for 'how do you judge the mental state of someone not yet born' ? !!! Is that supposed to be a serious question? Really?

I can answer all your questions Mick, and have, without resorting to name calling; I'm just playing catch up on behalf of someone who can't.

The thing which can cause most trauma to children ( but there are a few notable and well known exceptions ) and mess with their minds is neglect and abuse Mick, not love; your last post prior to this one clearly showed that but for some reason you can't seem to see that.

I would much rather children are born to cross gender, gay or lesbian couples, and loved and cherished, than some of the unfortunates of today who are born simply because neither of the couple involved could be bothered to prevent it or know they will receive benefits as a result. Now coupled with the added burden of the tax payer paying for their welfare, PLUS their care on the NHS, that IS a serious drain on resources.

 

you answer nothing as others have also noted,but try if you can a straight answer to this,why does the female not have the baby while she is pre op.she would still be able to have it done by donor,would in most cases give birth naturally whereby costing no more than any other birth(which nobody objects to the nhs funding) then change via surgery or is there a point of principal they are trying to prove somewhere at others expense.i have like many others no problem with the nhsgiving help/ivf to couples or even singles wanting a baby however i do believe that even this is limited due to cost and after so many atempts they have to finance it for themselves.and yes you are correct there is a culture in this country that life on benefits is a choice many make but that is another topic for maybe another thread.and i feel confident you would not like my views on that either.as i have said my opinion is as stated you will not change it in the same way i or anybody else will change yours so maybe it is best left there unless of course you have nothing else to do in life but try to convince everyone that you are the oracle.you are without doubt a modern man. or maybe not

[digger]

Can we have a new part of the forum just for Mick and Scully to argue constantly on every topic ?

[Scully]

Can we have a new part of the forum just for Mick and Scully to argue constantly on every topic ?

 

You don't have to read it it.

[Fabhui]

 

its a massive subject , some of it im comfortable with , and some of it im still very uncomfortable with.

 

i think that age has a lot to do with the way that we see things . to the younger members of the site , being gay or (sort of multi gender in this case) is something that is pretty much accepted these days and seen as normal and acceptable , im cruising towards 50yrs old and my experience / knowledge of the subject is very different and rather limited . i grew up in the middle of the black country and nobody was gay (with the exception of larry grayson on the telly) , infact the term gay hadnt even been invented when i was a kid , larry grayson was just the poof on the telly , as time marches on im becoming more enlightened on these matters , but , i find it offensive when someone tries to force these issues and tells me that i have to like it(i still cant cope with men kissing on the telly)i find it repulsive , but , i dont scream about it , i just turn away and dont let it become an issue , trying to force me to like it will only make me resentful . moving back to the generation before me , to them the whole gay thing must be even more shocking and difficult to come to terms with , it doesnt make them bad people , its just totally alien to them and they just struggle with it , rodp has been banned for his remarks , but hes one of the nicest guys that you could ever meet and wouldnt do anyone a bad turn , its a real shame because their was no malice in his posts , hes just older and hasnt been part of the whole gay revolution thing.

the way forward is tolerance , not only tolerance of gay people , but tolerance of people that arent gay.

 

back to the original point of the thread.

 

in my honest opinion , no i dont think that things like this should be paid for by the nhs , to spend the very limited funds in this way is irresponsible , how much chemotherapy could have been bought for the cost of this person changing their mind ?.

 

 

edited to add.

 

many hundreds of users will read this post and agree wholeheartedly with it(not everyone im sure) , but they will be too scared to say that they agree , for fear of being branded a homophobic bigot .

its a very sad day for the world when men are scared to voice an opinion.

Nicely said and also sums up my personal feelings on the subject.

[Scully]

 

you answer nothing as others have also noted,but try if you can a straight answer to this,why does the female not have the baby while she is pre op.she would still be able to have it done by donor,would in most cases give birth naturally whereby costing no more than any other birth(which nobody objects to the nhs funding) then change via surgery or is there a point of principal they are trying to prove somewhere at others expense. Are you serious ? How am I supposed to know that? Why don't you write to them via the link and ask them? I'm sure they'd be really interested to learn what you think MIck. I look forward to reading about it when you do so. You could address it as 'Dear It.....' Please let us all know how you get on. Or, as I suspect, have you not got the courage? i have like many others no problem with the nhsgiving help/ivf to couples or even singles wanting a baby however i do believe that even this is limited due to cost and after so many atempts they have to finance it for themselves.and yes you are correct there is a culture in this country that life on benefits is a choice many make but that is another topic for maybe another thread.and i feel confident you would not like my views on that either.as i have said my opinion is as stated you will not change it in the same way i or anybody else will change yours so maybe it is best left there unless of course you have nothing else to do in life but try to convince everyone that you are the oracle.you are without doubt a modern man. or maybe not

As I've already said ( and in your case will no doubt have to say it again and again ) if you can't express an opinion without casting slurs on a persons character without knowing anything about them, other than what you've read in a link to an online paper, then perhaps it's better to not bother. What do you think?

[bostonmick]

i never realised that robp had been banned was it for comments on this thread,if so i never saw them i think it is a great shame that for the first instance of things the mods do not like they remove the post and give a warning,maybe it was i dont know.