panoma1 Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Sab = Saboteur..........as in someone who takes direct action in order to sabotage the sporting activities of others.....such as hunting, shooting, fishing etc. Example....Hunt Saboteur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Sab = Saboteur..........as in someone who takes direct action in order to sabotage the sporting activities of others.....such as hunting, shooting, fishing etc. Example....Hunt Saboteur. ,,,,, sabs also have special powers, in a meeting with the police during the early days of the cull the chief constable in charge, while being questing by cull operatives, said protesters are allow a certain amount of aggressive behaviour due to the passion of their belief's and the heat of the moment. This seems to allow trespass, spitting, accusing opposition of being paedophiles ( and other intimidating language) minor assault and property damage. Of course the only action the tide of the unwashed would really understand would loose you your license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 ,,,,, sabs also have special powers, in a meeting with the police during the early days of the cull the chief constable in charge, while being questing by cull operatives, said protesters are allow a certain amount of aggressive behaviour due to the passion of their belief's and the heat of the moment. This seems to allow trespass, spitting, accusing opposition of being paedophiles ( and other intimidating language) minor assault and property damage. Of course the only action the tide of the unwashed would really understand would loose you your license. Can you provide the details of this meeting please as I'd like to see proof from its minutes that the CC allowed special dispensation for sabs to break the law? The CC doesn't have the power to change the law, just to uphold it. No-one is above the law, however "hot" they feel about a subject. I detest sabs and feel very strongly about that, but that doesn't mean that I am, or should be allowed any dispensation for aggravated trespass or assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I doubt if there were any minutes kept from the meeting but the question was asked by a cull operative that had many vicious encounters with the antis,' If I were to start abusing someone who walk in front of me in the high street would I be arrested' . The answer from the police was yes of course and then the above statement was made. If you don't realise that the enforcers of the law have there own ways of interpreting the law then sign up for the cull next year and your eyes will be opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) It'd be interesting to enquire from the senior police officer present if minutes of that meeting were held, as that is a serious allegation which demands to be followed up. A freedom of information request will be issued...can you please provide details of the meeting date/venue and who was attending? (PM is fine). It needs challenging, if needs be, in a court of law. The law is not open to interpretation where clear breaches are evidenced. It isn't the job of the police to decide what should and what should not be upheld. As to mitigating circumstances, that is for a court to decide. It is hardly mitigating circumstances to feel strongly about badgers being shot..at least it cannot and should not condone breaking the law and preventing persons going about their lawful business. There's a word for that..."anarchy". To be fair to the police, the one's I've spoken to on the subject are very clear that if a breach of the peace is reported, they will deal with it like any other, on the evidence supplied. The difficult thing is that they cannot be everywhere, but on the one occasion that I needed them last year to deal with aggravated trespass, they turned up within 10 minutes of being called, en-force and were very helpful. Edited September 11, 2016 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Good points well made Savhmr. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 ,,,,, sabs also have special powers, in a meeting with the police during the early days of the cull the chief constable in charge, while being questing by cull operatives, said protesters are allow a certain amount of aggressive behaviour due to the passion of their belief's and the heat of the moment. This seems to allow trespass, spitting, accusing opposition of being paedophiles ( and other intimidating language) minor assault and property damage. Of course the only action the tide of the unwashed would really understand would loose you your license. Perhaps he should have been asked if he would have accepted this behaviour, towards one of his Officers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Read about this chap, trying to get Grouse shooting banned from Ilkley Moor. https://speakingofresearch.com/2014/01/08/luke-steele-convicted-activist-rises-through-animal-rights-ranks/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 It'd be interesting to enquire from the senior police officer present if minutes of that meeting were held, as that is a serious allegation which demands to be followed up. A freedom of information request will be issued...can you please provide details of the meeting date/venue and who was attending? (PM is fine). It needs challenging, if needs be, in a court of law. The law is not open to interpretation where clear breaches are evidenced. It isn't the job of the police to decide what should and what should not be upheld. As to mitigating circumstances, that is for a court to decide. It is hardly mitigating circumstances to feel strongly about badgers being shot..at least it cannot and should not condone breaking the law and preventing persons going about their lawful business. There's a word for that..."anarchy". To be fair to the police, the one's I've spoken to on the subject are very clear that if a breach of the peace is reported, they will deal with it like any other, on the evidence supplied. The difficult thing is that they cannot be everywhere, but on the one occasion that I needed them last year to deal with aggravated trespass, they turned up within 10 minutes of being called, en-force and were very helpful. You really need to go and assist a few of the chaps on the cull with your note book and take a few police numbers and see if you get any further than anyone else ever has. The information I have is relayed by a shooting buddy who is not one for exaggeration, there have been many arrests but always result in no prosecution. The main reason of course is that the innocent party pulls out of going to court as he does not want to give his name and address in court, which he has to do, and risk intimidation for his family. If is truly unbelievable what protesters have manage to get away with but, as the cull rolls out across the country you will all see first hand, lets hope the law supports you more than they have in Gloucestershire and your protests of unlawful behaviour are dealt with properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted September 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) I feel for you redgum, they were nasty vile little scum bags and we weren't even badger culling, we were lamping with 17HMR's but they never bother to let facts get in the way eh?!? I really hope those of you who haven't encountered them never do.., They were swarming on the dark roads at night looking for trouble which is intimidating if you're alone and you have 6 cars of them like we did following and looking for you...mudmad had to ask the police to hold one car at the garage so he could get away home without being followed!' Edited September 11, 2016 by lloydi73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 You really need to go and assist a few of the chaps on the cull with your note book and take a few police numbers and see if you get any further than anyone else ever has. The information I have is relayed by a shooting buddy who is not one for exaggeration, there have been many arrests but always result in no prosecution. The main reason of course is that the innocent party pulls out of going to court as he does not want to give his name and address in court, which he has to do, and risk intimidation for his family. If is truly unbelievable what protesters have manage to get away with but, as the cull rolls out across the country you will all see first hand, lets hope the law supports you more than they have in Gloucestershire and your protests of unlawful behaviour are dealt with properly. I do have empathy with that, but if people are being threatened, and if their families are being threatened, then the police, again, have to be involved with that. We simply cannot stand by and let these thugs get away with these things. Fwiw, I have been in the middle of a fracas involving aggravated trespass and myself and a mate were attacked by thugs wielding sticks. I took the phone out, took pictures and gave them to the police. My mate wouldn't press charges as he was afraid of reprisals for the reasons you state. Luckily, we both came out of that pretty much unscathed, but given the same set of circumstances again, neither of us would have any hesitation in pushing for charges to be brought and we'd both gladly go to court. What changed our minds was that given an inch, these people then proceeded to take the micky and the aftermath was misery for my mate especially with the harassment he got afterwards. I can and do see how it might frighten some people from following through. And Lloydi, I agree completely with you. It is bl**dy intimidating to have people after you. Its a sad sign of the times when we can't even go out for an evening's shoot without these thugs getting more organised and in numbers not previously seen. The badger thing is largely irrelevant I think, as when they see anyone shooting, it's fair game. We can't though give into these nasty, vile and surprisingly organised thugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Surprisingly organised and well funded with the latest high tech thermal kit( thanks to publicity from May, Goody and Packham) so they can spot anyone out in the night, your biggest enemy is your rifle. Well versed with the law these scum will intimidate while shining a powerful light in your face while filming you hoping for an aggressive reaction. Its not easy to film back when your protecting a firearm and trying to act in accordance with your firearm certs regulations eg non aggressive behaviour. Its terrorist tactics and this very post helps spread the fear and yes it needs to be stopped, isn't there a law trying to be passed so the sabs can't mask there identity by covering there faces. Around my way, due to bad handling by police, a vigilante attitude has sprung up and unarmed individuals harass the antis, passively of course, mainly by following them in vehicles, it annoys the hell out of them but make sure your car is taxed as they are all to keen to contact the police when they feel threatened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) Brass plate on your rifle like the old Enfield springs to mind.... what power do we have to do anything about it?? In all honesty wether this is right right thing or not but if I am out shooting on my own which I usually am and get confronted I'm nice and polite. If they antagonise the situation I try and move off. What if they stop you?? What if you can't get away? As far as I'm concerned it near enough falls in to a matter of life and death. We already know what there capable of. They will try and get your rifle, surely cracking one of them over the head wouldn't be too bad? At the end of the day, I have mouths to feed, work to do and if someone tried to take it away it wouldn't end pretty as many of us would agree. Also a lot of places we shoot are out the way therefore having no phone signal. What would the best thing to do be? Edit- I have also had a conversation to a local officer regarding this, whatever it takes to remove yourself from the situation was the response I got. And surely if a sab took your rifle it would be an instant 5 years for the sab for having a firearm without license, armed trespass and so on? Edited September 12, 2016 by Hendrix's rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Hoe Hill House by any chance? Good. Hopefully we will have a chance to catch up before then. The shoot will be great! I can't remember the name of the hotel I booked, I just did the one you told me to. I will have to ask you to remind me nearer the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted September 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) Hoe Hill House by any chance? Not that one, but not far from it, about 2 miles from it Edited September 12, 2016 by lloydi73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 And surely if a sab took your rifle it would be an instant 5 years for the sab for having a firearm without license, armed trespass and so on? So any update on this.? What's the law say.? There's a few coppers on this forum, can any of them comment, especially where you stand on your actions in one of these situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I'm not sure any advice ( apart from making the unloading of your firearm a priority ) can be offered really. Don't we all just simply react to any given circumstances ? You may find you can simply walk or drive away and therefore avoid any confrontation, or you may find yourself fighting to defend yourself, but whatever the circumstances, anyone would expect the police to act in accordance with the law. I would think the most difficult part would be to ignore deliberate damage to ones vehicle or threats to ones well being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 not sure what I would do as age is against me, but I think I would hand the gun over (after making it safe) then phone the police, tell them what happened and tell them that they are armed. I wonder what the response from the police would be and what subsequent action they would take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 . And surely if a sab took your rifle it would be an instant 5 years for the sab for having a firearm without license, armed trespass and so on? and that's what you would expect, several rifle's have been taken by sabs and luckily recovered by the owners quite promptly ( one incident last week in Stow on the wold ) on one occasion the act was filmed by a Natural England monitor, so proof and such a serious event you would think at least attempted theft of a firearm, no conviction was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 What would happen if you are lamping on foot on your own and a group of them intimidate you, surround you and you know you're going to get a beating etc? At what point are you allowed to defend yourself? And what could you do to defend yourself? (Serious question) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 What a carp world we live in when a person can't go (is prevented from going) about their lawful business without fear of intimidation and physical assault by vigilantes! The police are there to uphold the law by protecting the law abiding citizen.....instead, by not doing their job they support the provocative and often unlawful conduct of vigilantes and anarchists against the law abiding!....absolutely disgraceful! If the police refuse to protect the law abiding...at some point some hitherto law abiding citizen will use lethal force to protect themselves....who will then be to blame?......and who will carry the blame?......not the police, nor the anarchist vigilantes I'll be bound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 What would happen if you are lamping on foot on your own and a group of them intimidate you, surround you and you know you're going to get a beating etc? At what point are you allowed to defend yourself? And what could you do to defend yourself? (Serious question)Well the answer has to be 'how long is a piece of string?' As I've said, we all react to the circumstances in which we find ourselves. I can see where this thread is headed and I'm not going to get into a protracted debate about the dos and dont's and the potential for legal implications. The answer is you do what you have to do to get away; what else can anyone say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 What would happen if you are lamping on foot on your own and a group of them intimidate you, surround you and you know you're going to get a beating etc? At what point are you allowed to defend yourself? And what could you do to defend yourself? (Serious question) Same thing I was going for. Surely if your going to get a beating and possibly have your firearm stolen you SHOULD BE able to use force to remove yourself from the situation. I said to a Sargent from Cheshire what would I do. How do I get away? I also proceeded to say if I had a group of people trying to beat me and Rob me they would have another thing coming much to her dislike. I also said if they did they would end up on the floor with a broken nose and asked who would be at fault. I had no answer from that only a look of disgust. I personally think act first think after in a situation like that... that second your sat there thinking could mean loosing your rifle and taking a beating. As a boxer+mma fighter I know how to stand up for myself and violence will always come last but if there is nothing else you can do what do you do? Do you run with a rifle, back pack and all your gear when you will get caught? I'm currently helping the police out with a few things in regards to poaching and they have all of there Info from myself, as the wildlife officer said herself. Yet I ring the police in need of assistance and no body turned up. I said to her if it happens again and I can't get away it will turn nasty. Her response was make sure it's 'reasonable' force... what a world we live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Same thing I was going for. Surely if your going to get a beating and possibly have your firearm stolen you SHOULD BE able to use force to remove yourself from the situation. I said to a Sargent from Cheshire what would I do. How do I get away? I also proceeded to say if I had a group of people trying to beat me and Rob me they would have another thing coming much to her dislike. I also said if they did they would end up on the floor with a broken nose and asked who would be at fault. I had no answer from that only a look of disgust. I personally think act first think after in a situation like that... that second your sat there thinking could mean loosing your rifle and taking a beating. As a boxer+mma fighter I know how to stand up for myself and violence will always come last but if there is nothing else you can do what do you do? Do you run with a rifle, back pack and all your gear when you will get caught? I'm currently helping the police out with a few things in regards to poaching and they have all of there Info from myself, as the wildlife officer said herself. Yet I ring the police in need of assistance and no body turned up. I said to her if it happens again and I can't get away it will turn nasty. Her response was make sure it's 'reasonable' force... what a world we live in. As a person who is used to conflict in the ring/cage you know that the more you face your fears the more easily you can react in a calm manner rather than panic. This applies to confrontation with the antis, the first encounters are terrifying but the more your faced with it the easier it is to react in the correct manner. My first real encounter other than dog walkers complaining about pigeon shooting that is, was four years ago during the first badger cull in Gloucestershire on a farm I have shot over for years. I had gone out lamping with the farm hand, his girlfriend and the farms old landrover to get rid of a fox that had been eating the chickens, probably not the best idea with the cull being on but nobody knew the antis would cause so much trouble. A vehicle came down the farm track, first thoughts that it could be police or the farmer so we approach innocently. When we were just in front of the vehicle the doors flung open and three screaming balaclava clad idiots jumped out, one filming us, one with a very powerful spotlight trained at our faces and one with an anti rape alarm screaming. Bit of a shock to say the least, luckily the old landy was infront of the antis car so I instructed the farm hand and his lass to jump in and get it started, I scrambled into the back of the canvas clad pickup with the rifle. We booted it across a field, the car unfortunately didn't go into the field and get stuck but the two others remained on foot chasing us screaming all sorts of obscenities with the rape alarm still screaming. The farm hand obviously knew the land and we got back to the farm buildings and parked up, I then phoned 101 and gave location. The antis drove around for a bit making a racket, the police arrived an hour after they had gone. The police stayed while I put the rifle away and put everything including myself into my vehicle and they then left. As I drove down the road I had a pair of lights right up my bumper, luckily my knowledge of the lanes was much better than theirs and soon lost them, what a night. The cull has rattled on every autumn for the last four years and I'll be darned if I'm stopping shooting for 2 months every year, alas I have many since encounters with the scum, don't be fooled by some lovely old boy from the wounded badger patrol, he will soon call for more serious back up. I go prepare, with mates and carrying the rifle slip and don't feel intimated anymore. The best advice I have is not to go out alone, two's good, three is great, keep your gun slip with you, when challenged try and remain calm and don't say a word, the shooter should be kept out of it and protected,use your lamp on them and film with your phone, even if pretending. Don't speak or get angry just stare at them, remember they don't know if your some ex services nutter or the vicar, they will intimidate for a reaction, they don't like no reaction, I don't even both to have an educated chat its not worth it. Once you have sized up the idiots make a steady retreat to a safe location keeping the rifle in front, if it should kick off and you have to do what you have to protect the rifle just make sure you stamp on their phones and filming equipment as sure as eggs they will be filming your reaction. One night the antis tried to stop travellers from lamping with their dogs, every window in the antis car was smashed and all tyres punctured, the antis got a bit of a beating to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted September 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Thanks Redgum......some good advice..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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