Dismantling the "Jungle"

[sportsbob]

To simplify and answer for the benefit of all the "well we did this to such and such" and "this happened before the invention of the telephone" brigade surely a line has to be drawn somewhere sometime so with regards to immigration why not here and now?

[Rewulf]

To simplify and answer for the benefit of all the "well we did this to such and such" and "this happened before the invention of the telephone" brigade surely a line has to be drawn somewhere sometime so with regards to immigration why not here and now?

 

Wheres the fun in that !?

 

There are active groups still calling for slavery reparations !

If someone can use the historical 'You did this to us xxx years ago' they will do, to serve their agenda.

Personally ,Ive never owned slaves,pretty certain my family or friends havnt either,coming from an impoverished line,I doubt any of my ancestors have.

So,is anyone going to own up to having owned slaves,so you can compensate the victims (who are long dead) ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Don't forget the Italians Gordon and the mixed up mob that was the Roman Empire.

 

Neither is history I'm sorry to say.

 

 

I thought the Italians went to Wales to start ice cream empires!

[Gordon R]

sportsbob - Totally agree. I say again, to those who advocate unlimited immigration - would you ever draw a line? If 100 million arrived, would you still think we could cope. Only an idiot would say yes.

 

The difference is where you draw the line. I say we have too many now and don't need more.

 

As for those who harp on about the past - what about the Germans - should they let Jewish people in, to atone for their atrocities? No - what is done is done. We cannot change history, but hopefully learn lessons from it.

[four-wheel-drive]

I see that I am wasting my time trying to have a proper debate as most of you people are so single minded that you find it imposable to even think that there is another side to every argument.

 

I am admit that for the most part I do not like all of these people coming in to the country that I was borne in and changing everything but I can also see it from these other peoples side and it is not a simple yes or no or black or white but it seems that it is just to much for people on here to see any further than the end of there noses.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I see that I am wasting my time trying to have a proper debate as most of you people are so single minded that you find it imposable to even think that there is another side to every argument.

 

I am admit that for the most part I do not like all of these people coming in to the country that I was borne in and changing everything but I can also see it from these other peoples side and it is not a simple yes or no or black or white but it seems that it is just to much for people on here to see any further than the end of there noses.

 

Could it possibly be as simple as you being unable to see any body elses view?

[12gauge82]

I see that I am wasting my time trying to have a proper debate as most of you people are so single minded that you find it imposable to even think that there is another side to every argument.

 

I am admit that for the most part I do not like all of these people coming in to the country that I was borne in and changing everything but I can also see it from these other peoples side and it is not a simple yes or no or black or white but it seems that it is just to much for people on here to see any further than the end of there noses.

I can understand the point you make, and wish everyone in the world had a heart like you, as it'd be a much better place. Unfortunately the reality is the world is not a nice place and reality needs to kick in, the vast majority of people from the UK are not responsible for what has happened and continues to happen around the world particularly in the middle east which has been waring for literally thousands of years, the slave trade (which might I add was propergated by the wealthy elite of this country and of their own country who are still in the vast majority of cases the wealthy elite and are not likely to put their hands in their pocket anytime soon. Especially not when they have the left of this country happy to take the rapp for it.) has nothing to do with the vast majority of the UK population and never did. I would say the opposite is true and in fact most of our forefathers led impoverished lives, paying for other people's wars in blood which has allowed us the freedoms and luxury we enjoy today. To sum up if you feel you would like to donate time money etc to supporting people less fortunate than ourselves in other countries then good on you, however please don't expect me and the rest of the majority of the UK to open the borders and pay for it economicley and socially.

[bostonmick]

 

I cant speak for Boston TBH ,Ive only ever driven through it.

I do know it has a high E.European population,but the ones that I know personally (Yes,I have friends from Latvia,Poland ,Lithuania and the C.R) all graft their tails off!

When THEY say there are too many E.Europeans in the UK, you know there may be a problem.

But to me ,as I said,the bigger problem lies with Africans and some Middle Eastern countries,where a work ethic is somewhat lacking in their culture.

I have known some East Europeans and as you say they are very happy to work.also they do a lot of jobs for minimum wage this though leads to other expense as they claim housing and other benefits but at least they are trying.the biggest problem now is we have people turning up with no identification and we are to take their word that they are from within the European or genuine refugees.and I am sure you will agree this opens a massive can of worms.just look at the children coming in all freshly shaved that morning.some say we owe these people maybe to some extent we do but not for the rest of their days and all they want.i like millions before me paid into our system and have every right to expect returns on that if occasion arises.however we are now being told we must accept less and in some cases nothing at all.i resent that when we are told by unelected people in the European union we must give all and sundry full access to our overstretched system.

[Gordon R]

bostonmick and 12gauge82 - well said.

 

four-wheel-drive - you are not having a debate. You are sticking to your rather bizarre viewpoint, whilst ignoring others and reality.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Gordon R

[Rewulf]

A few analogies.

Charity begins at home,it is administered in the home and supported by the home.

If you go out to do charitable works,it is because you have a home to go back to when done.

If the home is destroyed or made poor,then you are unable to do charity for others.

 

If your charity is scorned ' I want more meat on my plate ' , 'I demand a better house/more money' then it ceases to become charity.

Charity is something given freely ,not demanded.

I think few of us on here are uncharitable,but when the good intention of it has been abused,again and again,it gets a little tedious.

 

Lets get something straight ,even the small percentage of genuine refugees to this country are not here because we bombed their homes or made their country unviable.

They are mostly displaced because of sectarian,religious or tribal violence that has plagued their countries for centuries,and caused entirely by themselves.

Syria is in ruins because of a popular revolt between the poor Sunni majority and the ruling Alawite/Shia minority.

The Russian and US meddling is purely opportunistic.

 

As has been said,why should the common man feel guilty because of this.

More importantly ,why should the common man have to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong.

A genuine refugee would not bite the (charitable) hand that feeds them.

So why do they ?

[longspoon]

I see that I am wasting my time trying to have a proper debate as most of you people are so single minded that you find it imposable to even think that there is another side to every argument.

 

I am admit that for the most part I do not like all of these people coming in to the country that I was borne in and changing everything but I can also see it from these other peoples side and it is not a simple yes or no or black or white but it seems that it is just to much for people on here to see any further than the end of there noses.

 

How many more immigrants do you want to allow into our country ? we are an island, immutable borders, a finite land mass, I do not want the standards we have worked for destroyed by over population. Our infra-structure is buckling under the strain already. I assure you, I see very much farther than the end of my nose. The situation is nowhere as simplistic as you see it.

[UKPoacher]

why this is such a problem is I do not want all of these people coming in to my country and changing it but what would the native Americans Australian Aborigines the list goes on and on say when we and other Northern European white people decided to take over there countries and in the proses kill most of them off.

 

I now that this country has been invaded by lots of other countries many hundreds of years ago but these people was mostly Northern Europeans much the same as you and me and they tended to intermix with the people already living here not just bump us all off.

 

Right! The Romans were the first of the organised invaders and they committed horrific atrocities on the indigenous people of the UK.

After they retreated to protect their southern borders against attacks the Vikings came over and again massacred vast numbers of the British people. Then came the Danes and once again they did not come with an olive branch. The massacred tens of thousands. After that the country was largely divided between Danes, Vikings and the Celts who represented the indigenous peoples of the British Isles. Whenever any of those factions met there was wholesale slaughter For hundreds of years the Vikings and Danes were at war with the Celts the oppressed minority in law, wealth and social standing. Just after that was sorted out and peace looked like breaking out for a while the Normans invaded and took the country by force. Have you not hear of William's 'Harrying of the North'? He suppressed local opposition by murder and burning huge swathes of land, villages and towns.

 

I see that I am wasting my time trying to have a proper debate as most of you people are so single minded that you find it imposable to even think that there is another side to every argument.

 

I am admit that for the most part I do not like all of these people coming in to the country that I was borne in and changing everything but I can also see it from these other peoples side and it is not a simple yes or no or black or white but it seems that it is just to much for people on here to see any further than the end of there noses.

 

 

Probably because you are totally ignorant of the facts and seem to believe that you have a simple solution to every problem. Must be a wonderful world you live in. But it ain't mine.

[UKPoacher]

A few analogies.

Charity begins at home,it is administered in the home and supported by the home.

If you go out to do charitable works,it is because you have a home to go back to when done.

If the home is destroyed or made poor,then you are unable to do charity for others.

 

If your charity is scorned ' I want more meat on my plate ' , 'I demand a better house/more money' then it ceases to become charity.

Charity is something given freely ,not demanded.

I think few of us on here are uncharitable,but when the good intention of it has been abused,again and again,it gets a little tedious.

 

Lets get something straight ,even the small percentage of genuine refugees to this country are not here because we bombed their homes or made their country unviable.

They are mostly displaced because of sectarian,religious or tribal violence that has plagued their countries for centuries,and caused entirely by themselves.

Syria is in ruins because of a popular revolt between the poor Sunni majority and the ruling Alawite/Shia minority.

The Russian and US meddling is purely opportunistic.

 

As has been said,why should the common man feel guilty because of this.

More importantly ,why should the common man have to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong.

A genuine refugee would not bite the (charitable) hand that feeds them.

So why do they ?

 

Absolutely spot on

[Penelope]

You forgot the Angles and Saxons unless you are lumping them in with the Danes (Jutes).

 

 

Right! The Romans were the first of the organised invaders and they committed horrific atrocities on the indigenous people of the UK.

After they retreated to protect their southern borders against attacks the Vikings came over and again massacred vast numbers of the British people. Then came the Danes and once again they did not come with an olive branch. The massacred tens of thousands. After that the country was largely divided between Danes, Vikings and the Celts who represented the indigenous peoples of the British Isles. Whenever any of those factions met there was wholesale slaughter For hundreds of years the Vikings and Danes were at war with the Celts the oppressed minority in law, wealth and social standing. Just after that was sorted out and peace looked like breaking out for a while the Normans invaded and took the country by force. Have you not hear of William's 'Harrying of the North'? He suppressed local opposition by murder and burning huge swathes of land, villages and towns.

 

 

Probably because you are totally ignorant of the facts and seem to believe that you have a simple solution to every problem. Must be a wonderful world you live in. But it ain't mine.

[UKPoacher]

You forgot the Angles and Saxons unless you are lumping them in with the Danes (Jutes).

 

Yes, I was. In effect there were several tribes for want of a better word seeking to relocate to England for various reasons and none of them as far as I am aware had altruistic intentions. Even when Alfred made concessions to the invaders and gave them land in return for a peaceful cohabitation they abused his kindness.

 

4WD must think that Harold marched up to Yorkshire to welcome the northern invaders Harald Hadrada and Tostig, and then all the way down to Sussex to make William also feel welcome.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

An interesting development;

 

http://www.thenational.scot/world/children-who-have-lost-calais-jungle-home-are-arrested.24076

[Lloyd90]

An interesting development;

 

http://www.thenational.scot/world/children-who-have-lost-calais-jungle-home-are-arrested.24076

Interesting indeed.

 

A few buses have come through and now every one of them is claiming to have family already in England!

 

They soon learn what to say to slip through.

[Rewulf]

In a statement, Help Refugees said: “Police have now been arresting and forcibly removing children with no explanation or translators. This has happened to children with and without wristbands.”

Members said they witnessed two police vans removing young people but the total number held is unclear. The group said the youngsters were then told they would not be registered yet and were sent back to outside the container camp. Help refugees say police have now been arresting and forcibly removing children with no explanation or translators.

I know 'children' can be a loose term,but in this case do you see French police and officials doing any of the above to what I would call children?

I know legally under 18 is a child,but when confronted with a mob of 15-16 year olds who may or may not be acting aggressively ,what would you do?

At the end of the day,if the French authorities are acting illegally ,they need to be brought to account,they have a legal responsibility to care for any unaccompanied minors on their territory.

As for charities and 'activists' like Help Refugees, they need to stop blabbing to the press about the injustice of it all ,and do what it says on the label.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Amen to that.

[Gordon R]

I wonder about the circumstances where parents have already entered the UK, leaving the "children" in war zones with no-one to look after them. These "children" then miraculously make their way to Calais, waiting to re-join their parents in the UK.

 

Forgive me for thinking they couldn't lie straight in bed.

[Rewulf]

I wonder about the circumstances where parents have already entered the UK, leaving the "children" in war zones with no-one to look after them. These "children" then miraculously make their way to Calais, waiting to re-join their parents in the UK.

 

Forgive me for thinking they couldn't lie straight in bed.

 

This to me is the whole crux of the jungle children issue.

How have they become unaccompanied?

Did they get there on their own ,or did their parents/guardians abandon them?

If so are their parents fit to look after them at all.

Im sure someone will say how the situation is complicated or they had no choice,but I would use my last breath making sure my kids were safe.

 

Besides the fact that their age is questionable in some cases,and downright obvious in others,if they genuinely do have relatives in the UK ,why do they just not apply for asylum in France and go through the proper procedures to be reunited?

Why do they cover their faces?

I am sick of hearing 'aid ' workers and charity hypocrites telling us WE are not doing enough.

They are in France!

[longspoon]

Again Rewulf, well said.....

[UKPoacher]

President Hallande is calling for the UK to take more of them. Why? France has not bothered to care for them while they were committing criminal acts against motorists nor has it taken steps until recently to register them. Just because the want to go to the UK doesn't make it the UK's obligation to take them.

 

They are on French soil and therefore are a French problem. End of!

[Guest]

It's like the saying arnie says I WILL BE BACK . Give then a couple of months

[TIGHTCHOKE]

President Hallande is calling for the UK to take more of them. Why? France has not bothered to care for them while they were committing criminal acts against motorists nor has it taken steps until recently to register them. Just because the want to go to the UK doesn't make it the UK's obligation to take them.

 

They are on French soil and therefore are a French problem. End of!

 

France should either have dealt with them as they entered French soil or stopped them entering and sent them back whence they came.