Shotgun shooting high calculation

[Rewulf]

 

Ordinary shotgun range 15-65 yards nobody takes shot drop into the equation, scatter guns just don't work like that.

 

Again ,I never said you had to adjust for shot drop at ordinary ranges.

The OP couldnt understand why it was shooting high at 10 yards,I said that was normal for several reasons.

You and others insinuated there was no drop, do you now concede there is ?

Whether it matters or not to your shot depends on the range,or is Mr Digweed wrong too ?

[sishyplops]

I shot today at a straight flat going away target which I took at ~30 yes, I was concentrating as was using my sxs , its choked 1/2 and full and found if I shot just under it I hit it, and if I pulled through it I hit it, I also shot just to the left and still hit it (this was as I peaked to early not because I was purposely trying to shoot up the left) I then shot up the right hand side and I still hit it, my conclusion is I could pretty much shoot anywhere close to it and still hit it, if you're on it you're on it, was using 8's in 27" barrels not that I think that's makes any difference whatsoever either lol

[Hamster]

 

Again ,I never said you had to adjust for shot drop at ordinary ranges.

The OP couldnt understand why it was shooting high at 10 yards,I said that was normal for several reasons.

You and others insinuated there was no drop, do you now concede there is ?

Whether it matters or not to your shot depends on the range,or is Mr Digweed wrong too ?

 

No he's not wrong but you're twisting the context to suit your argument. You have to hold over at silly yardage but you don't hold over or under at any yardage when shooting at regular shotgun ranges.

[Hamster]

I shot today at a straight flat going away target which I took at ~30 yes, I was concentrating as was using my sxs , its choked 1/2 and full and found if I shot just under it I hit it, and if I pulled through it I hit it, I also shot just to the left and still hit it (this was as I peaked to early not because I was purposely trying to shoot up the left) I then shot up the right hand side and I still hit it, my conclusion is I could pretty much shoot anywhere close to it and still hit it, if you're on it you're on it, was using 8's in 27" barrels not that I think that's makes any difference whatsoever either lol

 

That is how scatter guns work, close enough will usually (but not always) break the clay. There are many elements that have to be right to make a successful shot and the greater the distance and more acute the angle the harder it becomes to execute all that matters in unison to make it count but one thing nobody ever allows for is shot drop (or rise).

[buze]

Today I had a fun 'caddied' day at Churchill, where I asked the caddy to throw me /anything/ as long as I had dropped 2 cartridges in the gun. No 'Pull' involved! Singles, pairs, whatever he had at his command at that station. Some of the stations have 4 or 5 traps, so no easy going.

 

Well 1) it was a load of fun and 2) I realised that shooting instinctively you have a LOT of margins of ~30 yards clays. I had the time to rush closing the gun, swinging and shooting, sometime with the gun not even 'on' the shoulder and I'd still break the clay. Very often in a nice satisfying cloud of dust in fact.

 

On further clays you need a bit more work and be steadier, but then again, they usually not as 'quick' (compared to your position).

 

All of that reminded me of the basic rule: shotguns are not aimed, they are just pointed, the pattern is there to help you.

 

Anyway, I do suggest you guys try that game with a mate, it's heaps of fun!

[B25Modelman]

Gosh all those calculations. Had I thought about that 45 years ago I would NEVER have started.

 

I'm a swing through, keep the momentum going and pull trigger. No time to work all those figures out.

 

I bet AJS never considered it either.

[Rewulf]

 

No he's not wrong but you're twisting the context to suit your argument. You have to hold over at silly yardage but you don't hold over or under at any yardage when shooting at regular shotgun ranges.

 

Im twisting the context?

One last time ,the OP wondered why his gun shoots high at 10 yards,and I tried to explain it.

99% of sporting guns will shoot high at 10 yards,I have one that shoots high at 25 yards,but its a cheap gun.

Why do YOU think that is ?

You have done nothing to answer the OPs question,except spouting about 'scatter guns' and 'there is no drop' when even basic physics says otherwise.

Again , I never said you have to hold over, the gun is designed to do it for you,so at your 'ideal' range,call it zero range if you like, of around 30 yards the target should be centre of pattern.

Now ,you could say that doesnt matter either ,as long as you break the clay,kill the target ect.

But you have more chance of doing so if you do,can you at least agree with that?

[wymberley]

 

Im twisting the context?

One last time ,the OP wondered why his gun shoots high at 10 yards,and I tried to explain it.

99% of sporting guns will shoot high at 10 yards,I have one that shoots high at 25 yards,but its a cheap gun.

Why do YOU think that is ?

You have done nothing to answer the OPs question,except spouting about 'scatter guns' and 'there is no drop' when even basic physics says otherwise.

Again , I never said you have to hold over, the gun is designed to do it for you,so at your 'ideal' range,call it zero range if you like, of around 30 yards the target should be centre of pattern.

Now ,you could say that doesnt matter either ,as long as you break the clay,kill the target ect.

But you have more chance of doing so if you do,can you at least agree with that?

Where can I buy one?

[Rewulf]

Where can I buy one?

You already own one.

[Westward]

 

Again , I never said you have to hold over, the gun is designed to do it for you,so at your 'ideal' range,call it zero range if you like, of around 30 yards the target should be centre of pattern.

"The gun is designed to do it for you"... Really?.. Wherever did you get that idea?.. The reason a gun shoots slightly above the so-called point of aim is so that it can be pointed, as opposed to aimed like a rifle. To point at an object using a finger for example, normally requires that the finger be held just below the line of sight. Shotguns are no different and that's why most people ignore or sometimes even remove the bead.

 

For all practical purposes the gun shoots where you point it. Shot drop within the normal shooting range is not a consideration for either shooters or shotgun designers.

[wymberley]

Gosh all those calculations. Had I thought about that 45 years ago I would NEVER have started.

 

I'm a swing through, keep the momentum going and pull trigger. No time to work all those figures out.

 

I bet AJS never considered it either.

I bet he did. A competitive shooter who wishes to win and enjoy the fruits of doing so is going to ensure that he leaves nothing to chance. Should he do so and comes up against another competitor of equal skill but who didn't, then it's odds on that he's going to come second.

[Rewulf]

"The gun is designed to do it for you"... Really?.. Wherever did you get that idea?.. Look at an O/U or a S/A from the side, is the barrel parallel to the rib? Why isnt it ? The reason a gun shoots slightly above the so-called point of aim is so that it can be pointed, as opposed to aimed like a rifle. You cant aim a shotgun because it has no rear sight,the bead is a point of reference. To point at an object using a finger for example, normally requires that the finger be held just below the line of sight.Not arguing with that,never did. Shotguns are no different and that's why most people ignore or sometimes even remove the bead. Really ?

 

For all practical purposes the gun shoots where you point it. It wouldnt be a very good gun that didnt Shot drop within the normal shooting range is not a consideration for either shooters or shotgun designers. Again ,I NEVER SAID IT DID.

[Hamster]

 

Im twisting the context?

One last time ,the OP wondered why his gun shoots high at 10 yards,and I tried to explain it.

99% of sporting guns will shoot high at 10 yards,I have one that shoots high at 25 yards,but its a cheap gun.

Why do YOU think that is ?

You have done nothing to answer the OPs question,except spouting about 'scatter guns' and 'there is no drop' when even basic physics says otherwise.

Again , I never said you have to hold over, the gun is designed to do it for you,so at your 'ideal' range,call it zero range if you like, of around 30 yards the target should be centre of pattern.

Now ,you could say that doesnt matter either ,as long as you break the clay,kill the target ect.

But you have more chance of doing so if you do,can you at least agree with that?

 

Shotguns are scatter guns . I never said there is no drop, merely that it is irrelevant.

[B25Modelman]

I bet he did. A competitive shooter who wishes to win and enjoy the fruits of doing so is going to ensure that he leaves nothing to chance. Should he do so and comes up against another competitor of equal skill but who didn't, then it's odds on that he's going to come second.

If you watch and listen to his coaching videos he does not mention it. I also saw and stood next him for real and then he never did.

[Hamster]

It's no different to people who shoot high velocity rifles zero'd for a given range but which they can aim dead on for closer and further ranges, the up and down factor IS there but of little consequence. They have to make allowances when shooting beyond the intended "sweet" yardage, same as what GD had to do.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Hamster

[wymberley]

I think we're all at sixes and sevens. A shotgun barrel is designed to throw pellets in a straight line. Consequently, if the barrel is pointing at point 'x' that's where the pellets will strike. Yep, there are various rib profiles designed to achieve certain objectives. It matters not a jot as the pellets will still strike where the barrel is pointing. The only way to ensure that the pellets end up where you want them is purely and simply based upon two relationships: that of the barrel to the stock profile which we'll call, 'the gun' and that between the gun and the physical characteristics of the shooter. Yes, we take advantage of the gunmakers' skill in allowing us to see the target but if that advantage is offset by the fact that the two relationships are not met and fail to suit the individual shooter, then they can't do the job that they were intended for. Straightforward really.

[Rewulf]

It's no different to people who shoot high velocity rifles zero'd for a given range but which they can aim dead on for closer and further ranges, the up and down factor IS there but of little consequence. They have to make allowances when shooting beyond the intended "sweet" yardage, same as what GD had to do.

 

This is true,but drop is there ,but is compensated by the zero range.

On a shotgun you dont think about this,and you dont need to.

People talk about flat trajectories,but there is no such thing.

There are flatter trajectories that give you a bigger kill zone window.

HMR for instance ,zeroed at 100y is good for between 60 and 120y depending on scope height.

But its only that good because of the 100 yard zero.

Zero it at 50 y and its only good for 35 to 70.

Of course you can hold under or over to compensate.

[armourer103]

getting far too invoved for me, if your close youl kill it if not you miss, thats why its a shotgun and not a rifle,

[motty]

Rewulf, I don't know why you're trying to explain yourself out of what you said. Shotgun pellet drop is of very little significance at normal ranges and in normal conditions, especially at the 30 yards you originally mentioned.

[EdSolomons]

Ive learned so much I never knew on this thread!

Edited November 17, 2016 by EdSolomons

[Old farrier]

Ive learned so much I never knew on this thread!

Me to 😊😊😊

[Rewulf]

Rewulf, I don't know why you're trying to explain yourself out of what you said. Shotgun pellet drop is of very little significance at normal ranges and in normal conditions, especially at the 30 yards you originally mentioned.

 

Ok ,I give in, youre right, Im wrong.

There is no drop at 30 yards .

In fact shot continues on a straight path until it hits something.

If it doesnt, it will in fact attain low earth orbit, this is a serious problem,creating 'space junk' and the film Gravity shows what happens when too many shotgun users miss their targets.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said it was of any significance!

[Guest cookoff013]

is it true, that every time i shoot a cartridge it changes the rotation of the earth?

 

last week i went shooting, then the moon came awfully close...... i`ve been hiding under the bed since then.

[wymberley]

is it true, that every time i shoot a cartridge it changes the rotation of the earth?

 

last week i went shooting, then the moon came awfully close...... i`ve been hiding under the bed since then.

 

Of course it's true. Imagine, if we all faced the sun and fired at once, being flat the planet would take off like a bird from the high tower and if timed right we could 'Collide With Mars'.

[Rewulf]

is it true, that every time i shoot a cartridge it changes the rotation of the earth?

 

last week i went shooting, then the moon came awfully close...... i`ve been hiding under the bed since then.

 

It really depends on which direction you shoot in.

East obviously will slow the earths rotation down.

West speeds us up,this is why most sporting layouts tend to be in different directions to even it out.

And skeet and DTL are usually orientated north or south (neutral)

Game shooters just dont care!