big ESS

[Mice!]

Not sure if this is any use to anyone I looked at this thread a while back, but I was out walking down the river the other day and came across a big spaniel, he was eye ball to eye ball with my Gsp and looked to easily out weigh him, my pooch is about 63cm at the shoulder so he looked a big lad but everything looked in proportion and he was moving well??

[pudbas]

just checked mine hes rytex and badgercourt 10 year old solid dog would love another big spaniel but carnt find them

[Yellow Bear]

Not sure if this is any use to anyone I looked at this thread a while back, but I was out walking down the river the other day and came across a big spaniel, he was eye ball to eye ball with my Gsp and looked to easily out weigh him, my pooch is about 63cm at the shoulder so he looked a big lad but everything looked in proportion and he was moving well??

at that size possibly a Munsterlander

[Mice!]

No not a Munster, I will ask the fella next time i see him where he got him from, brown and white by the way

[Mickthemiller]

Lost my Springer Breeze to cancer this week, to have him put to sleep was toughest decision I have had to make, very hard to take he was a very big dog 35kgs not fat unfortunately he was to big for his legs had a new hip in December just started to run around again then that happens, I was hoping to show a picture of him but not able to on this blog.

Mick

[d foxxer]

Must admit i've been trying to source a big springer and new flame is the only kennel thats ever came up.

 

Is there any other kennels breeding old fashioned dogs?

 

I have an absolute belter in around 30kg, same size as my labs, think he's 9 now but still working well, i've never seen such a dog for finding/pegging game esp grouse.

He's found quite a few grouse now in front of head keepers and moor owners that a rake of other dogs have tried and failed on, always nce when u get a good retrieve/find in front of somebody., Being honest a lot of it is luck with wind/scent but he's luckier than most.

Unfortunately another 1 ball wonder, been asked to use him to line a few bitches over the years but always turned it down incase it was herditary,no point in breeding off bad stock

 

Just looked at my springer pedigree and a lot of Bdgercourt (prob 40% ) does the badger court line still exist? last 3 badgercourt were Moss, Druid and Saracen 3/4 generations back

I got badgercourt in my spangle he is bigger than all of my mates dogs I didn't notice until a few people remarked that he was quite a big springer

[Lloyd90]

I am currently reading up on Givendale dogs just for enjoyment, he has some videos on YouTube now.You can watch his dog hunting. 
 

Just my opinion but they don’t seem to be any faster or any better hunters than any of the modern FT stuff that I have seen, or have any magical stamina apart from good conditioning they I reckon could be put into most dogs. 

Im not sure they’re that big, just well coloured. 
 

I believe some of Jeremy Organ (Edgegrove) dogs go back to Badgercourt lines and he is known for liking a good sized dog. 
 

 

 

 

I have a field trial bred dog (Ted) that looks taller. Edwardiana/Killhoppmoss x Barcudwen Lines. 
 

If anyone wants a good sized stud then I’ve put Ted to health tested and he is clear of all genetic conditions. I am looking for a bitch to put him to now to see what he throws. 

As you can see from the picture, he has no problem putting birds in the bag. 
 

Think I will buy a go pro to video out trips this year  

 

[Krico woodcock]

On 03/05/2021 at 15:49, Lloyd90 said:

I am currently reading up on Givendale dogs just for enjoyment, he has some videos on YouTube now.You can watch his dog hunting. 
 

Just my opinion but they don’t seem to be any faster or any better hunters than any of the modern FT stuff that I have seen, or have any magical stamina apart from good conditioning they I reckon could be put into most dogs. 

Im not sure they’re that big, just well coloured. 
 

I believe some of Jeremy Organ (Edgegrove) dogs go back to Badgercourt lines and he is known for liking a good sized dog. 
 

 

 

 

I have a field trial bred dog (Ted) that looks taller. Edwardiana/Killhoppmoss x Barcudwen Lines. 
 

If anyone wants a good sized stud then I’ve put Ted to health tested and he is clear of all genetic conditions. I am looking for a bitch to put him to now to see what he throws. 

As you can see from the picture, he has no problem putting birds in the bag. 
 

Think I will buy a go pro to video out trips this year  

 

Hi Lioyd90, givensdale spaniels are being "promoted" as being old style, big springers. But I wouldn't class them as this style of springer. I have no doubt they are good dog's. But I don't know if they are the real deal if you are looking for big strong blocks of springers. To try and gauge a dog on it's hunting on video is also next to impossible, especially where drive, stamina comes into it. Only way is see a dog work for your self. Take a dog out at nine in the morning, heavy cover, woodcock shooting. When that dog is still working cover and flushing woodcock at four o clock  or after,  Then stand at a flood at flight time for a duck You have a proper working springer. As I said in a post on a different topic, these dogs exist, but most lads that have breed them,do mind there breeding, They don't breed them for money ,it's to keep the breed going,

[Lloyd90]

22 minutes ago, Krico woodcock said:

Hi Lioyd90, givensdale spaniels are being "promoted" as being old style, big springers. But I wouldn't class them as this style of springer. I have no doubt they are good dog's. But I don't know if they are the real deal if you are looking for big strong blocks of springers. To try and gauge a dog on it's hunting on video is also next to impossible, especially where drive, stamina comes into it. Only way is see a dog work for your self. Take a dog out at nine in the morning, heavy cover, woodcock shooting. When that dog is still working cover and flushing woodcock at four o clock  or after,  Then stand at a flood at flight time for a duck You have a proper working springer. As I said in a post on a different topic, these dogs exist, but most lads that have breed them,do mind there breeding, They don't breed them for money ,it's to keep the breed going,

I think the biggest issue for most people these days, is probably having land that you can start hunting at 9am and still be going at 4pm and still flushing birds. 
 

The land area would need to be massive, and the game numbers obviously would need to be somewhat decent. 
 

This is where the Irish benefit in that they have large areas of very wild and undeveloped land. 
 

Do you know anyone with the type of dog you describe? 

 

[Krico woodcock]

19 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I think the biggest issue for most people these days, is probably having land that you can start hunting at 9am and still be going at 4pm and still flushing birds. 
 

The land area would need to be massive, and the game numbers obviously would need to be somewhat decent. 
 

This is where the Irish benefit in that they have large areas of very wild and undeveloped land. 
 

Do you know anyone with the type of dog you describe? 

 

That would make a obvious difference if you have not got available land and type of cover to get a dog fit enough and develop stamina. But I do believe stamina is bred in a dog, I have seen dogs with ample ground but never have the stamina, They will have maybe 3 hour's hunting then battery runs flat. That type of dog would not suit me. but Alot of lads might only do 3 or 4 hours on a Sunday morning so a good hunting dog with 3 hour's in it will be 100%. It's all about what Is needed  in a dog. I do alot of duck shooting and woodcock shooting.i expect my dogs to work as well in  water,heavy Rush, sally etc for ducks as I do to Hunt pheasant but mainly woodcock on land. 

[wj939]

On 03/05/2021 at 15:49, Lloyd90 said:

I am currently reading up on Givendale dogs just for enjoyment, he has some videos on YouTube now.You can watch his dog hunting. 
 

Just my opinion but they don’t seem to be any faster or any better hunters than any of the modern FT stuff that I have seen, or have any magical stamina apart from good conditioning they I reckon could be put into most dogs. 

Im not sure they’re that big, just well coloured. 
 

I believe some of Jeremy Organ (Edgegrove) dogs go back to Badgercourt lines and he is known for liking a good sized dog. 
 

 

 

 

I have a field trial bred dog (Ted) that looks taller. Edwardiana/Killhoppmoss x Barcudwen Lines. 
 

If anyone wants a good sized stud then I’ve put Ted to health tested and he is clear of all genetic conditions. I am looking for a bitch to put him to now to see what he throws. 

As you can see from the picture, he has no problem putting birds in the bag. 
 

Think I will buy a go pro to video out trips this year  

 

There won’t be many that don’t go back to a badger court Moss or Druid....even if the papers say otherwise! 
 

Moss was an incredible spaniel, possibly one of the most successful ever, despite never winning the championship. 

[Jim Neal]

Badgercourt Gryphon features in quite a few springer pedigrees I've studied, including my last two at 5th gen up.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick about that kennel?  I was told by someone a while ago that Badgercourt bred the little rinky-dinky slim springers... is it the other way around?

On 05/05/2021 at 14:31, Lloyd90 said:

I think the biggest issue for most people these days, is probably having land that you can start hunting at 9am and still be going at 4pm and still flushing birds. 

Never mind the dog or the land, how many of US would still be raring to go after that sort of day?  Not me!

Edited May 7, 2021 by Jim Neal

[Lloyd90]

3 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Badgercourt Gryphon features in quite a few springer pedigrees I've studied, including my last two at 5th gen up.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick about that kennel?  I was told by someone a while ago that Badgercourt bred the little rinky-dinky slim springers... is it the other way around?

Never mind the dog or the land, how many of US would still be raring to go after that sort of day?  Not me!

It’s Rytex your thinking about. 
The small, flashy, dinky things. 
 

Badgercourt were supposedly the bud stocky and heavily marked dogs. 
 

 

 

Agree with you at the end, can’t see many folk who’d even want to do a 7+ hour hunt. 
 

Imagine running a dog for 4+ hours and after that saying “this dog got no stamina” 🤣🤷‍♂️. 
 

 

It’s like running a lurcher on 100+ rabbits a night and saying it’s got no stamina cos it get bit tired after 85 🤣

[malmick]

This is one of my lads, he's got a fair bit of Badgercourt in him, good solid shoulders and a strong worker.

[Jim Neal]

18 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

It’s Rytex your thinking about. 
The small, flashy, dinky things. 
 

Badgercourt were supposedly the bud stocky and heavily marked dogs. 
 

 

 

Agree with you at the end, can’t see many folk who’d even want to do a 7+ hour hunt. 
 

Imagine running a dog for 4+ hours and after that saying “this dog got no stamina” 🤣🤷‍♂️. 
 

 

It’s like running a lurcher on 100+ rabbits a night and saying it’s got no stamina cos it get bit tired after 85 🤣

Ah I see, thanks.  Rytex Rod and Rob of Rytex seemed to have been very popular sires too, they're ancestors of mine at 4th gen... some other Rytex at 5th.  My boy I lost last December was around the 22kg mark in his prime, fairly compact, slender along the back and hips but built like a weightlifter in the shoulders/chest/forelegs.  He could pull a train!

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Ah I see, thanks.  Rytex Rod and Rob of Rytex seemed to have been very popular sires too, they're ancestors of mine at 4th gen... some other Rytex at 5th.  My boy I lost last December was around the 22kg mark in his prime, fairly compact, slender along the back and hips but built like a weightlifter in the shoulders/chest/forelegs.  He could pull a train!

Sounds like the pup I’ve got at the moment. 
 

He weighed as much as the older dog at 8 months, but is a lot leaner. 
 

I think he will be between 22-25kg when fully grown, he will be a big dog with some proper go in him. 
 

 

 

 

Some of the older Badgercourt / Rytex names are in pretty much every pedigree you pick up. 
 

As you say, prolific stud dogs. 
 

Does make me mind boggle though when someone advertises pups and says “Loads of FTCH in pedigree” and they’re all 4-5 generations back and exactly the same as anything else out there. 

[hawkfanz]

thats small compared to my 9 year old bitch she weighs in at 36 kg,came from a breeder near breckon.

[Jim Neal]

Wow that's double some springers!

[Lloyd90]

On 08/05/2021 at 13:58, hawkfanz said:

thats small compared to my 9 year old bitch she weighs in at 36 kg,came from a breeder near breckon.

 

Got any pictures? 

Be nice to see her confirmation.

 

See a lot of people posting about their 'big springers' online etc, a fair few of them are just overfed to be blunt. 

Not many about that are proper big dogs, be nice to see.

 

I saw one at a test last year, the dog was huge, but a bit fat as well, to be fair to smashed ground like a bulldozer. I remember it hit one stick pile and sticks as thick as your leg were flying in all directions. 

 

[hawkfanz]

here she is with har rottie playmate.

[WelshAndy]

My old mans spaniel was a monster, big traditional looking spaniel 😎

[hawkfanz]

maybe they breed em big in wales,nice lookin dog.

 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, hawkfanz said:

here she is with har rottie playmate.

Some size on her mate 👍🏻 What was she like? 

[hawkfanz]

she will do anything to retrieve a bird,we once shot 2 flight ponds 5 guns she picked up every bird that was down,including the pond that we werent on,she was the only dog we had on that occasion,trouble is i cant keep her out of water no matter how stinky it is,

[archi]

This is dog I bred out of a badgercourt bitch to one of Jack Iliffes dogs

goes about 22-25kgs is quite a leggy dog