12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Oh dear, https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/883259/european-union-eu-finance-france-italy-spending/amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Oh dear, https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/883259/european-union-eu-finance-france-italy-spending/amp Sorry mate you cant use that, its from the 'biased so its fake news' express This ones OK though https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-22/france-italy-get-eu-warning-over-debt-levels-spending-plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just now, Rewulf said: Sorry mate you cant use that, its from the 'biased so its fake news' express This ones OK though https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-22/france-italy-get-eu-warning-over-debt-levels-spending-plans ??? Cheers mate, wouldn't want to be accused of spreading fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 3 hours ago, poontang said: Where did I say he didn't look very good? I said he failed to justify the video he'd been a part of making when confronted with the fact that he'd deliberately misquoted people to strengthen his argument. That's not an ad hominem. The argument is simple... was the video put out by Open Britain a true and honest account of what the people it showed had said about Brexit? The answer is No, it wasn't. No conflation, no strawman argument and no ad hominem. Simply put, you took quotes and passed them off as fact. The same quotes as were used by Open Britain and were shown to be false. Why don't you just admit you fell for the lies of Open Britain without checking out the full facts? You persist in misrepresenting this. They are true quotes. They were misconstrued out of context by one person saying they meant one thing. I am saying that in their context they say something else. It is logically fallacious to suggest that because the man in your video is wrong, that I am also wrong. I'm not certain the matter can be explained any more simply so I'm going to leave it there I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/8/2017 at 12:43, 12gauge82 said: There's unfortunately always going to be winners and losers with any big change, on the whole the fishing industry as a whole will be one of the biggest benefactors from brexit, no doubt about it. About bloody time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 UK debt won't fall to pre-credit crunch levels until the 2060s as workers face two DECADES of lost earnings growth and austerity is NOT over, warns respected IFS think-tank http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5111277/Workers-face-two-DECADES-lost-earnings-IFS-warns.html You won't hear me say it often (hell it's not often the case) but fair play to the Mail for acknowledging that the IFS is probably our most respected financial analyst group. 20 years of list wage growth, while the Redwoods of the world mop up at our expense and tell us it's the fault of the guy on benefits next door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 You've got to laugh, remoaners will go to any length to further their cause when it suits. Now the Mail is OK, any other time it's known as the Daily Wail, not to mention the Express.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Granett said: UK debt won't fall to pre-credit crunch levels until the 2060s as workers face two DECADES of lost earnings growth and austerity is NOT over, warns respected IFS think-tank http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5111277/Workers-face-two-DECADES-lost-earnings-IFS-warns.html You won't hear me say it often (hell it's not often the case) but fair play to the Mail for acknowledging that the IFS is probably our most respected financial analyst group. 20 years of list wage growth, while the Redwoods of the world mop up at our expense and tell us it's the fault of the guy on benefits next door. I really don't see what this has to do with Brexit, we haven't even left yet, this is a culmination of many factors including stagnation of productivity, the last financial crash, frozen pay and many other factors, nothing or very little to do with Brexit, how can it be, we haven't left yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: You've got to laugh, remoaners will go to any length to further their cause when it suits. Now the Mail is OK, any other time it's known as the Daily Wail, not to mention the Express.. It's in all the proper papers too, it just has more traction here if it's in the Express or the Mail. Quite the opposite of "going to any lengths" - it's actually a case of allowing for the audience. And no need for the pejoratives. Let's see if we can keep it civil. 6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I really don't see what this has to do with Brexit, we haven't even left yet, this is a culmination of many factors including stagnation of productivity, the last financial crash, frozen pay and many other factors, nothing or very little to do with Brexit, how can it be, we haven't left yet? It's a forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Meanwhile American governor slams EU ransom https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/22/u-s-governor-urges-brits-stand-eu-britain-permission/amp/ 3 minutes ago, Granett said: It's in all the proper papers too, it just has more traction here if it's in the Express or the Mail. Quite the opposite of "going to any lengths" - it's actually a case of allowing for the audience. And no need for the pejoratives. Let's see if we can keep it civil. It's a forecast. Yes a foreast due to all the factors I just mentioned, not brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Quote It's in all the proper papers too Yet you quote the Mail, I'm not having a pop either, but it just proves remoaners cherry pick to further their cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 In other news, it appears "the UK honours it's commitments" where as the EU doesn't, more double standards from the corrupt super state. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/883256/Brexit-latest-European-Union-UK-budget-rebate-Margaret-Thatcher-Michel-Barnier/amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Yet you quote the Mail, I'm not having a pop either, but it just proves remoaners cherry pick to further their cause. I quoted the Mail for your sake. I was doing you a favour. If I'd quoted the Telegraph... National debt won’t fall to pre crisis levels until 2060s, IFS warns as think tank boss jokes he will be dead before it happens I'd be accused of posted lefty anti Brexit propaganda, like I was the last time I quoted from the Telegraph. It's harder for the Daily Mail to be disputed on here. I can't quite believe this is the point that's being made here. Does any Brexiteer want to do the decent thing and explain that this isn't really the Brexit point scoring moment, Bazooka Joe seems to think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 But it doesn't change the fact it has nothing to do with Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Meanwhile American governor slams EU ransom https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/22/u-s-governor-urges-brits-stand-eu-britain-permission/amp/ Yes a foreast due to all the factors I just mentioned, not brexit Breitbart? Well it makes a change from the Express I guess. 19 years of the forecast will be in a state of post Brexit. I thought Brexit was supposed to bring economic ambrosia. You seem to be saying it'll make no difference to a decline that was always going to happen. Edited November 23, 2017 by Granett Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) Right then one thing is becoming pretty obvious, whether its due to Brexit or not it is pretty irrelevant. Organisations which apparently understand this type of situation are predicting we are in for a pretty tough time for up to the next 20 years. Plus headline news in The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/23/britain-must-accept-immigrants-wants-free-trade-deal-warns-senior/ looks like another type of immigration may well be on their way here. So Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, middle Brexit, No Brexit etc, lots to look forward to in the next few years. Now I'm taking all of this with a huge pinch of salt i'm just joining in with the craic. Cheers Aled Edited November 23, 2017 by Aled Typo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said: But it doesn't change the fact it has nothing to do with Brexit. Do you adhere to the scientific school of thought? If so can you come up with a disprovable test to show that there is any evidence for Brexit being the cause of anything bad you would acknowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Quote I quoted the Mail for your sake. I was doing you a favour. Nope...your not doing me any favours......your cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Of course there are pro's and con's to Brexit, you'd be a fool to think there wasn't negatives, but on the whole I truly believe it is a huge positive step forwards yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Granett said: Breitbart? Well it makes a change from the Express I guess. 19 years of the forecast will be in a state of post Brexit. I thought Brexit was supposed to bring economic ambrosia. You seem to be saying it'll make no difference to a decline that was always going to happen. What' wrong with this my source now?? Not at all, you do like to stretch and twist people's quotes, you'd make a cracking barrister, if I ever need one I'm going to ask you to represent me, I don' care if your a green grocer ?. Brexit isn't the answer to the entire country's problem, just a good first step in the right direction, the finanial problems of this country long before Brexit was even on peoples minds let alone the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Granett said: You persist in misrepresenting this. They are true quotes. They were misconstrued out of context by one person saying they meant one thing. I am saying that in their context they say something else. It is logically fallacious to suggest that because the man in your video is wrong, that I am also wrong. I'm not certain the matter can be explained any more simply so I'm going to leave it there I think. I've misrepresented nothing. They are NOT true quotes, the are misconstrued and out of context by the person who made the video. They are the quotes you used to back an argument you were making (you didn't use the full context of the quotes to 'say something else' because you didn't know the full context until after I posted the video) so yes, as the man in the video was wrong and you used his false narrative to back your argument, you are wrong too. You've used false information to push your point... in exactly the same way Open Britain did with their video. I think it's probably best you leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 12 hours ago, Granett said: It's in all the proper papers too, it just has more traction here if it's in the Express or the Mail. Quite the opposite of "going to any lengths" - it's actually a case of allowing for the audience. And no need for the pejoratives. Let's see if we can keep it civil. It's a forecast. I always look forward to your responses when it comes to Brexit Granett Whilst I struggle to believe you have the necessary conviction for the debate, its always interesting where you end up with it. The problem is, its not really a debate when you have no intention whatsoever of trying to see the other parties point of view. After trying to preach to the converted, contradicting yourself, and attempting various deflections, you follow the predictable path of 'its a strawman argument' or 'thats logically fallacious', ad hominem ect. Then when all else fails,and the faults in your arguments are pointed out, you resort to veiled insults to the memberships lack of intellectuality, and THEN ask for civility Your argument finishes when you insinuate that we are too thick to understand your position, so you are now going to disengage. 13 hours ago, Granett said: It is logically fallacious to suggest that because the man in your video is wrong, that I am also wrong. I'm not certain the matter can be explained any more simply so I'm going to leave it there I think. 12 hours ago, Granett said: I quoted the Mail for your sake. I was doing you a favour. If I'd quoted the Telegraph... It's harder for the Daily Mail to be disputed on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) Someone's been to a fake news /alt-facts workshop, I think! Meanwhile, outside the pages of the Express... In case anyone tries to tell you that it's the EU that requires the hard border in Ireland:- https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-d370-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9 As the weeks pass, so the ideas get sillier. One circulating among certain Brexiters at the moment is that the UK could gain the upper hand over the Ireland issue by simply leaving the Irish border open after Brexit, charging no tariffs and making no inspections, and dare the EU to be the first to put up customs posts. For a post-Brexit UK to charge no tariffs on imports from the EU would be a massive breach of the rules of the World Trade Organization, which operates on a “most-favoured nation” (MFN) principle of equal treatment. This can be overridden if two or more members sign a formal bilateral or regional trade agreement among themselves. But it will take years for the UK to agree a trade deal with the EU: Britain cannot simply pre-empt it by holding tariffs at zero from the off. If the UK discriminates in this way, it will be vulnerable to widespread litigation in the WTO. This will come at a time when the UK is attempting to regularise its position in the organisation, in which it has hitherto been represented by the EU. The UK is dependent on the goodwill of other WTO members in the tricky question of splitting the EU’s existing commitments on food import quotas. It must also establish its position in the WTO’s government procurement agreement which gives its companies the right to bid for public tenders abroad. Arriving on the scene while creating one of the biggest breaches of WTO law in the organisation’s existence probably isn’t the way to get other countries on side. Of course, the UK could fulfil the MFN principle by immediately offering zero tariffs to every WTO member. Domestically, that would be politically disastrous. British farmers shelter behind EU tariffs that can rise to more than 50 per cent for beef and lamb. Sweeping them away would lead to mass bankruptcies as cheaper Brazilian and Australian produce flooded in. Even in manufacturing, where tariffs are lower, accepting, say, cars at a zero rather than the current 10 per cent duty would have some serious repercussions. And the UK has its own obligations to think about. Even if the UK promised to comply with EU product and hygiene regulations in perpetuity, border controls also function as an enforcement agency for a wide variety of laws including restricting counterfeits, ensuring environmental safety, deterring human smuggling, protecting industrial and commercial property and safeguarding national treasures. Some of these are obligations directly on the UK as a signatory to United Nations charters. Leaving the border open would thus expose the UK as an eccentric, irresponsible global citizen, not a terrific way to launch boldly into the world as an independent trading nation. If would be extraordinary if even this beleaguered government genuinely tried the crude and ignorant bluff of threatening to leave the border open. To the extent that anyone should take it seriously, it is as an exercise in pre-emptive blame-shifting with regard to British public opinion rather than a coherent plan." Edited November 28, 2017 by Granett Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Anger at redacted Brexit papers unites MPs https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/anger-at-redacted-papers-unites-mps-xx69spm9c Presumably the Express is telling everyone that this is because the forecast for Brexit is just too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 EU still trying to punish us I see. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/884322/Brexit-news-Brexit-latest-BBC-Brexit-German-MEP-Brexit-trade-Brexit-news-now/amp May urged to press ahead with no deal by buisness leaders. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-41672817 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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