TriBsa Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Yes another excellent post, which is why they are so afraid of Nigel Farage But not as afraid as they would be if we had a presidential system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gordon R said: Perhaps someone could explain why someone can come into the country, earn a low wage and claim benefits for wife / children who are not living in the UK. In this instance - legitimate family, let alone those who claim for disabled triplets, who don't exist. The fact is that this is relatively commonplace, but just why do we tolerate it? Lol. The appeal to self evident truth is definitely the logical fallacy of choice here isn't it. All said with such certainty. No doubt the Express said it so it must be true. Edited December 9, 2017 by Granett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 Granett - just because you are clueless as to the reality, it does not make it less real. Stick to what you think you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: Granett - just because you are clueless as to the reality, it does not make it less real. Stick to what you think you know. Lol. Your manners really are appalling. Just keeping telling people to shut up if they disagree with the bilge that you unthinkingly regurgitate from the Express. Edited December 9, 2017 by Granett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 I don't read the Express, but apparently you do. It explains your ignorance. As for manners - I am surprised you can even spell the word. I haven't told anyone to "shut up", but in your case - you need to take your own advice. Sorry, I forgot - in the World of Granett, only Granett's opinion matters - however delusional it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 53 minutes ago, Gordon R said: I don't read the Express, but apparently you do. It explains your ignorance. As for manners - I am surprised you can even spell the word. I haven't told anyone to "shut up", but in your case - you need to take your own advice. Sorry, I forgot - in the World of Granett, only Granett's opinion matters - however delusional it is. It's hilarious how threatened and defensive people are about their fragile ideas! You need to ask yourself why talking things through makes you so angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 Guys now don't worry if we don't like the Brexit deal on the table we can change it at the next election.....it must be true because Michael Gove said it and you know he is a politician! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-latest-updates-michael-gove-divorce-terms-eu-theresa-may-a8100811.html Cheers Aled ps I know that the link I have is the Independent but it was the first one I found, he has said the same to the BBC and the Telegraph but I couldn't be bothered to put more than 1 link up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 Gove is as big a lying traitor as May and Boris. What utter ******** he spouts, if we don't like it *** does he think any of us who voted Brexit have actually swallowed it as a triumph or not seen it as the total and utter betrayal that it is. Oh for a modern day Guy Fawkes to have success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, JRDS said: Gove is as big a lying traitor as May and Boris. What utter ******** he spouts, if we don't like it *** does he think any of us who voted Brexit have actually swallowed it as a triumph or not seen it as the total and utter betrayal that it is. Oh for a modern day Guy Fawkes to have success. I wondered who'd be the first to reply in this vein......., didn't expect it to be a Leave person though...(tongue very firmly in cheek) LOL right time for a drink Cheers Aled Edited December 10, 2017 by Aled Typo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 Quote It's hilarious how threatened and defensive people are about their fragile ideas! You need to ask yourself why talking things through makes you so angry. Granett - don't flatter yourself. I find your self delusion quite amusing, but I have to say I genuinely feel sorry for you. I won't respond to any more posts on this thread, because you never listen to anything but your own voice. Feel free to have a another dig. I'm sure your ego will demand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Granett - don't flatter yourself. I find your self delusion quite amusing, but I have to say I genuinely feel sorry for you. I won't respond to any more posts on this thread, because you never listen to anything but your own voice. Feel free to have a another dig. I'm sure your ego will demand it. Your ego sets the standard, and it's not a standard that I see anybody else striving to achieve. Look inwards Gordon before you choose to attempt to belittle another debate contributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 hours ago, JRDS said: Gove is as big a lying traitor as May and Boris. What utter ******** he spouts, if we don't like it *** does he think any of us who voted Brexit have actually swallowed it as a triumph or not seen it as the total and utter betrayal that it is. Yes exactly how I feel to, along with millions of others I should imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 It does not matter that the salary earnt does not pay for the cost's incurred, if it did the UK would not function. Its's the contribution made to GDP that counts rather than the tax paid. The average salary in the UK is just £27k so based on Yod droppers figures very few people are making a contribution to cover their costs in tax alone. It's also fair to say that the that there are many that pay far more tax to the treasury than the average Brit. We need this immigration you boys's best get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Yes exactly how I feel to, along with millions of others I should imagine. I loathe Gove, but he's just saying what loads of people said on here, isn't he? This is the "sovereignty" that most Brexit votes were based on - the ability to control our MPs at the ballot box. In what way has that pricinple changed between then and now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 3 hours ago, oowee said: It does not matter that the salary earnt does not pay for the cost's incurred, if it did the UK would not function. Its's the contribution made to GDP that counts rather than the tax paid. The average salary in the UK is just £27k so based on Yod droppers figures very few people are making a contribution to cover their costs in tax alone. It's also fair to say that the that there are many that pay far more tax to the treasury than the average Brit. We need this immigration you boys's best get used to it. I think you need to take your globalist, rose tinted specs off for just a moment, and read that back to yourself. 27k is an 'average' so obviously many are paying more into the system. You will probably find the majority of those people are NOT migrants, so the higher earners not only have to pay to keep British born low/or no earners, they have to pay for the imported ones too, so why don't we get some more? I'm sure they will be well happy with that! Yes we need immigration, we need migrants who are going to pay taxes, not ones that come over to abuse the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Granett said: I loathe Gove, but he's just saying what loads of people said on here, isn't he? This is the "sovereignty" that most Brexit votes were based on - the ability to control our MPs at the ballot box. In what way has that pricinple changed between then and now? Yes but to use the fact we can vote someone else in as an excuse to not carry out what the country voted for isn't very good, your right our system is rubbish to, one step at a time though, Brexit is a great first step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I think you need to take your globalist, rose tinted specs off for just a moment, and read that back to yourself. 27k is an 'average' so obviously many are paying more into the system. You will probably find the majority of those people are NOT migrants, so the higher earners not only have to pay to keep British born low/or no earners, they have to pay for the imported ones too, so why don't we get some more? I'm sure they will be well happy with that! Yes we need immigration, we need migrants who are going to pay taxes, not ones that come over to abuse the system. Migrants per se just leads to an ever expanding population and a dilution of our culture. Why do we need to give settlement rights and ciizenship? If we have temporary skills gaps, then why not allow workers in on temporary visas to cover the shortfall. Unfettered third world migration leads inevitably to problems of social cohesion. Although this is not mainly about skills gaps for we are letting in the lesser educated and unskilled in the hundreds of thousands. It is about a deliberate plot to dilute our culture and national identity so that we sleep walk into the globalist's new world order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: I think you need to take your globalist, rose tinted specs off for just a moment, and read that back to yourself. 27k is an 'average' so obviously many are paying more into the system. You will probably find the majority of those people are NOT migrants, so the higher earners not only have to pay to keep British born low/or no earners, they have to pay for the imported ones too, so why don't we get some more? I'm sure they will be well happy with that! Yes we need immigration, we need migrants who are going to pay taxes, not ones that come over to abuse the system. https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0 European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of 20bn, say researchers. Those from the original 15 EU member states brought a net gain of15bn over the same period. By comparison the UK born population was a net cost. Maybe you need to look at the specs you wear or open your eyes to reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, oowee said: https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0 European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of 20bn, say researchers. Those from the original 15 EU member states brought a net gain of15bn over the same period. By comparison the UK born population was a net cost. Maybe you need to look at the specs you wear or open your eyes to reality? Lol. So immigrants pay more. And given the demographics of the Brexit vote, it's safe to say they contribute more than the average Brexiteer. Ironic to think there are Brexiteers out there essentially funded by the people they voted to have removed. Edited December 10, 2017 by Granett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 As I recall those figures were not the complete story. You have put European, the figures for those from elsewhere are negative by any measure and I think that was part of the dispute from some earlier research. As a whole, immigrants take out of the system by this measure. It isn't though just simple accounting with taxes in and benefits out as we receive much out of the system of a non-monetary value. This may be to do with health, education or national infrastructure so taxes in, benefits out is a bit disingenuous. There are other costs specific to this group such as the cost of language services. There are also other costs such as due to rapidly growing populations the need to spend on infrastructure which would otherwise not have been needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granett Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, TriBsa said: It is about a deliberate plot to dilute our culture and national identity so that we sleep walk into the globalist's new world order. Jeez. That's proper tinfoil hat level stuff. Does this feature a Deep State, and black helicopters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, oowee said: https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0 European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of 20bn, say researchers. Those from the original 15 EU member states brought a net gain of15bn over the same period. Oh ok then, so the more migrants we get in, the more money we get from them? And it's true, for every pound we put in to the EU we get 10 back!? Thats awesome! Makes you wonder why we're leaving then, with benefits like that Wanna buy some magic beans? Edited December 10, 2017 by Rewulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 48 minutes ago, yod dropper said: As I recall those figures were not the complete story. You have put European, the figures for those from elsewhere are negative by any measure and I think that was part of the dispute from some earlier research. As a whole, immigrants take out of the system by this measure. True but these were immigrants that we had full control over but were unable to manage. It isn't though just simple accounting with taxes in and benefits out as we receive much out of the system of a non-monetary value. This may be to do with health, education or national infrastructure so taxes in, benefits out is a bit disingenuous. There are other costs specific to this group such as the cost of language services. There are also other costs such as due to rapidly growing populations the need to spend on infrastructure which would otherwise not have been needed. Read the research prior to comment it will assist with your thought process. 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Oh ok then, so the more migrants we get in, the more money we get from them? And it's true, for every pound we put in to the EU we get 10 back!? Thats awesome! Makes you wonder why we're leaving then, with benefits like that I do wonder why and put it down to idealism and small island mentality. of the older voters. I look on the bright side with my rose tinted spec's 'it will be alright on the night '. It does not matter that I have already lost 10% of my sterling wealth and likely to loose another 10% following no deal as some of this is offset by euro assets . I just wish i had seen it coming so that I could get more offshore. Easy with hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, oowee said: I do wonder why and put it down to idealism and small island mentality. of the older voters. I look on the bright side with my rose tinted spec's 'it will be alright on the night '. It does not matter that I have already lost 10% of my sterling wealth and likely to loose another 10% following no deal as some of this is offset by euro assets . I just wish i had seen it coming so that I could get more offshore. Easy with hindsight. It you are talking about stocks or property, you havn't "lost ' anything yet. You believe your money is better in the euro? Fill your boots! Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater, future good, but that's just my small island idealism speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Granett said: Jeez. That's proper tinfoil hat level stuff. Does this feature a Deep State, and black helicopters? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public/amp Not so far fetched now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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