London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 H&H H&H H&H H&H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 H&H Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Dickson Dickson Armstrong 20b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Armstrong 20b Armstrong 20b Ugartechea Ugartechea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Army & Navy .410 Army & Navy .410 Army & Navy .410 W. Richards .410 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 W. Richards .410 W. Richards .410 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Fine looking Holland & Holland I must say ! You can`t store that in the same cabinet as a LIG for heavens sake, that`s outrageous ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 L.I.G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 If not mistaken ,the Armstrong 20b action used to be know in the trade as a "Rodger"due to the type of lock work that used a coil spring.After the patentee . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 To be perfectly honest Gunman, I have never had the Armstrong action to pieces, so I will bow to your (infinitely) greater knowledge. I am sure you are totally correct. @JJ Shot a lotta stuff with that old Lig! True cyl and quarter choke. Even been to Africa with me. Reblacked three times (salt mud). Worn the checkering off where my fingers sit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Totally magnificent Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Gunman said: If not mistaken ,the Armstrong 20b action used to be know in the trade as a "Rodger"due to the type of lock work that used a coil spring.After the patentee . Full marks, sir! I removed the Armstrong’s locks this morning and you are , of course, correct. Coil springs. The lock plates are stamped WB inside. Am I correct in thinking that this is not the famous Webley/Rodgers action? I always thought that was a 7 pin side lock. Perhaps you could enlighten me? Edited May 17, 2019 by London Best To add information on stamping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Not terribly well up on these so it would mean a little research .Just that those locks were always referred to as Rodgers in the Birmingham trade . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Forgot this one when posting the others! Ward, Birmingham, circa 1870. This was given to me to free up space in a friends cabinet, on the basis I should not sell it, oh, and could I tighten the action please! Forgot this one when posting the others! Ward, Birmingham, circa 1870. This was given to me to free up space in a friends cabinet, on the basis I should not sell it, oh, and could I tighten the action please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, London Best said: Am I correct in thinking that this is not the famous Webley/Rodgers action? I will have a browse through one of his books over the weekend and see if he has expanded on the his article on the web. However, if you follow the link below, Diggory Hadoak has a short article on the `Rogers / Webley` action. He describes it as a back-action sidelock ((mainspring behind the hammer (tumbler)) rather than a bar action; no mention of coil springs, although he points out that a number of modifications / improvements were carried out to the basic design over the years. https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/462-2/sidelocks/ Edited May 18, 2019 by JJsDad Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Is it at half cock or does it have rebounding locks ? If it does then I would have thought the gun was later than 1870. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Yes, it has rebounding locks, but also has pre 1875 proof marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Thanks for the link. I had actually seen it before but couldn’t remember where. That about sums it up. Very simply made action, definitely not of first quality, but with a coil spring horizontally behind the tumbler. Must be one of the later “improvements”. 3 hours ago, JJsDad said: I will have a browse through one of his books over the weekend and see if he has expanded on the his article on the web. However, if you follow the link below, Diggory Hadoak has a short article on the `Rogers / Webley` action. He describes it as a back-action sidelock ((mainspring behind the hammer (tumbler)) rather than a bar action; no mention of coil springs, although he points out that a number of modifications / improvements were carried out to the basic design over the years. https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/462-2/sidelocks/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 5 hours ago, London Best said: but with a coil spring horizontally behind the tumble I saw this type of lock (coil spring with a simple 2 pin bridle) a number of years ago when replacing a broken firing pin on a `Vickers` sidelock belonging to a friend of a friend. The locks were very simple and did not feature the normal interceptor sear normally associated with sidelocks. While externally the gun appeared as being of reasonable quality, the simplicity of the locks and the less than impressive standard of internal finish indicated it had been built-down to a price in an attempt to offer a sidelock, at boxlock prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 Yep, that’s the one. Two pin bridle, no intercepting sear, coil spring. The internal finish is not unimpressive but definitely not the best I have seen. However, if you look at the close-up pic of the fences that is very nicely done indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 40 minutes ago, London Best said: if you look at the close-up pic of the fences that is very nicely done indeed. The Vickers was similar; the engraving was well executed, reasonable wood, nice fences and everything in proportion; to the uninitiated it gave all the outward appearences of a typical mid-range British sidelock. It was only the two pins showing on each lock that led me to believe that that the internals were something out of the normal. Never seen another example of that style lock work since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 A local farmer friend has a 20b by Williams and Powell. That is a back action non ejector like my Armstrong but has zero engraving. When I can get another look at it I will check the action. Bet it’s the same gun. Being a farmer, it was sold to him as a William Powell sidelock ejector. He did not even realise it was non ejector until he showed it to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted May 18, 2019 Report Share Posted May 18, 2019 (edited) Today I got a new sxs. It's a George Bate 12G double trigger choked 1/4 and 1/4. I am very pleased with it as it fits jolly well. As my cabinet was getting a little crowded my Spanish sxs found a home with someone who had just had to sell their gun for financial reasons. A good day all around. Edited May 18, 2019 by ehb102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 It is a little beauty and with a few quid spent on some gentle restoration it will turn back in to a lovely gun. Shoots well too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 Enjoy seeing all the history that goes with older sxs. The H&H Royal must be the most copied action, I have a Gunmark Royale and you see the same action on many guns. Very nice example London Best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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