Only a matter of time

[Continental Shooter]

9 minutes ago, muncher said:

The problem I have with the steel  biodegradable fibre Cups is , big shot goes through the wad and will damage the barrel, untill they find a decent replacement I will use plastic on the coast.When we do our Marsh clean up we pick up tons  of plastic bottles and a few wads ,deal with plastic bottles then you will have achieve s something.

exactly my point but as said ..... it's easier to buy some fiber wad and blame all of us who use plastic (through choice or requirements) than going out and clear the real plastic problem (Bottles and bags) as some of us do

Edited June 29, 2018 by Continental Shooter

[turbo33]

4 minutes ago, Continental Shooter said:

same! i don't shoot much and unless is laid barley (or shore) in my area it's fairly easy to pick up wads over a decoys pattern. probably not achieving as much as 70-80 % but i am happy with whatever i can find. 

What strikes me though is this hate against wad when, all over the world the problem, is bottles and bags and all other polymer used for all different applications ...   

I think it's more ecofriendly to collect all plastic bag, bottles, crisp /chocolate  wraps you find around than change to fiber wad; but then again, i know it's easier to blame something than do something

 

Correct, plastic bottles, shopping bags etc. I am not blaming anyone for their choice of wad. Esca is also correct in respecting peoples choice.

Some of the pigeon shooters here will get through thousands of shells per year. In the perspective of plastic bottles, thats a huge amount of plastic bottles worth of wads left on the land, and is avoidable should the person shooting choose to do so. At some point this year, there will be a photo of empty cases that someone has found. And the logical comments follow about littering our countryside. I would imagine that there isn't a huge amount of difference in the amount of plastic in a case and that of a wad. So one isn't acceptable and the other is?

[JDog]

I'll get back to the discussion rather than the argument.

I have always used plastic wads. Last year a grateful farmer gave me a slab of Gamebore 30 grams in fibre wad. Never have I had so many wounded birds as I had with the first 50 shots. I tried them again with the same result and I gave the unused ones away. It must be said that I was shooting at pretty long birds.

It could have been my poor shooting of course but the difference between my normal cartridges with plastic wad and the Gamebore with fibre was dramatic.

I draw my own conclusions from this.

[stuartyboy]

Its great that people are actively picking up litter such as plastic bottles. That is good. What is even better is for people to reduce their use of plastic bottles etc on a daily basis.

But on the fields and woods I shoot there is very little or no litter. The only litter I see is the wads that have been left previously.

This is the point that should be realised. You can pick up as much litter as you want but if you're still leaving plastic wads everywhere, is it not a bit self defeating? Especially when the alternatives work just as well for the vast majority.

[turbo33]

10 minutes ago, JDog said:

I'll get back to the discussion rather than the argument.

I have always used plastic wads. Last year a grateful farmer gave me a slab of Gamebore 30 grams in fibre wad. Never have I had so many wounded birds as I had with the first 50 shots. I tried them again with the same result and I gave the unused ones away. It must be said that I was shooting at pretty long birds.

It could have been my poor shooting of course but the difference between my normal cartridges with plastic wad and the Gamebore with fibre was dramatic.

I draw my own conclusions from this.

Just out of curiosity Jdog, were you favoured plastic wad cartridges also Gamebore 30grms?  

[JDog]

2 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Just out of curiosity Jdog, were you favoured plastic wad cartridges also Gamebore 30grms?  

No they were Hull Cartridge company Superfasts in 29 grams. Another variable I know.

[stuartyboy]

In 1970 the worlds population was 3.7 billion. Its now 7.6 billion. That's over double in the life time of likely a lot of members of this forum. That's scary and is the real problem affecting the environment.

I'm under no illusion that the use, or not, of plastic wads is not going to be a determining factor in the environmental decline of the UK but its incumbent for all to reduce the detritus that they leave lying about. If not for environmental reasons for aesthetics

[Guest cookoff013]

personally its only our buying patterns that will change our manufacturers..

when steel shot plastic loads came out on the market they were shunned. but at £77/1000 shells they were irresistable. and on skeet too.

fibre wads cant even get close to this. 
shame.

[oowee]

I read somewhere a test of the degradation of fibre wads in the environment and I thought that they showed no degradation? 

I use only fibre because to try to minimise waste left behind but also i shoot on a land with cattle and they may end up eating them.

[turbo33]

2 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

personally its only our buying patterns that will change our manufacturers..

when steel shot plastic loads came out on the market they were shunned. but at £77/1000 shells they were irresistable. and on skeet too.

fibre wads cant even get close to this. 
shame.

Game set and match Cook?

[turbo33]

13 minutes ago, JDog said:

No they were Hull Cartridge company Superfasts in 29 grams. Another variable I know.

And maybe pattern density too with fibre throwing more open patterns? The Gamebore fibre are one of the slower cartridges out there at 1400ft/s, and the Superfasts 29grms in both plastic and fibre are 1450. The super fast 27grms in both plastic and fibre are 1500. More retained velocity over longer ranges/would 50ft/s difference interfere with our normal style/expectations?  Whether or not, that is a factor, I'm not qualified to say, one for Cook! 

I guess in some ways its like the argument for glasses, reading or long distance. Tight patterns through tight chokes at close ranges........require more accuracy and damage to to quarry.  Open patterns through open chokes at long ranges...less successful? Right cartridge and chokes for the distance I guess. 

 

 

 

[PPP]

7 hours ago, stevo said:

So you are against me using and other using plaswad  in the field, but your ok to use plaswad over water when your fouling? 

Haha what a double standard joke . 

The dophins are not going to be happy with you are they ?

Nope, I use Bismuth as i don't do much wild fowling so can wear the cost.

[PPP]

7 hours ago, motty said:

Lead is a given? You mean you fire off lead shot against your own will?

Lead is a given because of the lack of credible affordable alternative in the clay and game/vermin volumes i shoot.  Fortunately i don't need not too often but when i do i use fibre bismuth.  The point that you love overlooking is that there is an effective alternative to plastic litter but you enjoy winding people up bragging how you love to sling plastic into the environment which most decent people find abhorrent.  Find me a decent alternative to lead that is the same price and usable with genuinely bio degradable wads and i'll switch tomorrow, the choice against plastic already exists.

Unless we make sensible choices ourselves then  our illustrious leaders who don't understanding will force change upon us, and who knows what other bans will be stapled to the back, it really is that simple.

[Bluebarrels]

42 minutes ago, PPP said:

 The point that you love overlooking is that there is an effective alternative to plastic litter but you enjoy winding people up bragging how you love to sling plastic into the environment which most decent people find abhorrent.  

This.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bluebarrels

[Guest cookoff013]

shells are fire and forget. i doubt no-one can fire off 100 shells and collect all the wads. even throwing the shells in the bin / recycling is probably a worst case scenario.

now that plastic is immoral and we should all think of different alternatives. the way some plastics waste are dealt with are questionable. in the past it is acceptable to basically send it to china for them to deal with it. now not so clear cut.

so plastic is being used, where will it ultimately end up? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-plastic-pollution-oceans-recycling-export-waste-malaysia-vietnam-thailand-a8400761.html

i`m all for continued use of plastic. but we need a better solution that sending it abroad with a big pile of cash, for it to be dumped into the ocean, and end up back here in the uk stuck in my cod n chips, costing me more and more.
i`m still pro plastic. thats why its so successful its a wonder material. i`m not going to go "vegan", or "pocket mulch" to reduce my carbon footprint. 
my only option would be to support fibre wads an alternative and support the "proper recycling / processing of plastic waste"

nb, i work in a lab. i live in plastic and throw away alot.

[motty]

I

52 minutes ago, PPP said:

Lead is a given because of the lack of credible affordable alternative in the clay and game/vermin volumes i shoot.  Fortunately i don't need not too often but when i do i use fibre bismuth.  The point that you love overlooking is that there is an effective alternative to plastic litter but you enjoy winding people up bragging how you love to sling plastic into the environment which most decent people find abhorrent.  Find me a decent alternative to lead that is the same price and usable with genuinely bio degradable wads and i'll switch tomorrow, the choice against plastic already exists.

Unless we make sensible choices ourselves then  our illustrious leaders who don't understanding will force change upon us, and who knows what other bans will be stapled to the back, it really is that simple.

If you are that bothered, stop wasting your energy on me, and start emailing all the cartridges companies to stop production of plastic wad shells. I mean, it's such an issue, they're bound to stop. Right?

44 minutes ago, Bluebarrels said:

This.

Don't be such a hypocrite!

[muncher]

There's an alternative to plastic cases! No one is advocating we go back to paper cases, why not ? At least they are biodegradable as I'm sure they can't recyle plastic cartridges because they are they are joined with metal, I hope to be corrected.

[Bluebarrels]

22 minutes ago, motty said:

 

Don't be such a hypocrite!

??opinions,discussion,debate,experiences make a forum! It's not just about your opinion !

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bluebarrels

[motty]

31 minutes ago, Bluebarrels said:

??opinions,discussion,debate,experiences make a forum! It's not just about your opinion !

Absolutely.

[Guest stevo]

1 hour ago, muncher said:

There's an alternative to plastic cases! No one is advocating we go back to paper cases, why not ? At least they are biodegradable as I'm sure they can't recyle plastic cartridges because they are they are joined with metal, I hope to be corrected.

Plastic cases are recycled. We have a place in Lincolnshire that’s collects them from all over the place 

this is our county centre http://www.agri-cycle.uk.com/what-we-recycle/spent-shotgun-cartridge-recycling/

there are quite a few all over the country, and for a number of years too 

[Esca]

1 hour ago, muncher said:

There's an alternative to plastic cases! No one is advocating we go back to paper cases, why not ? At least they are biodegradable as I'm sure they can't recyle plastic cartridges because they are they are joined with metal, I hope to be corrected.

I have actually been looking at going back to paper. Not a lot of choice, but surprisingly not a prohibited price. 

On aside note I work in a industry that uses plastic, and it is a serious pain in the **** finding a way to get it recycled. 

8 minutes ago, stevo said:

Plastic cases are recycled. We have a place in Lincolnshire that’s collects them from all over the place 

this is our county centre http://www.agri-cycle.uk.com/what-we-recycle/spent-shotgun-cartridge-recycling/

there are quite a few all over the country, and for a number of years too 

Cool?

[Guest stevo]

I use them loads for all my empty’s , once a year I would drop a ton bag nearly full , from my pigeon and crow shooting , and when shooting over drilling’s we would  throw all the plaswads in too , never a problem and dead easy as it was on the way too a clay shoot  .?

[muncher]

4 minutes ago, stevo said:

I use them loads for all my empty’s , once a year I would drop a ton bag nearly full , from my pigeon and crow shooting , and when shooting over drilling’s we would  throw all the plaswads in too , never a problem and dead easy as it was on the way too a clay shoot  .?

Think I will be collecting all mine from now on, instead of throwing them in the wheelie bin.

[wymberley]

4 hours ago, JDog said:

I'll get back to the discussion rather than the argument.

I have always used plastic wads. Last year a grateful farmer gave me a slab of Gamebore 30 grams in fibre wad. Never have I had so many wounded birds as I had with the first 50 shots. I tried them again with the same result and I gave the unused ones away. It must be said that I was shooting at pretty long birds.

It could have been my poor shooting of course but the difference between my normal cartridges with plastic wad and the Gamebore with fibre was dramatic.

I draw my own conclusions from this.

I am obliged to use fibre. In my new gun I got nowhere near what I wanted patternwise even though the choke was 1/4 by 3/4. So, Teague 3/8 by 7/8. Limited field use reflects that all may well be good now. I have been waiting delivery of another gun so that I could do some proper pattern tests with both guns at once. This second gun arrived today so can now get on with it. Because of the severely reduced availability of No 7s in game loads, I've also had a look at clay loads. Using 20 yards and simply measuring the spread as an indicator of what may happen at 40 yards in order to cut down on the volume of testing I have found in the one gun that I already have using Gamebore the 20 yard spread in inches is:

Black Gold......................19.2

White Gold......................20.5

Blue Diamond.................17.6 This being the slowest of the clay loads tried

Super Game High Bird....17 These are positively pedestrian by comparison.

The difference in energy/velocity between then all at 40 yards - not a lot. The pattern potential is something else. 

[Smokersmith]

You recommend the Super Game then?