Army short of soldiers

[Scully]

56 minutes ago, AdamSouthEast said:

I imagine the prospect of dying in pointless conflicts and oil wars has put a dampener on the recruitment drive.

It's certainly a possibility. 

[Dave-G]

Times have changed so much. The army nor its recruitment people aren't allowed to say why they can't get enough recruits in my opinion.

If the general population and Winston Churchill knew that later British Governments would allow Brussels to reign roughshod over us and our courts rather than simply join mutally beneficial defensive and market alliances he might have had a problen finding volunteers then too. Of course that's nothing to do with national service conscription so its not as simple as that derail sounds, but it leads to the next bit.

I just can't see the small amount of patriotic resolute young recruits we could muster these days being gullible enough to fight for our country with one arm behind their back while they know our disloyal politicians are trying their very hardest to give it away anyway. Thats before we take account of how our nation has been strongly diluted with people who have no patriotism towards this country and students who massively resent our past defensive history. To my mind that leaves a much smaller pot of potentially suitable prime of life recruits to draw from and theyre already so desperate they are now letting women enrol into our fighting. The government have brought this on itself.

I'd best shut up before I get in trouble because I can't do subtle very well. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Dave-G

[yod dropper]

3 hours ago, AdamSouthEast said:

I imagine the prospect of dying in pointless conflicts and oil wars has put a dampener on the recruitment drive.

The opposite. Recruitment levels were high because of the conflicts.

[Retsdon]

It's a hard one to fathom. I just looked at the pay scales and to be honest, they're not bad at all. The British 'other ranks'  soldier is considerably better paid than his US Army or Marine counterpart. The service benefits aren't probably as good, but how many young men of 18 join up for a pension at 40+? Fear of danger? I find that hard to believe either. Young men have always been up for excitement  and adventure. Look at the Foreign Legion. Admittedly its net is cast wider, but the FFR can afford to be extremely choosy about who it accepts, https://www.stripes.com/news/europe/americans-struggle-to-meet-the-french-foreign-legion-s-high-bar-1.497591 , and the Legion is famously profligate with the lives of its soldiery and its discipline is notorious.

Rather, I think the British Army's recruitment problems stem from its hidebound image. I don't know how true it might still be today, but the image most people have of the British Army is one of a very class based hierarchical organization in which young men with a private education who speak with plums in their mouths get to be in charge of, and order about, other young men with regional accents and local schooling. As I say, that may no longer be the case, and if it's not, then the Army should shout it from the rooftops because, true or not, it's what most people believe to be true. And if it is still true, then the Army needs to change the way it does things because the days when the hoi polloi touched their caps are past and gone, and they're not coming back. Consequently young men nowadays will forgo the opportunity of good pay and adventure rather than jump to attention for a wet-behind-the-ears rupert whose daddy is so rich that he doesn't bother to draw his pay and who is in charge almost solely because of his privileged upbringing. Of course, you're still going to have officers, but perhaps the Army might want to look at where it recruits its officer corps from and widen that net. Then perhaps it might get more ordinary lads  to join up. Tradition is all very well, but at some point for everything in existence it becomes a case of adapt or die.  

[Hamster]

6 hours ago, AdamSouthEast said:

I imagine the prospect of dying in pointless conflicts and oil wars has put a dampener on the recruitment drive.

Not just dying but coming back injured or mentally scarred so badly that your life may as well be over, then there's the distinct possibility of having no help available either and the stories of homeless veterans are sadly not uncommon.

The trouble is Britain essentially fights America's wars and even casual observers will have noticed they've pretty much done the easy fights, China and Russia are right at the forefront of US demonisation programme and I doubt any sane person seriously considers even low key conventional scraps with them to be anything like the recent jaunts. 

[welsh1]

When i joined the recruitment process was very short, a couple of months at the most, when in i had money taken from me for food and accommodation, the accommodation was poor to say the least, but the food was good, three good meals a day, if you managed 22 years you got part of your pension paid out to you every month so you only had to find a filler job to live ok.
The food was prepared by Military chefs, the recruiting done by the military.

When my Son joined 4 years ago , the recruitment took over a year, it was so long that he had to take a second medical because the first was out of date, the civilian who he spoke to told him he would go to Edinburgh for his medical, he pointed out he was in pembrokeshire in Wales, the answer, oh don't worry you can go by train, it took him 19 hours there and back, the doctor listened to his chest and said that's fine.
My Son after being in a year was told the pay scale he was on where he had a fair increase with each rank was being frozen and effectively he would earn very little difference from L/Cpl to Sgt, he now has to 26 years if he is to get that pension, and it's less than the old one.
If you need repairs doing to your quarters carrilion will drag their heels and when they do work it is substandard, they are a civilian company

The food he tells me is dire, and everyone complains, but no one listens,he recently was on exercise in Holland,  when i spoke to him and asked how things were going, he was raving about how fantastic the Dutch cook houses were.

There are no incentives anymore, lots of his unit have signed off,he tells me the Army is very very PC.

The food is now prepared by Sodexo, a civilian company.
Recruiting is now done by a civilian company who are following the PC ethos.

My Son doesn't think he will do full service,and thinks it will be better to get out in a few years.

I have a Nephew who has been in 10 years, is very specialized, he thinks the Army has gone to "rat ****" and has been thinking of getting out.

Let the military do their own recruiting, their own catering, their own maintenance , they were good at it.


 

[timmytree]

So Capita handle recruitment. What do they know about what the forces need?

Sodexo doing the catering. What happens when we go to war? Do the civvy cooks go as well?

As for looking after living quarters, Carillion went bust so who has taken on that role now?

I'm always proud to see our servicemen and women, if it hadn't been for having asthma as a kid I would have joined up as did my grandad, dad and sister. Certainly growing up as an RAF kid in the 60s and 70s you felt pride, you belonged to a special group of people. I think that feeling has gone now, the penny pinchers and do gooders have taken control.

[countryman]

On 5 November 2018 at 18:39, treetree said:

So the recent advertising campaign showing showing operations in the field coming to a halt so a young Muslim chap could carry out his morning prayers wasn't a big success then? 

My thoughts exactly .

[Paul1440]

Maybe some of it is due to all the attention on the WW1. There's another thread titled "They will not be forgotten" and the phrase Lions lead by Donkeys is used plus it is  said how it was ordinary people that fought the battles.

I'm not sure if the perception has moved on too much.(Not saying all officers are Donkeys, They obviously are not) 

My cousin left after 10 years when it started to grate on him that he had to answer  (say sir)  to new recruits that came in as officers. Generally the type from public school/ Oxbridge. 

This completely  put me off having any interest in Army life unless joining as an officer.  I therefore concluded that Army life just wouldn't suit me.

Things may have moved on in some ways but It would make anyone think twice before joining. 

 

 

[yod dropper]

22 hours ago, Hamster said:

China and Russia are right at the forefront of US demonisation programme 

Good reason for taking on China. In case PW don't know. amongst other things such as continued theft of intellectual property they're claiming disputed territory and militarising it causing significant geo-political tensions. In the fantastical world of conspiracy theorists and the anti-establishment I guess it could be called demonisation.

[Hamster]

1 minute ago, yod dropper said:

Good reason for taking on China. In case PW don't know. amongst other things such as continued theft of intellectual property they're claiming disputed territory and militarising it causing significant geo-political tensions. In the fantastical world of conspiracy theorists and the anti-establishment I guess it could be called demonisation.

Explain to us where these "disputed" waters are, no doubt much closer to the Chinese borders and on a different continent to where the US is situated, any dispute would therefore be with other nations in close vicinity so non of America's business. 

In any case good luck taking them on. 

[Guest]

Bring back national service .

[yod dropper]

35 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Explain to us where these "disputed" waters are, no doubt much closer to the Chinese borders and on a different continent to where the US is situated, any dispute would therefore be with other nations in close vicinity so non of America's business. 

In any case good luck taking them on. 

Latest I heard of were the Spratly Islands just off  the coast of the Phillipines and Indonesia and a long, long way from the coast of China. Facts are available from reputable MSM rather than conspiracy-theory websites and newsfeeds. 

[Hamster]

3 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

Latest I heard of were the Spratly Islands just off  the coast of the Phillipines and Indonesia and a long, long way from the coast of China. Facts are available from reputable MSM rather than conspiracy-theory websites and newsfeeds. 

Are Indonesia and Philippines American states ? 

[yod dropper]

18 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Are Indonesia and Philippines American states ? 

zzzzzz

[Retsdon]

@Welsh1 : A very good and informative post....

[Hamster]

6 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

zzzzzz

?????????

Europeans helped themselves to half a continent which wasn't quite enough so they took Texas off the Mexicans to make it a bit bigger, Hawaii is a fair old few miles from them too which doesn't seem to have bothered them much. 

Let he who hasn't sinned cast the first st.................and all that. In other words for the US to cry foul over the Chinese antics is laughable. 

[Vince Green]

There was a man on the radio saying, In the 80s he was an ordinary squaddie earning £11K but he got a free house for his family. For him the house was a clincher, married quarters was a massive plus and it locked him in to his service career for many years.

Today he would get £14K but NO HOUSE and he wouldn't be able to rent a house on that pay so game over. Unless he was stationed somewhere remote and carp for his kids to grow up.

[MartynGT4]

12 hours ago, Vince Green said:

There was a man on the radio saying, In the 80s he was an ordinary squaddie earning £11K but he got a free house for his family. For him the house was a clincher, married quarters was a massive plus and it locked him in to his service career for many years.

Today he would get £14K but NO HOUSE and he wouldn't be able to rent a house on that pay so game over. Unless he was stationed somewhere remote and carp for his kids to grow up.

That's not entirely accurate, even as a trained private he'd be on just shy of £19k and if married he'd be able to claim for married quarters and the rent for that would be a LOT less than he'd pay for a private rent.

[Scully]

23 hours ago, Swinton said:

Bring back national service .

I think conscription may be the only answer in this day and age, but I'd mightily resent my son being put at risk for the sake of todays politicians. 

[Dave-G]

16 minutes ago, Scully said:

I think conscription may be the only answer in this day and age, but I'd mightily resent my son being put at risk for the sake of todays politicians. 

And prisons would overflow within days as all the foreign yoof and benefit scroungers would know their yuman rights.

[welsh1]

21 hours ago, Vince Green said:

There was a man on the radio saying, In the 80s he was an ordinary squaddie earning £11K but he got a free house for his family. For him the house was a clincher, married quarters was a massive plus and it locked him in to his service career for many years.

Today he would get £14K but NO HOUSE and he wouldn't be able to rent a house on that pay so game over. Unless he was stationed somewhere remote and carp for his kids to grow up.

I started on 16k in 1983.
As for free house, i don't remember that , i had my rent deducted from my wages before i even saw them.

My Son started on 16k for basic training, then 18k after phase 2  and about 24 k when all his training was finished.
He has an Army Quarter, and he also has the rent deducted from his pay,as for remote and ****, well it is Tidworth ,so you may have something there 😂