Shotgun Tightening?

[4535jacks]

A side by side i recently bought had some lateral play in the action and you could see the barrels moving away from the face of the action.  I took it to two reputable gunsmiths and both said it needed rejointing with a a weld or spray-weld on the hook.  

 

So I returned it to dealer I bought from who said they would send it to their gunsmith for repair.  I picked it up and they said it just needed a tightening and that nothing was wrong with it.  Since they tightened it, it is very stiff to open, the open lever is well off centre to the right it is difficult to reattach the forend.  However the play in the action has gone.  

 

Is this the usual way to repair play in an action or just cheaper temporary fix that ultimately has not rectified the underlying problem?

Edited November 24, 2018 by 4535jacks

[old'un]

Try taking the forend off and see if you still have the problem, can you see a small amount of daylight between the action and barrel flats?

Its possible they have just tightened the forend up which is making the gun stiff to open, not the best long term solution.

until it beds in the top lever will be slightly to the right, nothing to worry about.

[4535jacks]

5 minutes ago, old'un said:

Try taking the forend off and see if you still have the problem, can you see a small amount of daylight between the action and barrel flats?

Its possible they have just tightened the forend up which is making the gun stiff to open, not the best long term solution.

until it beds in the top lever will be slightly to the right, nothing to worry about.

The gun is 30 years old and was full bedded in before it went in for repair

 

[old'un]

Without seeing the gun its difficult to say what they have done but tightening the bite will not bring the gun back on face.

If the gun is on face and there is a small gap between the action and barrel flats (0.005”) then they may have tightened the bites by raising metal with an hammer, if that is the case then the top lever will be slightly to the right but usually it can be moved central with a little bit of pressure on the top lever.

[bruno22rf]

Sounds like the Hook may have met with a Copper Hammer - old trick used to tart up loose guns for sale - might last a season but that's about it.

[JJsDad]

43 minutes ago, 4535jacks said:

 I picked it up and they said it just needed a tightening and that nothing was wrong with it.

This is a double dutch remark by the dealer. If it needed tightening, then there is (or was) something wrong with it. The term tightening is a bit to vague to be able to tell exactly what their gunsmith did to it in order to cure the looseness. Depending on whether the gun has a replaceable hinge pin, the normal repair would be to fit an oversize hinge pin or as you were advised by the two other gunsmiths, by welding up the hook on the front lump and then dressing up the lump, barrels and bites in the lumps to bring the barrels back against the standing breech.

It could have been subject to a bodge job which will just be a temporary fix; however without knowing what has been carried out under the term `tightening` it is difficult to tell if the fix is a proper job or a quick fix that will allow the gun to become loose again after a couple of hundred shots. I personally would not be impressed by a dealer who described the fault you describe as: `nothing wrong, just needs a quick tighten` !

[The Heron]

Quick tighten? what size hammer sounds like a bodge job.

[4535jacks]

I will take it to a barrel maker near work and get his opinion.  If he says it is a botch job then I will take it back and ask for my money back. Not the first time I have had to return a firearm to this particular dealer. In fact it will be the third! Hopefully the barrel expert will give it the thumbs up.

Edited November 24, 2018 by 4535jacks

[Gunman]

OK , there is "re-jointing" which can involve either building up the hook or fitting a new joint pin if possible .This also involves pulling in the body to be firm on the lumps and attention to the bites when the barrels have been blacked on the face .  . This is a time consuming job if done correctly and requires a certain level of skill and experience.

Alternately if the gun is basically OK but a bit loose in the bites and forend , a gun can be successfully "tightened " by pulling in the body , tightening the forend iron and building up the bites .

I have done both of these many hundreds of times with out problem , once it has been decided which is the best course of action in a particular case .

Problems arise when a quick fix is made by a person with little skill or ability . There are far too many of these people calling them self's gunsmiths around for my liking and my first impression is that your gun has been to one of these . 

Any gun either re-jointed or tightened will be stiff at first as well it should be , this will ease of with a little use but it should not be excessive or any more than any new gun.

 

[figgy]

Knocking up the bite. There is a video of a old gunsmith with Larry potterfield tightening up a sxs. Good watching how it's done.

[4535jacks]

I have had a good look at it and there is no evidence of the bites having peened or material worked forward with a punch.  Taking the forend off and reattaching the barrels with no forend and the gun is just as tight and the lever over to same new right of centre position.  With no obvious evidence of material being mechanically forced forward or back (I remember watching a video of Jack Rose towing how to do it and was obvious where he had been hammering) I don't know how they got it this tight and why it is making the forend difficult to put on and take off.........

I have also seen a midway video where he tightens a gun up be expoxying a thin piece of sheet shell (0.003" thin) into the hook  it I can't see want evidence if this.

Edited November 24, 2018 by 4535jacks

[Gunman]

PLEASE IGNORE the videos of Jack Rowe .  He was man of his time and that time is past as are the methods he used  . The Midway videos are a joke . OK for a few minutes comedy entertainment but thats all.   

I have never managed to watch one all the way through with out yelling at the screen . NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! or AHHHHHHHHHHH! 

As it is impossible to do more than guess as to what and how  has been done I suggest an Independent appraisal is the best .

Edited November 24, 2018 by Gunman

[figgy]

May well have welded some metal into the hook and filed it to fit.

[4535jacks]

49 minutes ago, figgy said:

May well have welded some metal into the hook and filed it to fit.

They implied he had to do very little and since any work would reduce their profit margins I believe them! There is no evidence of welding either.  I hope the guy I visiting can shed some light on it.

Edited November 24, 2018 by 4535jacks

[figgy]

So long as it's working ok. Enjoy using it.

[wymberley]

4 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

Sounds like the Hook may have met with a Copper Hammer - old trick used to tart up loose guns for sale - might last a season but that's about it.

Known in the trade I believe as, "pumped up".

[4535jacks]

Took the gun to see a barrel maker with a view to getting the bores polished to remove some light pitting.  He had a look at the action and cofirm it has had a quick repair with a file.  He also pointed out that the barrels are no longer sitting square on the face of the action and there is a gap at thr bottom.  He has said it needs a rejointing to fix the problem and get the barrels to seat correctly against the action. 

[figgy]

Take it back to the shop.

[4535jacks]

Yep, i will.  As much as i dont want to be the over conplaining customer, this gunshop has lost my business. I should have learnt my lesson when i bought a rifle with a faulty safety catch from them and another rifle that was supposedly brand new but according to a gunsmith had a number of rounds through it.  

I dont want them to fix it now, i just want my money back so i can buy a reliable gun from some i trust.

 

[Fil]

On 24/11/2018 at 20:42, Gunman said:

PLEASE IGNORE the videos of Jack Rowe .  He was man of his time and that time is past as are the methods he used  . The Midway videos are a joke . OK for a few minutes comedy entertainment but thats all.   

I have never managed to watch one all the way through with out yelling at the screen . NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! or AHHHHHHHHHHH! 

.

LMAO.... It's not just me then!!

[fallowbuck]

On 24/11/2018 at 19:18, 4535jacks said:

I will take it to a barrel maker near work and get his opinion.  If he says it is a botch job then I will take it back and ask for my money back. Not the first time I have had to return a firearm to this particular dealer. In fact it will be the third! Hopefully the barrel expert will give it the thumbs up.

Old saying “Once Bitten Twice Shy!” 😉

[TIGHTCHOKE]

13 minutes ago, fallowbuck said:

Old saying “Once Bitten Twice Shy!” 😉

I hope he has resolved the problem by now!

[fallowbuck]

Yes Old post!🙄🙂