Master Eye issues and remedies - both eyes open

[Hamster]

This is a very long read but I feel may be of interest to those who are cross dominant : 

 

There's been a few posts regarding Master Eye issues and products meant for helping those

affected so I thought it might be helpful for some to hear of my experiences and the path I

chose to combat it. Firstly let me categorically state that I am not against or averse to anyone

using any number of gadgets or techniques to correct this, there are a number of perfectly

sensible tools and methods that can be employed and it appears we're shortly to witness the

launch of a new system developed by Ben Husthwaite.

 

No one cure suits all but what I am prepared to say is that contrary to conventional advice

from writers on the subject there are potentially more "organic" ways around this issue than

the 3 most commonly suggested. It's important that we cover these and in no particular order

they are :

 

1) Learning to shoot from your master eye shoulder - possibly the most sensible route

particularly if you're new to guns and have yet to develop much if any real muscle memory.

Having used air guns from a very young age I didn't want to shoot from my left shoulder.

 

2) Learning to shoot from your favoured shoulder (opposite to your master eye) but perfecting

the habit of closing the master eye just before firing - perfectly doable if somewhat flawed.

 

3) Learning to use a cross-over stock - absolute non starter in any meaningful sense.

 

Then we have several physical objects which can be utilised such as beads which glow and

are highly visible to the aiming eye (i.e, non master eye) but which can't be seen with the

non aiming (i.e, master eye) once the gun is shouldered, these can have their uses and

devotees but again probably not the best way forward particularly if you have fairly high

ambitions. The bigger/longer highglow beads can be rather distracting in themselves and

they can bend out of shape in hot weather, they can even affect POI (up and down) if

they're too big of a blob !

 

More subtle versions of this approach have been tried by partially sinking the bead within

the rib, this can be an excellent thing if used in conjunction with other practices.

 

Opaque stick-on pads for glasses are another excellent way of creating a blind spot for

your master eye so that it is less likely to take over during the final stages of the firing

cycle, a dab of vaseline on the right part of your glasses can achieve much the same

thing albeit temporarily - my only real objection to these is that they are clearly no good

when you're shooting minus your glasses such as may be the case out in the field. The

plus with this method is that your overall awareness and vision of the target remains

largely uninterupted (not the case with closing ones master eye).

 

I'm also aware of a system which creates a visible tiny marker on the "true barrel" (but

not visible to the offending master eye barrel) and is meant to assist you in learning to

address the target with the correct barrel, again why not, sounds perfectly plausible and I

know of rather excellent shooters who use the system and truth be told my own method is

rather similar in that it simply (does away with even that tiny marker).

 

Whether I've missed any potential cures on the market is irrelevant because the main

purpose of this admittedly long essay is to expand and explain why and how I managed

to ignore all (and only) suggested routes of eradicating this issue and came up with a more

than adequate answer which relies on nothing materially being attached to ones barrels

but instead simply training to keep both eyes open from my favoured shoulder opposite

my master eye. Hopefully the next time this subject comes up and someone asks me to

explain what I mean they can quickly be directed to the long, decipherable version of me

just saying "I use my right eye" to do the shooting.

 

To grasp the reasons why master eye issues are so important we first need to understand

why it can and will cause misses. First things first, before saying pull and when you address

the path of the clay with the gun just out of your shoulder and with your eyes resting at the

target area........................................you will be aware of two sets of barrels beneath

your eye line, this is perfectly normal, the straight barrel immediately beneath your non

master eye (right eye in my case) is the "correct" barrel, it is the one that actually spits

out the pellets, the one slightly to the right (or left) and with a very slight (curve) towards

the correct barrel is the non shooting barrel which you must train to ignore. In many ways

this is fairly easy to do with a bit of practice because all shooting is learned behaviour,

you learn to stand a certain way, you learn to lean into the shot, you learn sight pictures,

you learn tempo, learn controlled movement, learn to finish the shot (not stopping the gun)

why on earth shouldn't you be able to learn using the "correct" barrel as the reference point?

 

 

When tracking a target with both your eyes the brain,

hands and body co-ordinate with one another to calculate the speed, angle and distance

of the object and relay that information back to allow you to place the shot at the appropriate

distance (usually in front but often below too) ahead of the target, we know that TWO eyes

open at all times is the most ideal state of affairs, remember you may well be asked to

shoot at two different targets very quickly with little transition time to open and close your

master eye in between, keeping it closed is doable but then you're not maximising your

potential physical armaments. It's also the case that most master eyes are the stronger

(not always) of the two, why would you want to use the less able/focused eye to act all

alone !? By keeping both eyes open at all times you avail yourself of your best possible vision

clarity, not to mention maximising the brains ability to make tiny, more accurate calculations

of angles and speeds etc,.

 

Misses occur when the master eye "pulls" your aim from the "correct" (meaning the

barrel that is directly under your aiming, non master eye) and involuntarily forces you to

use the "untrue" barrel as the reference point towards the target. This can cause misses

ranging from a foot or two to one side or the other of simple close incomers to several feet

in cases of more distant, angled presentations.

 

Yes I accept that many superb shots close one eye just before firing but my question is this,

when do you close one eye ? How about a long Teal having to be shot on the way down, you

know the ones we all can't help but shoot at several different descent points, do you close

your eye when the target has leveled out, mid way or just before firing regardless ? If the

answer is just before firing then I'm afraid you're more than half way (probably 95%) through

shooting my method anyway, all I've done is dial out that final nano second ! Put it this way

by the time you're ready to pull the trigger the barrels are as good as done and in the right

place anyway, there is no way that you'd have time to react and correct the path of the barrel

if you were to find the master eye had taken over, the only way you could react is if you

close the master eye fairly early in the acquisiton/tracking process in which case as mentioned

you're denying yourself the fruits of two eyed vision/clarity.

Part 2 :

 

Ahh but what if in the heat of the moment
___________________________________

Yes that's a perfectly legitimate question, what if in the heat of the moment you suddenly fail
to correctly carry out the process and allow the dominant eye to take over ? Well then a miss
will probably (though by no means always as I'll explain later) be your reward.
You see ALL MECHANICAL ACTIONS THAT TAKE PLACE TO EXECUTE A SHOT ARE IN
TOTALITY A "PROCESS" -  if you fail to correctly execute imparting lead to a moving target 
then a miss will be the result, you may well have pulverised your first 3 targets in a sequence
but then suddenly simply fail to adhere to the "process" and under or over lead a given target,
the learned behaviour of using the non dominant eye to do the shooting is a PROCESS and 
no different to any one of two dozen different learned processes we have to go through every 
time we shoot or do anything for that matter that requires the collaboration of the body's 
various nervous systems. 
When you first start shooting you're told you have to learn to give forward allowance to most 
moving targets and that you need to do so with a moving gun i.e, learn to fire without 
stopping or checking lead. You do this without questioning it because it has proved that over
time it will bring results, in simple terms you persevere and you perfect (loose term) the art.
When you come up against the quandry of Master Eye, assuming it even affects you, authors
with moustaches and double barrel names as well as no end of other perfectly knowledgable
and well informed people will tell you your choices are limited to those already discussed
above. You don't try or persevere because you have been conditioned to believe it's not
possible. It IS possible because I have done it since at least 1987 and I have met people 
who appeared to do likewise, in fact I can prove that many of the people who close their 
master eye (just before) actually firing must in effect be shooting this way ! You simply need
to practice the process to its logical conclusion. 

Ahh but if it works how come we hadn't heard of it before
_______________________________________________

Again perfectly plausible question but the answer is we simply don't know how many people 
deliberately or inadvertently have either taught themselves to shoot successfully this way or
simply imprinted the process into their routine without conscious thought. 
Nobody has ever carried out a world wide poll to ask master eye affectees how or why they 
shoot the way they do, who knows how Dave in Canada or Vladimir in Russia EXACTLY
executes his moving target routine, we've never asked a large enough sample the right 
questions, we've simply blindly accepted conventional advice and assumed there are no other
available "cures".

OK I'm bored, so how do you actually do this, what is the "process"
________________________________________________________

You need the following in no particular order of importance :

1) You must understand the problems that cross shoulder, master eye issues cause,
(hence why I have made this so detailed) without that you won't fully be able to learn the 
skill/routine of combatting it. Just like politics if you don't understand or acknowledge the 
problem you won't solve it.

2) You need to look at the target and not the bead or rib - logical and undeniable advice
in all cases anyway, if you divert your eyes towards the bead/rib all sorts of wrongs occur
which are outside the scope of this subject but you need to develop the skill to look at 
the target or its general area (whilst being aware of the existence and placement) of the 
barrel(s) only one of which is real.

3) You need a slightly raised rib sight picture - this is an interesting subject all onto itself
and many high profile people subscribe to the view that it helps period, i.e, it's helpful even
to non master eye affectees. If you accept that in order to hit a moving object effectively and 
consistently you must have muzzle to target "awareness", you need to know where your 
correct barrel is throughout the process of executing the shot, with a lo rib set up too often
the master eye is drawn to the (curved) blur of the barrel not doing the actual firing. Don't
go mental with the rib height because too much is as bad as too little as it can
cause difficulties in finding the line of the bird which is in my view at least as if not more 
important than the lead. 

4) Start off on a very simple going away clay, by all means throw it somewhat angled 
upwards if doing so means less distractions from shrubs or trees. As I have already 
mentioned when adressing the clay (with the gun in or out of your shoulder) you will be aware 
of two barrels, the one immediately under your shooting (non dominant) eye is the "correct" 
one, call for the clay and try your best to use that eye to line up the shot and fire. If it helps 
break the clay once or twice with a closed eye but eventually break it without closing your 
master eye. Unless your innate neurological skills are at rock bottom you will break the clay 
no problem. Belief is the key to doing anything well, I can't even recall going through much 
if any actual hardship to learn the process but assuming you find it a little harder to do in 
practice than what it sounds like on paper then simply remember what I said about the power 
of practice and perseverance. The first time you hold a snooker cue feels strange as does
trying to change gear in a left hand drive car. 

5) Believe, persevere and practice - don't be put off by misses because they happen
for tons of reasons, not just cross eye dominance, after a while you will find keeping
the eye open becomes more and more natural to the point of the process getting imprinted 
and memorised by your subconscious. I don't hear the tinitus noise in my left ear unless
I think about it, you will reach the stage when you won't think about your master eye from 
month to month if not longer, I almost never do. All mechanical actions are a learned
"process". As your confidence grows you will start to use the same process on more 
technical and challenging stuff. 

I believe that if we were to collate accurate detailed answers from people who successfully 
shut their dominant eye just before shooting we would come to the conclusion that unless
they shut that eye rather early in the mounting/tracking process (which is bad news) then
they have all but adopted the both eyes open process without consciously acknowledging
it. Think about it, if I (as a right shouldered left master eye) shooter track a 30 yard L to R 
crossing bird with the master eye and then in the final nano second shut my dominant eye 
my muzzle would be pointing several feet above and behind the target, I'd have no chance 
of correcting or avoinding the inevitable miss, that's why I believe many are already using this
"process" without allowing themselves the liberty of the final phase. 

Is the process failsafe and impossible to trick, of course not, any process is only as good 
as the practitioners imput and "application". People who shoot well can almost invariably
be termed somewhat robotic, they collect track and break the clay in almost exactly the 
same square foot in the sky, they do this because repetition of the previous shots process 
is aided by the successful mental image brought about by the smashed clay. If you hang on 
to a target too long and commit the cardinal sin of diverting your gaze from the target (or at 
the very least target V barrel sight picture out beyond) it is possible that your master eye gets 
drawn to the wrong eye resulting in a miss IF you stop the gun. As promised under the 
"Ahh but" segment now is the time to mention that often, even in such cases where the 
process appearsto have failed, if you keep faith and FINISH the shot, the clay will more often 
than not break because as I have already alluded, your correct barrel would already be all but 
done and in the right place. 

Hamid Hajilou

All intellectual rights to the above essay/article are reserved, please do not alter, re-word
or re-present without credit either partially or as a whole, do not quote partially or as a whole 
on non UK based forums without asking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[matone]

Still say the greatest issue is lack of cast for most people . O/u `s are too straight for many people but difficult to get any real amount of alteration done to with stock bolts etc.

[Westward]

Very good essay Hamid. Thanks for taking the trouble to produce it.

p.s. If you fancy creating a firestorm why not post it on Shotgunworld.👿

[Hamster]

2 minutes ago, Westward said:

Very good essay Hamid. Thanks for taking the trouble to produce it.

p.s. If you fancy creating a firestorm why not post it on Shotgunworld.👿

😂 

I owe plenty to US gun forums if I'm honest, I don't think many if any would object to it there. 

[Westward]

I enjoy an occasional lurk on SGW and I remember a thread about 3 or 4 years ago where a poster (who I think posts on ShootClay) described how he'd switched his master eye through training. IIRC no one much accepted the possibility even though he linked to scientific research into neural pathways which pretty well proved it.

 

[Scully]

Interesting post Hamster. I think I do a similar thing if I've read your post correctly, but rather than practise in the field I do it at home. I am right handed with a left master eye, and despite suspecting it for some years had deigned to ignore it lest it prey on my mind and adversely affect my shooting, but my optician eventually confirmed it . It puzzled me to be honest as I actually hit much more than I miss, but then around six months ago I started shooting very inconsistently with my favoured gun. I at first put this down exclusively to lack of practise outside the season as I had moved house and didn't get out with a gun as much as I used to. Anyhow, renewing my interest in shooting clays I discovered I shot better with a trap gun than my sporter, and so raised the comb slightly on the latter so I was seeing more of a 'ramp' ( or a figure eight if two beads are present ) than my previously preferred view of an almost entirely flat plain and just the bead. 

Another thing I did, having realised I didn't do it as often ( again, down to not going out as often ) was practise my mount in the mirror. Since taking up clays again I am not only getting out much more with a gun ( several in fact! ) but practising my mount much much more, which brings me round to the entire purpose of this post, which is MY method of dealing with an opposite master eye. 

When in a trap stand I work out my killing point for each clay, and as most are on report this as we all know, can become a compromise between the two birds, offering us the best chance to break the first without screwing ourselves into the ground to kill the second, and so in front of the mirror my killing zone becomes that mirror, and I adjust my stance accordingly. With the gun down I close my eyes and mount the gun, taking care not to see-saw the gun and ensuring it hits my cheek and shoulder at the same time. I then open my right eye ( as I'm right handed ) and through the mirror see where my eye is in relation to that rib or bead. If I've got it right, all I should see is my right eye looking back at me. After checking I open both eyes and relax for a second or two. If I've got it wrong, rather than adjusting my mount, I dismount and close my eyes again, and repeat, and repeat, making slight adjustments with each mount with my eyes shut, until I've got it right. Once it's correct, I repeat and repeat ad infinitum until muscle memory takes over and that gun comes up to the right position each and every time. Then I practise some more. Take that gun out of your cabinet and practise even just for five minutes each day...believe me, five minutes is a long time when you're doing this! Practise this is your summer shooting clothes and your winter shooting clothes. 

I shoot both eyes open and always have; to me there is no alternative. My scores are again consistently rising ( or at least consistently at the higher end of the card ) and I (eventually ) had a fabulous game season, and although I'll never be world class I have the knowledge that MOST days I can hold my own and again hit much much more than I miss.

Because of my practise routine I now know that whenever and wherever I shoot, I have done all that is possible to minimise the effects of an opposite master eye, and any misses are often down to something else in the vast array of possible causes of missing. 

 

[Hamster]

14 minutes ago, Westward said:

I enjoy an occasional lurk on SGW and I remember a thread about 3 or 4 years ago where a poster (who I think posts on ShootClay) described how he'd switched his master eye through training. IIRC no one much accepted the possibility even though he linked to scientific research into neural pathways which pretty well proved it.

 

Not convinced you can switch your master eye but he prolly "trained" himself as I have. 

[Smokersmith]

Good post ..

That's pretty much how I fixed mine too .....

[Hamster]

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

Interesting post Hamster. I think I do a similar thing if I've read your post correctly, but rather than practise in the field I do it at home. I am right handed with a left master eye, and despite suspecting it for some years had deigned to ignore it lest it prey on my mind and adversely affect my shooting, but my optician eventually confirmed it . It puzzled me to be honest as I actually hit much more than I miss, but then around six months ago I started shooting very inconsistently with my favoured gun. I at first put this down exclusively to lack of practise outside the season as I had moved house and didn't get out with a gun as much as I used to. Anyhow, renewing my interest in shooting clays I discovered I shot better with a trap gun than my sporter, and so raised the comb slightly on the latter so I was seeing more of a 'ramp' ( or a figure eight if two beads are present ) than my previously preferred view of an almost entirely flat plain and just the bead. 

Another thing I did, having realised I didn't do it as often ( again, down to not going out as often ) was practise my mount in the mirror. Since taking up clays again I am not only getting out much more with a gun ( several in fact! ) but practising my mount much much more, which brings me round to the entire purpose of this post, which is MY method of dealing with an opposite master eye. 

When in a trap stand I work out my killing point for each clay, and as most are on report this as we all know, can become a compromise between the two birds, offering us the best chance to break the first without screwing ourselves into the ground to kill the second, and so in front of the mirror my killing zone becomes that mirror, and I adjust my stance accordingly. With the gun down I close my eyes and mount the gun, taking care not to see-saw the gun and ensuring it hits my cheek and shoulder at the same time. I then open my right eye ( as I'm right handed ) and through the mirror see where my eye is in relation to that rib or bead. If I've got it right, all I should see is my right eye looking back at me. After checking I open both eyes and relax for a second or two. If I've got it wrong, rather than adjusting my mount, I dismount and close my eyes again, and repeat, and repeat, making slight adjustments with each mount with my eyes shut, until I've got it right. Once it's correct, I repeat and repeat ad infinitum until muscle memory takes over and that gun comes up to the right position each and every time. Then I practise some more. Take that gun out of your cabinet and practise even just for five minutes each day...believe me, five minutes is a long time when you're doing this! Practise this is your summer shooting clothes and your winter shooting clothes. 

I shoot both eyes open and always have; to me there is no alternative. My scores are again consistently rising ( or at least consistently at the higher end of the card ) and I (eventually ) had a fabulous game season, and although I'll never be world class I have the knowledge that MOST days I can hold my own and again hit much much more than I miss.

Because of my practise routine I now know that whenever and wherever I shoot, I have done all that is possible to minimise the effects of an opposite master eye, and any misses are often down to something else in the vast array of possible causes of missing. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read it, I know it's a bore in places but unless you read it all it's difficult to get the full gist of it. 

4 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Good post ..

That's pretty much how I fixed mine too .....

😃

My master eye is still the left one, what I fixed was its ability/tendency to pull my aim off. 

[timps]

1 hour ago, Westward said:

I enjoy an occasional lurk on SGW and I remember a thread about 3 or 4 years ago where a poster (who I think posts on ShootClay) described how he'd switched his master eye through training. IIRC no one much accepted the possibility even though he linked to scientific research into neural pathways which pretty well proved it.

 

It was me, I even posted about it on here first and described my method. The shotgunworld post ran into quite a lot of pages and despite the numerous scientific journals and papers published that I linked backing my claim to be true due to Neuroplasticity in adults, a book "An Insight to Sports Featuring Trapshooting and Golf " which was published (1984) was the only thing our American cousins would believe. 

Basically, according to them medical science and the understanding of how the brain worked stopped in 1984 when this book on Trapshooting and Golf was published and any subsequent research published by very eminent scientists means absolutely nothing.😂

48 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Not convinced you can switch your master eye but he prolly "trained" himself as I have. 

Whether I trained it as a learnt dominance or if the visual cortex did indeed physically change won’t be found out on me unless you pull my eyes out and see my visual cortex. 

However, the research I posted on that thread and subsequent research that wasn’t available at the time proves you can change dominance by reactivating juvenile like ocular dominance plasticity in adult rats and cats. 

The tests proved ocular dominance plasticity in the adult visual cortex could be reactivated by wearing an eye patch / blocking off a healthy eye for a very short period and it was a true physical change to the visual cortex that could be physically measured.

My post at the time was just to prove that dominance is not set for life as some people think and can be changed in adults by wearing an eye patch constantly for a few weeks / months, although I have no idea how long it would take in humans compared to rats / cats as that's not the way I did it. But the papers did state that if you could train your brain to use a particular eye then the extra use of that eye would indeed change the pathways as it was being used more. 

In my case I was clearly left eye dominant now I’m right eyed, the two schools of thought are a physical change to the visual cortex or subconscious learnt superimposed dominance. 

Both are plausible and have been proven, as to which I have isn’t going to be found out soon as I like my eyes in my head for the time being, however, if you run any of the normal dominance tests on me now then I am right eyed dominant and I don't have to think about it.  

It is a very interesting subject to say the least.

Edited March 8, 2019 by timps

[Hamster]

52 minutes ago, timps said:

It was me, I even posted about it on here first and described my method. The shotgunworld post ran into quite a lot of pages and despite the numerous scientific journals and papers published that I linked backing my claim to be true due to Neuroplasticity in adults, a book "An Insight to Sports Featuring Trapshooting and Golf " which was published (1984) was the only thing our American cousins would believe. 

Basically, according to them medical science and the understanding of how the brain worked stopped in 1984 when this book on Trapshooting and Golf was published and any subsequent research published by very eminent scientists means absolutely nothing.😂

Whether I trained it as a learnt dominance or if the visual cortex did indeed physically change won’t be found out on me unless you pull my eyes out and see my visual cortex. 

However, the research I posted on that thread and subsequent research that wasn’t available at the time proves you can change dominance by reactivating juvenile like ocular dominance plasticity in adult rats and cats. 

The tests proved ocular dominance plasticity in the adult visual cortex could be reactivated by wearing an eye patch / blocking off a healthy eye for a very short period and it was a true physical change to the visual cortex that could be physically measured.

My post at the time was just to prove that dominance is not set for life as some people think and can be changed in adults by wearing an eye patch constantly for a few weeks / months, although I have no idea how long it would take in humans compared to rats / cats as that's not the way I did it. But the papers did state that if you could train your brain to use a particular eye then the extra use of that eye would indeed change the pathways as it was being used more. 

In my case I was clearly left eye dominant now I’m right eyed, the two schools of thought are a physical change to the visual cortex or subconscious learnt superimposed dominance. 

Both are plausible and have been proven, as to which I have isn’t going to be found out soon as I like my eyes in my head for the time being, however, if you run any of the normal dominance tests on me now then I am right eyed dominant and I don't have to think about it.  

It is a very interesting subject to say the least.

Had I participated in that thread I'd have been very much on your side because I have found that too often accepted "facts" and established practices from yesteryear turn out to be little more than dogma based on someones assumptions. It's easy to see how it would happen because if you were a gun enthusiast back in the 60-70's and borrowed a book on "shooting flying" from the library ☺️ you'd have little reason or experience to disagree with anything written within it ! Shooting being a sociable sport we then go around pontificating our new found knowledge to friends and anyone else within earshot, words spread and opinions become gospel. 

Eye matters are so complex that we're even now probably nowhere near half way to understanding it. In my case I haven't tried to change my eye dominance but merely alter the "process" in such a way as to prevent it taking over as much as humanly possible.  

[timps]

To be fair to the book it was written in 1984 and the reason why it was thought you could not change dominance was due to the brain being hard wired after the critical stage.

If you had asked neurologists could the pathways be rewired in an adults in the late 70’s early 80’s then most would have said no due to the research of Hubel and Wiesel who even received the Nobel Prize in 1981 for their work. Ask the same question now and it is accepted due to the proven research from the likes of Michael Merzenich, Jon Kaas and Doug Rasmusson yes it can and has been done.

A lot of the research has been centred around vision and dominance recently.

The trouble with that forum is bring a new double choke with a sideways twist on the market and some vocal posters will tell you that it instantly gets you ten targets. However, criticise a book written in 1984 and the same poster will say you are Beelzebub’s love child and recite something abut the Boston tea party proving why all limey's are wrong😀 .

[Westward]

Hi timps. I remember the  username now.

In the interim I've found a book on neuroplasticity called "The Brain that Heals Itself" and it's fascinating to read about the ways in which the brain can rewire it's pathways when presented with the appropriate stimuli and training.

[timps]

I’ve not read that book so will give it a look over that’s for sure. 

In response to hamster’s OP the training is along the lines of my own so I agree with what you say. The only difference is I also did a lot with pointed fingers, broom handles etc. Every day repetitively throughout the day. 

I’d swing left to right then right to left try and stop on a lamppost, telegraph poles etc. with both eyes open. I’d then shut my left eye and see if the sight picture moved.  

At first I only saw one sight picture so it was hard, then I started to see 2 sight pictures, then I could pick and choose, now I see only one again but instead of left it’s right.

[Perazzishot]

Ben Husthwaite has launched an eye dominance attachment today!

[Scully]

1 hour ago, timps said:

I’ve not read that book so will give it a look over that’s for sure. 

In response to hamster’s OP the training is along the lines of my own so I agree with what you say. The only difference is I also did a lot with pointed fingers, broom handles etc. Every day repetitively throughout the day. 

I’d swing left to right then right to left try and stop on a lamppost, telegraph poles etc. with both eyes open. I’d then shut my left eye and see if the sight picture moved.  

At first I only saw one sight picture so it was hard, then I started to see 2 sight pictures, then I could pick and choose, now I see only one again but instead of left it’s right.

That's an interesting variation on the theme also. I have to admit my method is time consuming, but then nothing worthwhile is ever easy, but I'm at the stage now where I can mount a gun with both eyes open and on closing my left, and despite still being left eye dominant, my right is exactly where it should be.....looking down that rib. 

Practise, practise and practise...and then practise some more is the only way to go in my opinion. I'm not comparing myself to either Ronnie O'Sullivan nor Lee Westwood nor anyone else, but they didn't get to where they are without practising. 

[supatex]

I've not been shooting long but I'm right handed with left eye dominance. I've tried the thing that appears to glow that you fit behind the sight at the end of the barrel but it just didn't work for me. I then tried something that you stick on your glasses in front of your dominant eye. This partially worked when you looked straight ahead  but any slight eye movement away from the straight ahead position and my dominant eye took over.I had resigned myself to the fact that I would have to shoot with one eye closed. Then someone told me about ShootSP. In desperation I bought one. It's a tiny plastic black bead that you stick between the barrels on the right hand side for right handers and on the left hand side for left handers. You stick it about an inch from the end of the barrels. I don't know how or why but this thing works,(for me anyway).It doesn't spoil the look of the gun because its so small. When you mount the gun your non dominant eye takes over and the image of the other barrel you see from the dominant eye is hardly noticeable . They are on offer at the moment for £30, normal price £59.99. I know the offer price is still expensive for what it is but for me I was desperate and it works. I now know if I miss a target its nothing to do with wrong eye dominance. I'm nothing to do with the company who make them but I just thought it may be of interest to anyone with the same problem as me. 

[Wb123]

On 09/03/2019 at 18:14, supatex said:

I've not been shooting long but I'm right handed with left eye dominance. I've tried the thing that appears to glow that you fit behind the sight at the end of the barrel but it just didn't work for me. I then tried something that you stick on your glasses in front of your dominant eye. This partially worked when you looked straight ahead  but any slight eye movement away from the straight ahead position and my dominant eye took over.I had resigned myself to the fact that I would have to shoot with one eye closed. Then someone told me about ShootSP. In desperation I bought one. It's a tiny plastic black bead that you stick between the barrels on the right hand side for right handers and on the left hand side for left handers. You stick it about an inch from the end of the barrels. I don't know how or why but this thing works,(for me anyway).It doesn't spoil the look of the gun because its so small. When you mount the gun your non dominant eye takes over and the image of the other barrel you see from the dominant eye is hardly noticeable . They are on offer at the moment for £30, normal price £59.99. I know the offer price is still expensive for what it is but for me I was desperate and it works. I now know if I miss a target its nothing to do with wrong eye dominance. I'm nothing to do with the company who make them but I just thought it may be of interest to anyone with the same problem as me. 

Try shooting from your left shoulder. When I changed shoulder it was a revelation. 

[supatex]

I'll give it a try, thanks

[Agriv8]

Very interesting read.

from my experience 

i am neither eye dominant ( or just slightly to the right eye ) if I shut my left it leads me down the I’ll just check the bead / aim . I can shoot both eyes open but depending on how close the target is I see double barrels. Shooting without the bead works sometimes but I can still check the barrels from the rib!!

My main problem is not really the eye but the brain behind it. on the first pair I usually hit them ( especially if I have not seen them before ) second pair my brain wants to see how much lead I gave to hit em and I miss as I pull my vision back to the bead.

My best way to overcome is try and be consistent. mount on kill zone wind back 1/2 way to pickup point take gun out of shoulder a little move head to pickup then relax shoulders shout pull.

Regardless of eyes open or one shut if I try and think of lead at the barrel I will check my gun / sight so i watch the clay then imagine a 30cm shot circle on the clay . Then I move the position of this depends on speed and direction of clay. When that is in the right place I pull the trigger.

I suppose my 2p on all this theory is fine but the eye is passing info to the brain to process and everyone brain is wired differently! 

I still mis quite a few and I have not found a successful way to hit incomer over head . But I enjoy my shooting all the same I shoot with a guy who shot for Ireland and my other shooting mate is usually arround the same score if I get within 5 of them that’s a win for me.

I guess I am saying it’s more important for me to enjoy myself and trying to improve my score than winning ! 

Atb Agriv8

[Salopian]

Have any of you tried the SP device ?                                  Shoot SP  is the facebook page and tells you all about it , seems to be having good reviews.

[Hamster]

1 hour ago, Salopian said:

Have any of you tried the SP device ?                                  Shoot SP  is the facebook page and tells you all about it , seems to be having good reviews.

I have a kit ready to test, will report back in due course. 

[Dangerzone]

On 20/04/2019 at 08:08, Salopian said:

Have any of you tried the SP device ?                                  Shoot SP  is the facebook page and tells you all about it , seems to be having good reviews.

I have seen two or three SP on people’s guns, 0 success!!! I seen a German lady at the weekend with an eye D rail, huge success 

[Hamster]

5 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I have seen two or three SP on people’s guns, 0 success!!! I seen a German lady at the weekend with an eye D rail, huge success 

What do you call zero V huge success ? 

[Scully]

I was a bit sceptical when I saw the ad' for this SP thingy, as I don't see the picture they are stating those with master eye issues see peripherally, and I have a left master eye. All my concentration is on the target so I'm not aware of anything else. 🤔