police forms

[terence]

west Yorkshire forms say weapons purchased / weapons sold  this realy winds me up and im going to approach them about it I don't class any of my firearms as weapons just bought a new knive should I notife them more knives used as weapons than firearms

does your force put weapons or firearms  thanks for replys

[bluesj]

Sussex use the terms firearm or shotgun

[TIGHTCHOKE]

12 minutes ago, terence said:

west Yorkshire forms say weapons purchased / weapons sold  this realy winds me up and im going to approach them about it I don't class any of my firearms as weapons just bought a new knive should I notife them more knives used as weapons than firearms

does your force put weapons or firearms  thanks for replys

Why are you so upset about the term "weapon" it is after all what they are?

[bluesj]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why are you so upset about the term "weapon" it is after all what they are?

But its a bit of a vague term to use in this context and also points people to think that if you own a gun you are going to shoot some one. most of mine would be better termed as tools.

Is a hammer a tool or a weapon?

[old'un]

The Oxford dictionary defines ‘Weapon’.. “A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage” I guess you could argue we inflict that on our quarry.

[wymberley]

The King's English has it as an instrument to fight with and Chamber's, as any instrument of offence or defence.

[terence]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why are you so upset about the term "weapon" it is after all what they are?

maybe its just me but I think its wrong mine are sporting firearms if you hunt its a tool

the term weapon just winds me up at club I ask members not to call them weapons

 

 

 

 

[mossy835]

not bothered what there called.

[welsh1]

lol this regularly comes up about sporting rifles and "weapons.

Just because you use it for sport does not make it any less of a weapon, it's primary purpose is to inflict injury, therefore it is a weapon ,rifles , pistols and shotguns were developed for this specific purpose., your hammers primary purpose is to hit nails/ metal etc that is what it was developed for so it is not classed as a weapon, but the moment you decide to play at being the Yorkshire ripper, your hammer becomes a weapon because it inflicts harm.

[Newbie to this]

13 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

lol this regularly comes up about sporting rifles and "weapons.

Just because you use it for sport does not make it any less of a weapon, it's primary purpose is to inflict injury, therefore it is a weapon ,rifles , pistols and shotguns were developed for this specific purpose., your hammers primary purpose is to hit nails/ metal etc that is what it was developed for so it is not classed as a weapon, but the moment you decide to play at being the Yorkshire ripper, your hammer becomes a weapon because it inflicts harm.

So what category does my target rifle fall in? It was designed to shoot targets.

I don't class any of my firearms as weapons, because that is not there intended use.

From Collins dictionary, specifically mentions when used in a fight or a war.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Snowflakes everywhere!

[welsh1]

10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

So what category does my target rifle fall in? It was designed to shoot targets.

I don't class any of my firearms as weapons, because that is not there intended use.

From Collins dictionary, specifically mentions when used in a fight or a war.

 

Your target rifle is a weapon, it is based on an design of something to inflict injury, just because you use it for shooting at targets does not change its primary design as a weapon.
 

[Ultrastu]

Your wrong .sorry but you are .

A shot gun can be a weapon .

A hammer can be a weapon 

A pencil can be weapon 

Words can be weapons 

When you intend to do harm to another  PERSON ( not animal ) you use a weapon .it can also be used defensively .

A gun is a tool . They can be used for many things .like hammers and pencils .

If you use it to hurt people, THEN AND ONLY THEN does it become a weapon .

Like stabbing some one with a pencil or using a stick .

The implication that a shot gun or rifle of any kind is always a weapon is wrong absolute. 

That is  the mind set of all the anti gun brigade and if you buy into it .your no better than them .

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Ultrastu

[Newbie to this]

2 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Your wrong .sorry but you are .

A shot gun can be a weapon .

A hammer can be a weapon 

A pencil can be weapon 

Words can be weapons 

When you intend to do harm to another  PERSON ( not animal ) you use a weapon .it can also be used defensively .

A gun is a tool . They can be used for many things .like hammers and pencils .

If you use it to hurt people, THEN AND ONLY THEN does it become a weapon .

Like stabbing some one with a pencil or using a stick .

The implication that a shot gun or rifle of any kind is always a weapon is wrong absolute. 

That is  the mind set of all the anti gun brigade and if you buy into it .your no better than them .

TOOL .

 

Spot on

[Ultrastu]

The screen shot above from the collins page confirms what i have said. 

It refers to doing harm to people only .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Your wrong .sorry but you are .

A shot gun can be a weapon .

A hammer can be a weapon 

A pencil can be weapon 

Words can be weapons 

When you intend to do harm to another  PERSON ( not animal ) you use a weapon .it can also be used defensively .

A gun is a tool . They can be used for many things .like hammers and pencils .

If you use it to hurt people, THEN AND ONLY THEN does it become a weapon .

Like stabbing some one with a pencil or using a stick .

The implication that a shot gun or rifle of any kind is always a weapon is wrong absolute. 

That is  the mind set of all the anti gun brigade and if you buy into it .your no better than them .

TOOL .

 

Always good to endere yourself to the Moderators by calling them names!

[Ultrastu]

Eh ? 

[welsh1]

4 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Your wrong .sorry but you are .

A shot gun can be a weapon . A shotguns primary design was to cause injury WEAPON

A hammer can be a weapon A hammers primary design is to hit nails/ metal etc , its not a weapon until you decide to hit someone with it

A pencil can be weapon  A pencils primary design is to draw on surfaces, stick it in someones eye it becomes a weapon

Words can be weapons Words are a way to communicate, if you use them in such a way as to cause harm then they could be considered a weapon, but remember "sticks and stones" 

When you intend to do harm to another  PERSON ( not animal ) you use a weapon .it can also be used defensively .it is still a weapon in both cases, just because you are defending does not make it so, the lads at rorke's drift  were only defending

A gun is a tool . They can be used for many things .like hammers and pencils . A gun is an ambiguous word the Artillery fire guns, if you refer to pistols then they are weapons, others you describe such as a nail guns, their primary design is to put a nail into material not to inflict injury

If you use it to hurt people, THEN AND ONLY THEN does it become a weapon .anything you use to hurt people becomes a weapon

Like stabbing some one with a pencil or using a stick . Yes, now you are getting it

The implication that a shot gun or rifle of any kind is always a weapon is wrong absolute. it's primary design is to inflict injury, you may not like it, you may not agree, but that is why it was designed, and so it will always be a weapon

That is  the mind set of all the anti gun brigade and if you buy into it .your no better than them .I have numerous weapons in my gun cabinets, and spent many years in the military using many different type of weapons, if you think i am an anti you are grossly mistaken.

TOOL . insulting someone instead of debating shows that you have lost the argument before you start🤣

 

 

[Ultrastu]

Just now, welsh1 said:

 

Ok Last first. Tool ? An insult .how so ? Im not following you .

I was reiterating that a gun is a tool .

Your taking something out of context some how.

Now to the first .

A shot gun was never ever designed as a weapon .it was designed as a sporting tool to scatter small bird shot to kill birds in flight. 

Even if its loaded with slugs or buck shot it still makes a poor weapon compared to perpose designed military rifles or hand guns. 

I dont accept in the slightest a shotguns primary function is as a weapon to harm people .NOPE NOT AT ALL .

So as soon as we accept that UNLESS these tools above are used offensively against people. (Where they would be classed as weapons ) they remain classed as tools only .

Including your shotguns and your 50 cal.

And your chain saw and plastic ruler. 

And garden rake .

 

 

[Newbie to this]

13 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

TOOL . insulting someone instead of debating shows that you have lost the argument before you start🤣

I don't think he was calling you a tool, more stating that a gun is a tool.

We will have to agree to disagree, we obviously interpret the definition of weapon completely differently. To me nothing is a weapon, until it is used as one.

[Ultrastu]

Just now, welsh1 said:

I have numerous weapons in my gun cabinets, and spent many years in the military using many different type of weapons, if you think i am an anti you are grossly mistaken.

I think possibly due to your service you see guns as weapons as you see what they are capable of . (Thats perfectly understandable) and they were your tools of trade .

But my guns are my tools of trade (to a small extent ) and they awill  ALLWAYS be of a sporting nature and never will they become weapons in my hands.

[welsh1]

9 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Ok Last first. Tool ? An insult .how so ? Im not following you .

I was reiterating that a gun is a tool .

Your taking something out of context some how.

Now to the first .

A shot gun was never ever designed as a weapon .it was designed as a sporting tool to scatter small bird shot to kill birds in flight. -  So its primary design was to cause injury, weapon

Even if its loaded with slugs or buck shot it still makes a poor weapon compared to perpose designed military rifles or hand guns. as i said it's primary design is to cause injury

I dont accept in the slightest a shotguns primary function is as a weapon to harm people .NOPE NOT AT ALL .Who mentioned humans ? it is designed to cause injury .

So as soon as we accept that UNLESS these tools above are used offensively against people. (Where they would be classed as weapons ) they remain classed as tools only .If they were originally developed to cause injury then they are weapons, and will stay in that category

Including your shotguns and your 50 cal. primary design weapons, they remain weapons

And your chain saw and plastic ruler.  primary design to cut wood , and to measure, not weapons, until you use them to cause injury, then that chainsaw becomes a weapon, not every chainsaw in the world just the one you used to cause injury, as they were not designed in the first place to cause injury, but to cut wood.

And garden rake . see above

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I think possibly due to your service you see guns as weapons as you see what they are capable of . (Thats perfectly understandable) and they were your tools of trade .

But my guns are my tools of trade (to a small extent ) and they awill  ALLWAYS be of a sporting nature and never will they become weapons in my hands.

I see my rifles and shotguns as tools,used for different things but i also understand they are in the category of weapons, calling it a sporting gun or whatever you want cannot take it out of it's category.

Please don't try to tell me what i think because of my background, the only person who knows what i think is me.

[Ultrastu]

Just now, welsh1 said:

So its primary design was to cause injury, weapon

I think this is where we arent seeing eye to eye .

Shot gun-  primarily designed to cause injury to birds .in flight .

You see that as meaning weapon .

I see that as sporting tool 

I see injury to humans as meaning weapons 

I dont see injury to animals as weapons .Its the same as the words 

Murder .rape .pilage .homocide etc 

People  often use these words when talking about animals .but these are words than can only be used for acts against humans .

Just because the language of some people is poor or slack doesnt make it correct. (Not a criticism aimed at you ) 

A shot gun remains a tool and can only be classed as a weapon when its missued against a human .I put it to you what is the primary purpose  of a knife ?.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Ultrastu

[Ultrastu]

Just now, welsh1 said:

 

Just now, Ultrastu said:

Ok Last first. Tool ? An insult .how so ? Im not following you .

I was reiterating that a gun is a tool .

Your taking something out of context some how.

Now to the first .

A shot gun was never ever designed as a weapon .it was designed as a sporting tool to scatter small bird shot to kill birds in flight. -  So its primary design was to cause injury, weapon

Even if its loaded with slugs or buck shot it still makes a poor weapon compared to perpose designed military rifles or hand guns. as i said it's primary design is to cause injury

I dont accept in the slightest a shotguns primary function is as a weapon to harm people .NOPE NOT AT ALL .Who mentioned humans ? it is designed to cause injury .

So as soon as we accept that UNLESS these tools above are used offensively against people. (Where they would be classed as weapons ) they remain classed as tools only .If they were originally developed to cause injury then they are weapons, and will stay in that category

Including your shotguns and your 50 cal. primary design weapons, they remain weapons

And your chain saw and plastic ruler.  primary design to cut wood , and to measure, not weapons, until you use them to cause injury, then that chainsaw becomes a weapon, not every chainsaw in the world just the one you used to cause injury, as they were not designed in the first place to cause injury, but to cut wood.

And garden rake . see above

 

 

 

Just now, Ultrastu said:

I think possibly due to your service you see guns as weapons as you see what they are capable of . (Thats perfectly understandable) and they were your tools of trade .

But my guns are my tools of trade (to a small extent ) and they awill  ALLWAYS be of a sporting nature and never will they become weapons in my hands.

I see my rifles and shotguns as tools,used for different things but i also understand they are in the category of weapons, calling it a sporting gun or whatever you want cannot take it out of it's category.


 

Ive never seen shot guns or rifles in the category of." Weapon " 

So no need to "try take them out of it " 

I guess it depends on the start point of our mind set .

[welsh1]

If i shoot my dog, with my shotgun have i used it as a weapon?

Sporting tool is just a name that some ad man came up with to sell weapons, and make people feel more comfortable with them

A weapon is something used to cause injury, it doesn't matter if it's a fish a bird a mammal or a reptile.

As to your knife, it depends on what design of knife, A sykes fairbairn  was designed with one thing in mind to kill, the knife you use on your kitchen table was designed to eat food, it all comes down to primary design(what was it initially being developed and designed to do),