Rewulf Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dave-G said: So what of a dealer who sells a gun for a customer and takes a commision on it? That's a good point. I have noticed however recently, some 2nd hand gun sales in gunshopd saying commission sale on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 As said earlier surely it's in the wording? "Fit for purpose" is fine if the gun is described as (something like) "Currently working but likely to need a service/attention soon". Would that not describe it's purpose accurately? Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dave-G said: So what of a dealer who sells a gun for a customer and takes a commision on it? I imagine its the traders legal responsibility to ensure the gun is safe, as described, fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, before offering it for sale, on a commission basis or otherwise? Edited June 8, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rake aboot Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 Dealer has to warrant it even if a commission sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Rake aboot said: Dealer has to warrant it even if a commission sale. Where are you getting that information from? If a dealer is selling 'on behalf of' he is acting as an intermediary surely. No dealer/trader would bother selling on commission if they were legally obliged to fix or reimburse someone else's goods. Do car or any other goods auctions have to stand by goods they have sold on commission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) Simple solution here dont buy if you’re worried or take a chance and have a bargain well that’s how I see it sold as seen Edited June 9, 2019 by Old farrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted June 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 No simple solution here at all OF - when a well known dealer is clearly breaking the Law it's a sad state of affairs - some poor chap may have spent all his hard earned cash on such a gun then think he has no back up whatsoever. The very statement of "no warranty"is actually an offence in itself. AFAIK commission sales are a different story - if the money is paid to the seller then no warranty is acceptable, but if you were to pay the dealer then the contract is between you and the dealer and would, no doubt, leave him with some portion of liability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 minute ago, bruno22rf said: No simple solution here at all OF - when a well known dealer is clearly breaking the Law it's a sad state of affairs - some poor chap may have spent all his hard earned cash on such a gun then think he has no back up whatsoever. The very statement of "no warranty"is actually an offence in itself. AFAIK commission sales are a different story - if the money is paid to the seller then no warranty is acceptable, but if you were to pay the dealer then the contract is between you and the dealer and would, no doubt, leave him with some portion of liability? Appreciate what your saying however the poor chap spending his hard earned can and should say the same and hopefully his mates would advise the same as your buying into hassle alternately if you know the well known dealer point trading standards in the right direction and maybe they can straighten it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, bruno22rf said: No simple solution here at all OF - when a well known dealer is clearly breaking the Law it's a sad state of affairs - Which law is he breaking? He is telling you it does not come with a warranty, so no warranty implied , goods are being sold as not of merchantable quality, its up to you to take them, or not, understanding the implications. If you believe different, buy the gun, and if it goes wrong, take him to trading standards then possibly court, the law is on your side isnt it ?? You said- 'The very statement of "no warranty"is actually an offence in itself. ' The very statement you have just made is utter rubbish. The fact is you said very recently that you dont 'buy' anything until you are happy with the goods received, unless the vendor is willing to send you the goods for your perusal without payment, you dont buy ? So just tell them to send you the gun, use it for a bit, then if youre happy, pay them ? Edited June 10, 2019 by Rewulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Which law is he breaking? He is telling you it does not come with a warranty, so no warranty implied , goods are being sold as not of merchantable quality, its up to you to take them, or not, understanding the implications. If you believe different, buy the gun, and if it goes wrong, take him to trading standards then possibly court, the law is on your side isnt it ?? The very statement you have just made is utter rubbish. The fact is you said very recently that you dont 'buy' anything until you are happy with the goods received, unless the vendor is willing to send you the goods for your perusal without payment, you dont buy ? So just tell them to send you the gun, use it for a bit, then if youre happy, pay them ? I was replying to a quote not me that said it was a offence rewoulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Old farrier said: I was replying to a quote not me that said it was a offence rewoulf Sorry , quote got messed up ! Ill edit it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Sorry , quote got messed up ! Ill edit it . No worries it happens all the time 😂😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted June 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Rewulf - I have no intention of buying the gun, just highlight the fact that some dealers are breaking the law. If you do not believe that a business is breaking the law by stating "no warranty" then simply give CAB a call - it is an offence to remove or attempt to remove someones consumer rights.Come back once you have spoken to them.You will of course be aware that, as from Oct 2015, anything you buy used, from a dealer, is subject to the same warranty cover, as if you had bought the item brand new.Your comment regarding my buying/selling guns is totally irrelevant - those are MY terms of business, anybody not willing to agree with them - I simply dont deal with, no hassle, no bad feelings.Sold a gun just last week and posted it off with no payment being asked for - once the buyer had recieved the gun and checked it over he paid for it, that's how I like to work. Edited June 10, 2019 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Ok, hands up I don't know the 100% of this but people are saying this is against the Law, I don't believe it is. The dealer has made the terms of the potential product sale known, the purchaser is aware of this before he hands over the money. If this is against the law can someone please tell me which law, and the specific section that applies. Edited June 10, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 I can’t see what the big deal is if the dealer is selling with out a warranty and the price reflects that what’s the problem you buy it or you don’t god what a drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: anything you buy used, from a dealer, is subject to the same warranty cover, as if you had bought the item brand new. If you buy something brand new , it comes with a manufacturers warranty of (usually) 1 year. So the dealer doesnt really have to cover it himself, out of his own pocket as it were. So are you implying that the dealer has to give the same warranty on 2nd hand goods , AND pay for repairs/replacement out his own pocket ? 7 minutes ago, Dekers said: If this is against the law came someone please tell me which law, and the specific section that applies. Id like to see it too, because theres an awful lot of people out there breaking the law if true. 2 minutes ago, snow white said: I can’t see what the big deal is if the dealer is selling with out a warranty and the price reflects that what’s the problem you buy it or you don’t god what a drama. Illegal apparently, life imprisonment . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted June 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Under the sale of goods act 2015 it is ILLEGAL to exclude or attempt to exclude a buyers statutory rights, what is so difficult to understand? Read the Act. Last comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Under the sale of goods act 2015 it is ILLEGAL to exclude or attempt to exclude a buyers statutory rights, what is so difficult to understand? Read the Act. Last comment. By not offering a WARRANTY you are not attempting to exclude their statutory rights ! Their rights as regards the 2015 sale of goods act have got NOTHING to do with warranties. You can still REJECT 2nd hand goods, if you dont believe they are fit for purpose or faulty up to 30 days after sale. You stated the trader was breaking the law by not offering a warranty, he doesnt have to. But he does have to respect your stat rights, if you choose to exercise them. In this example, if you buy the gun and it works, as it should, but no warranty given, you still have 30 days to test it, and return if it develops a fault. After that, you can still return it for repair within 6 months, at which point , wear and tear will be considered in a resolution. After 6 months , you have to prove it was faulty at point of sale, virtually impossible. Again , you stated it was illegal to sell without a warranty, it is not. If a dealer CHOOSES to give one, it runs alongside your stat rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Caveat Emptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hamster said: Caveat Emptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus69 Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) Dealer selling without warranty legal or not : The short answer is not !! The "Consumer Rights Act" is quite specific. and should you buy it you are covered in law should the air rifle turn out to be faulty irrespective of whether the sale took place at a shop, car boot sale, or anywhere at all. A commission sale will be "subject to contract" , with the dealer just acting as facilitator between seller and purchaser. Should the seller be a trader then again you are covered by law under the Consumer Rights Act with the seller and not the dealer facilitating the sale. If the seller (not the dealer ) is a private individual then Caveat Emptor applies . As for the private sale of a car it is illegal for anyone to sell a vehicle in an "unroadworthy" condition, however if the buyer is made fully aware that the vehicle is in an unroadworthy condition at the time of sale and accepts that fact then the buyer has no recourse. Edited July 28, 2019 by Magus69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Magus69 said: Dealer selling without warranty legal or not : The short answer is not !! The "Consumer Rights Act" is quite specific. and should you buy it you are covered in law should the air rifle turn out to be faulty irrespective of whether the sale took place at a shop, car boot sale, or anywhere at all. A commission sale will be "subject to contract" , with the dealer just acting as facilitator between seller and purchaser. Should the seller be a trader then again you are covered by law under the Consumer Rights Act with the seller and not the dealer facilitating the sale. If the seller (not the dealer ) is a private individual then Caveat Emptor applies . As for the private sale of a car it is illegal for anyone to sell a vehicle in an "unroadworthy" condition, however if the buyer is made fully aware that the vehicle is in an unroadworthy condition at the time of sale and accepts that fact then the buyer has no recourse. Sorry, I don't accept that...which LAW says that? If a dealer makes it clear that a product is sold with no warranty in as seen condition, then which LAW says he can't!?!?! Edited July 28, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 36 minutes ago, Dekers said: Sorry, I don't accept that...which LAW says that? If a dealer makes it clear that a product is sold with no warranty in as seen condition, then which LAW says he can't!?!?! I covered it above, but he either didn't read or understand it. Statutory rights are not a warranty. They are rights to recourse if the seller doesn't supply one. New goods usually have manufacturers warranty, which the seller administrates, second hand goods from a trader do not have to be warranted if the trader chooses not to, this does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I covered it above, but he either didn't read or understand it. Statutory rights are not a warranty. They are rights to recourse if the seller doesn't supply one. New goods usually have manufacturers warranty, which the seller administrates, second hand goods from a trader do not have to be warranted if the trader chooses not to, this does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer. Lets assume I didn't understand it, kindly enlighten me in big letter which LAW and the specific wording and section that says it is illegal If a dealer makes it clear that a product is sold with no warranty in as seen condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 Just now, Dekers said: Lets assume I didn't understand it, kindly enlighten me in big letter which LAW and the specific wording and section that says it is illegal If a dealer makes it clear that a product is sold with no warranty in as seen condition. I wasnt referring to you Dekers , I meant magus. You have it correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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