toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, WelshMike said: Not in all cases. Ironically I havent given myself permission in writing to shoot on my own ground...but its only 28 acres. Not sure where the info I posted went... Try page 40 section 6.21 of the below item https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-201 But that has now been superseded by the policing and crime act 2017. It does away with terms like servant but it states that the person doing any supervising of unlicensed shooters must have his permission from the land owner in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 toontastic in over twenty years of shooting on many farms i have only once been giving a letter saying i have shooting permission i have been asked a few good times by police who i shoot for in the area when i have been stopped when i have given the farmers name and said i have his phone number if you want to phone him they have thats ok they dont need to phone him this has also when out at night with the lamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, toontastic said: But that has now been superseded by the policing and crime act 2017. It does away with terms like servant but it states that the person doing any supervising of unlicensed shooters must have his permission from the land owner in writing. Cheers for the info. To be fair I dont supervise unlicensed shooters. My "supervision" is of licence holders with a mentoring condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 minute ago, scarecrow243 said: toontastic in over twenty years of shooting on many farms i have only once been giving a letter saying i have shooting permission i have been asked a few good times by police who i shoot for in the area when i have been stopped when i have given the farmers name and said i have his phone number if you want to phone him they have thats ok they dont need to phone him this has also when out at night with the lamp You don't need permission letters as apparently all your farmers have given you the shooting rights, I have also never said anyone needs permission letters to go shooting. I did however quote the relevant act from 2017 which says that if an unlicensed shooter is being supervised by someone other than the land owner/rights holder then the person doing the supervision must have written permission from the land owner/rights holder but this law doesn't appear to apply to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: toontastic in over twenty years of shooting on many farms i have only once been giving a letter saying i have shooting permission i have been asked a few good times by police who i shoot for in the area when i have been stopped when i have given the farmers name and said i have his phone number if you want to phone him they have thats ok they dont need to phone him this has also when out at night with the lamp I started off with a closed ticket for my rifle and needed a 686 form signing each time. I have carried on with this since the ticket was opened on all of the land that I shoot over. It avoids any ambiguity and i can add notes if there are any shooting exclusions or rules to to be applied and can add contact numbers / names etc. Without it I would find it impossible to keep track of the perms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Penelope said: In what way? Shooting related accident or injury? All covered in BASC syndicate cover. Guests are also covered under the policy. hypothetically If the land owner / tenant wants to claim of the syndicate for damages to crops margins timber or anything else ie syndicate members son turns over a quad fuel spills and contamination of the ground/crop or he lets his son have a go with a rifle and a stray shot punctuated a grain silo who's liable all of you or the two names on the lease or the lad or his parent Just curious here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoo If you have the rights to shoot the deer then you'll have a legally binding contract between you and the farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoot NO! You have permission from the holder of the shooting rights. Two totally different things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, London Best said: NO! You have permission from the holder of the shooting rights. Two totally different things! what on earth are you on about he or she own the land if they give you the permission to shoot foxes and deer and as i said you are the only one who has the authority to shoot foxes and deer you have the shooting rights i live on a farm and i shoot on the farm with 12g .22rf .243 all legal quarry so you are saying i dont have shooting rights because i dont pay say £1000 a year as i dont pay anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoot If you have the shooting rights then you'll be able to possibly do a few things. You'll be able to allow whoever you want to come onto the land and shoot the deer, if the land owner wanted to take up stalking you'd be able to stop him shooting deer on the land(as you have the rights) and if you got skint you could always go to an estate agents and sell the rights. 1 minute ago, scarecrow243 said: what on earth are you on about he or she own the land if they give you the permission to shoot foxes and deer and as i said you are the only one who has the authority to shoot foxes and deer you have the shooting rights i live on a farm and i shoot on the farm with 12g .22rf .243 all legal quarry so you are saying i dont have shooting rights because i dont pay say £1000 a year as i dont pay anything You don't get it do you, shooting rights are part of the estates value they are covered by the deeds of the land. You have permission to shoot not the rights if you had the shooting rights even the land owner couldn't shoot without your say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 gods sake i give up i really do no matter you can carry on your way and i will carry on my way as i have said i have had no problem from the police or firearms departments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: gods sake i give up i really do no matter you can carry on your way and i will carry on my way as i have said i have had no problem from the police or firearms departments I give up as well, I'm sat down with a land agent and a solicitor specialising in shooting rights and you even have both of them baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 when did i say anything about an estate NOT once i am talking about farms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just to clarify the exact wording of the act is :- The first condition is that the borrowing and possession of the rifle or shot gun are for either or both of the following purposes— (a) hunting animals or shooting game or vermin; (b) shooting at artificial targets. (3) The second condition is that the lender— (a) is aged 18 or over, (b) holds a certificate under this Act in respect of the rifle or shot gun, and (c) is either— (i) a person who has a right to allow others to enter the premises for the purposes of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or (ii) a person who is authorised in writing by a person mentioned in sub-paragraph (i) to lend the rifle or shot gun on the premises (whether generally or to persons specified in the authorisation who include the borrower). (4) So on a farm you either have to be in a position to control who does or doesn’t enter the premises for shooting or have written authority from the person that does have that authority stating you can lend your gun to others either directly named or anyone in general . Permission to shoot even if you are the only one allowed is none of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 every farm i have shot on has allowed me to take other people shooting i always ask the farmer if it is ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Exactly! You ask the farmer, because more than likely he holds the shooting rights. But not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Without written permission from the farmer stating you can lend your gun to others and you fall foul of the above act. Verbal permission is not allowed under the act it quite clearly states it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: every farm i have shot on has allowed me to take other people shooting i always ask the farmer if it is ok Look at it this way and see if it clarifies matters; even the landowner cannot give anyone permission to shoot on his own land if he doesnt own the shooting rights. Our rough shoot is owned by a mate of mine, and there is some great fishing along its perimeters on the Eden, but even he can’t fish it as the rights to fish it belong to a local hotel. Edited July 8, 2019 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 the land owners do NOT rent lease the land to anyone else is that plain enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Still doesn’t alter the fact you need specific written permission from the farmer to lend your gun to others. Unless you are in a position to tell the farmer who can and cannot shoot on his land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 its like talking to a brick wall last reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 minute ago, scarecrow243 said: its like talking to a brick wall last reply It is isn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, toontastic said: It is isn't it. 21 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: its like talking to a brick wall last reply As there appears to be general acceptance in this topic bar just the one exception and that exception has now opted out, this would seem the ideal time to finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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