Brexit - merged threads

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Far easier to be consistently wrong when you insist on posting such biased nonsense.

PS - I have made a number of contributions to this topic, which amply demonstrates that you seldom get it right.

I'm with you on this Gordon, some of his posts are more than a bit bizarre, he can't actually believe a lot of what he writes so I think he is just on a wind up. Don't feed the Troll.

[JRDS]

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not sure I follow your argument? 

 

Whilst not binding the Spelman amendment agreed last night rejects no deal. 

500 odd MP's have already signed up to No Deal as the default option by voting for A50, they can't vote down a No Deal as it is the default position if TM's *** Deal is voted down.  So the amendment which was not binding was totally pointless other than to weaken our negotiating position.

[Rewulf]

14 hours ago, oowee said:

The UK car industry collapsed in part because it was based and only based in the UK. It was unable to protect itself against currency shifts and national trends. Only a global business will survive. The Japanese learnt this first and now we all follow. The JLR (Tata) business in SK is not an EU project. 

 

It collapsed because of all manner of thing , unions , quality issues, dated designs, it did not collapse because it was ONLY based in the UK .
You want to believe that because that fits your 'global' argument.
How many Mercedes are built in the UK , VAG group ect ? Most German car manufacture for the Euro market is based in guess where ? Germany, its a massive part of the German power base, yes some Seats are made in Spain and such, but the big money stays on home soil.

You say that JLR in SK is not an EU project, yet you stated earlier that SK was a 'priority' country for development, who decided that then ?
And who decided that Birmingham could take the hit with job losses ? JLR or the EU ?

14 hours ago, oowee said:

And so what? The government is still subsidising the north. 

Thats one of the worst answers youve ever given in this debate.
The 'government' doesnt 'subsidise' anything, it uses our money to run the services of this country and assist business where needed.
If the 'North' ends up in a poor state, the whole country ends up in a poor state, do the poor boroughs of London need subsidising also ?
We pay into the pot to the betterment of the country, that includes Ireland , Wales and Scotland, we are a nation, in it together.

You think subsidising a Romanian beetroot farmer will benefit the people of this country ?
Using our money to help set up a factory building Discoverys in Slovakia, when they could have been built here ?
50,000 staff to help run this , all on gold plated pensions and fat salaries and expense accounts, while tens of thousands of people in this country have no where to live, many sleeping rough and dying in the cold ?
Its all very well having heady global aspirations for this country, but you cannot build for the future on pillars of sand.

Charity begins at home, and its time we stopped paying into the EUs, because thats all it is.

[oowee]

23 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It collapsed because of all manner of thing , unions , quality issues, dated designs, it did not collapse because it was ONLY based in the UK .
You want to believe that because that fits your 'global' argument.
How many Mercedes are built in the UK , VAG group ect ? Most German car manufacture for the Euro market is based in guess where ? Germany, its a massive part of the German power base, yes some Seats are made in Spain and such, but the big money stays on home soil.

You say that JLR in SK is not an EU project, yet you stated earlier that SK was a 'priority' country for development, who decided that then ?
And who decided that Birmingham could take the hit with job losses ? JLR or the EU ?

 

It was all maner of things but exposure to global production influenced those things also. I did not say global production was the only issue but certainly it was part of the problem as acknowledged by the Japanese manufacturers and later those from the US. The Japanese global outsourcing program showed other manufacturers how to do it. 

Mercedes are built world wide the same is true of VAG. 

It's surely likley that if a company is producing a well respected product with a large home following that it is likely to be made locally. You say ; Germany its a massive part of the German power base. That's surely like saying Germany is in Germany 🙂 The companies that you speak of are traded commodities. They are global businesses traded globally.  

Who decided that the new investment in JLR would go to Slovakia? The owners of the company 'Tata' of course. Another global industry working for the benefit of its shareholders. 

[pinfireman]

15 hours ago, oowee said:

The UK car industry collapsed in part because it was based and only based in the UK. It was unable to protect itself against currency shifts and national trends. Only a global business will survive. The Japanese learnt this first and now we all follow. The JLR (Tata) business in SK is not an EU project. 

 

Tell that to JLR workers................and , until recent times, Mercedes, Audi, Volkswagen and Porsche were only based in Germany. It was the chance to snatch up carmakers in the newer, poorer, nations  that encouraged them to move outwards..And Porsche are still only in Germany?  Surely, they should be moving to Albania? 

15 hours ago, oowee said:

And so what? The government is still subsidising the north. 

n 2016 the EU spent €136 billion—or about £110 billion, at the average exchange rate for 2016. That's a few billion less than what the UK spent on the NHS. The Court said the EU’s accounts in 2016: “present, in all material respects, a true and fair view of the EU’s financial results for the year and its assets and liabilities at the end of the year.… We were therefore able to give a clean opinion on the reliability of (i.e. ‘sign off’) the accounts, as we have done every year since 2007.

But it did find that 3.1% of EU spending was subject to error. This is slightly lower than in previous years, but as long as the estimated error is above a threshold of 2%, it’s considered “material”.

However, the “entitlement payments” (rewards for meeting conditions, rather than payments for costs incurred) were found to have an error level below the 2% threshold.

This meant that, for the first time since 1994, the accounts were given a “qualified”, rather than “adverse”, opinion. The auditors found that: “A significant part of the 2016 expenditure audited was not affected by a material level of error”.

Error is not always the same as fraud or waste

Just because some money is paid in error doesn’t mean people all the people involved have deliberately tried to defraud the EU. 

A small minority of the cases that the auditors look at each year involve suspected fraud. The UK’s Public Accounts Committee of MPs has concluded for years that the complexity of the EU’s spending programmes, which creates misunderstandings, contributes towards these errors.

It also doesn’t necessarily mean the money was ‘wasted’, just that it wasn’t paid out according to the rules. One way to run afoul of the rules, for instance, is to award an EU-funded contract directly without holding a proper bidding process. Even though the rules haven’t been followed, it's not always the case that another firm would have been able to put in a lower bid.

£4 Billion  unaccounted for..........Perhaps they overpaid Neil Kinnock?

14 hours ago, oowee said:

Let's hope she has not been stitched up and we just get this appalling outcome instead of falling into the abys of no deal.

Now we can spend the next two years begging to get half way back to where we were. Meanwhile we can try and work up an appetite for cheap chicken and gm cereals or maybe look forward to our new easy in visa system for the sub continent. Your right I overlooked the huge sales opportunity with our antipodean friends to sell them ................... i dont know you will have to help me out. 

🙂 That's just my Cynical view and of course I could be wrong.

You often are.....:-)

14 hours ago, Gordon R said:

oowee - you have turned "being wrong" into an art form, as you are rarely, if ever, right. I doff my cap to you in peddling rubbish, consistently. Your "facts" are comedy gold.

He should be on the Standup circuit.................they could do with a few laughs there!

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

It was all maner of things but exposure to global production influenced those things also. I did not say global production was the only issue but certainly it was part of the problem as acknowledged by the Japanese manufacturers and later those from the US. The Japanese global outsourcing program showed other manufacturers how to do it. 

The Japanese manufacturers faced stiff import taxes, back in the 80 s and 90 s , so moved production to the countries they were selling cars.
Toyota, Nissan and Honda built large factories and went into partnership with the likes of Rover and Renault to make their product cheaper and create that British made incentive to buy.
Nothing to do with wanting to be globalist, simply good business.
You can be as 'global thinking' as you like , but if no one wants to buy your product , you are stuffed.

 

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

Mercedes are built world wide the same is true of VAG. 

See above, Merc , BMW and VAG build cars in the areas that they sell, the US market has long had an affection for German cars, but until they set up facories there, they hhad to be imported, which made them expensive, they still are compared to Yank motors.
So again, NOTHING to do with global markets, just business.
If German cars didnt sell over there , they wouldnt be built over there.

 

12 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's surely likley that if a company is producing a well respected product with a large home following that it is likely to be made locally. You say ; Germany its a massive part of the German power base. That's surely like saying Germany is in Germany 🙂 The companies that you speak of are traded commodities. They are global businesses traded globally.  

No, I said most German car manufacture for the Euro market is based in Germany, with the exception of MINI , when has a German car been made in the UK ?

 

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

Who decided that the new investment in JLR would go to Slovakia? The owners of the company 'Tata' of course. Another global industry working for the benefit of its shareholders.

Of course they did, with sweeteners from the EU , sweeteners paid for , in part , by us.
So I ask you again, how did the EU  help us in this respect ?

[pinfireman]

14 hours ago, ordnance said:

But mainly because most of the cars ( not all ) were ****, poorly designed and built. 

It collapsed because the unions  were hell bent on causing trouble! More than a dozen unions at Longbridge, and every time one went on strike and gained  a rise, the others followed to gain "parity"! It was a nightmare. Plus, greedy shareholders constantly wanting dividends, thus taking what little profit there was, and leaving nothing for future investment and new models! Add to that third rate management, without the bottle to take on the unions, and you have a perfect storm!  When Nissan decided to build a plant in Sunderland, it was on one condition.....they would only deal with one union, and a "moderate" one at that! That,s why Nissan Sunderland is the most productive plant in Nissan,s empire!

5 hours ago, oowee said:

👍Good to see you following the contributions. Easy to be right Gordon when your only contribution is not to make one.

Here is the start of the trade deal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47036119

Which way forward for UK farming? I reckon it's going to be good for deer stalking if we can do a trade deal. 

Not if Caroline lucas and friends have their way.......plus most of the Lib?Dems and Labour! Remember foxhunting?

5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'll agree that I'll be glad to see a deal also, provided it actually means we leave, doesn't stop or interfere with us trading with other countries, stops automatic right for people to settle or work here and doesn't require us to pay money to them to trade, otherwise the referendum result hasn't been delivered and we should simply walk away. 

CORRECT!

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Not sure I follow your argument? 

 

Whilst not binding the Spelman amendment agreed last night rejects no deal. 

Good to see it,s NOT binding............

[pinfireman]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

It collapsed because of all manner of thing , unions , quality issues, dated designs, it did not collapse because it was ONLY based in the UK .
You want to believe that because that fits your 'global' argument.
How many Mercedes are built in the UK , VAG group ect ? Most German car manufacture for the Euro market is based in guess where ? Germany, its a massive part of the German power base, yes some Seats are made in Spain and such, but the big money stays on home soil.

You say that JLR in SK is not an EU project, yet you stated earlier that SK was a 'priority' country for development, who decided that then ?
And who decided that Birmingham could take the hit with job losses ? JLR or the EU ?

Thats one of the worst answers youve ever given in this debate.
The 'government' doesnt 'subsidise' anything, it uses our money to run the services of this country and assist business where needed.
If the 'North' ends up in a poor state, the whole country ends up in a poor state, do the poor boroughs of London need subsidising also ?
We pay into the pot to the betterment of the country, that includes Ireland , Wales and Scotland, we are a nation, in it together.

You think subsidising a Romanian beetroot farmer will benefit the people of this country ?
Using our money to help set up a factory building Discoverys in Slovakia, when they could have been built here ?
50,000 staff to help run this , all on gold plated pensions and fat salaries and expense accounts, while tens of thousands of people in this country have no where to live, many sleeping rough and dying in the cold ?
Its all very well having heady global aspirations for this country, but you cannot build for the future on pillars of sand.

Charity begins at home, and its time we stopped paying into the EUs, because thats all it is.

BRILLIANT!

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

It was all maner of things but exposure to global production influenced those things also. I did not say global production was the only issue but certainly it was part of the problem as acknowledged by the Japanese manufacturers and later those from the US. The Japanese global outsourcing program showed other manufacturers how to do it. 

Mercedes are built world wide the same is true of VAG. 

It's surely likley that if a company is producing a well respected product with a large home following that it is likely to be made locally. You say ; Germany its a massive part of the German power base. That's surely like saying Germany is in Germany 🙂 The companies that you speak of are traded commodities. They are global businesses traded globally.  

Who decided that the new investment in JLR would go to Slovakia? The owners of the company 'Tata' of course. Another global industry working for the benefit of its shareholders. 

How come you never blame the unions for the collapse of the British car industry? I know they are not solely to blame, but they were a large part of it!

The British commentariat has for the past three years delighted in reporting EU negotiating position as if it is an immovable object, the revealed gospel itself. That’s not what their track record in major negotiations suggests…

In 2010 it was almost universally received wisdom in the media and markets that there would be no Greek bailout. All the top figures vigorously denied it was even a possibility, as the Maastricht Treaty specifically precluded such a rescue package. As the EU kept reminding us…

The European Central Bank’s chief economist Jurgen Stark said that Greece does not meet the terms for a bailout, and that “The Treaties set out a ‘no bail-out’ clause, and the rules will be respected. This is crucial for guaranteeing the future of a monetary union.”

European Monetary Affairs Commissioner Joaquin Almunia insisted there was “no special EU plan for Greece”

Angela Merkel said “We have a Treaty under which there is no possibility of paying to bail out states.”

Of course, later in 2010, Greece received €310 billion in bailout money, despite that being illegal under treaty…

Guido would gently suggest to political pundits that negotiations are negotiations, and portraying the word of one side as if it is the word of the almighty, especially in the context of a contradictory track record, is beyond daft. The EU claims that the backstop is unlikely to come into play, so a time limit on something that is unlikely to happen is not a reason for the EU to force a disorderly Brexit. The EU consistently bends the rules when they come under pressure…

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The Japanese manufacturers faced stiff import taxes, back in the 80 s and 90 s , so moved production to the countries they were selling cars.
Toyota, Nissan and Honda built large factories and went into partnership with the likes of Rover and Renault to make their product cheaper and create that British made incentive to buy.
Nothing to do with wanting to be globalist, simply good business.
You can be as 'global thinking' as you like , but if no one wants to buy your product , you are stuffed.

 

See above, Merc , BMW and VAG build cars in the areas that they sell, the US market has long had an affection for German cars, but until they set up facories there, they hhad to be imported, which made them expensive, they still are compared to Yank motors.
So again, NOTHING to do with global markets, just business.
If German cars didnt sell over there , they wouldnt be built over there.

 

No, I said most German car manufacture for the Euro market is based in Germany, with the exception of MINI , when has a German car been made in the UK ?

 

Of course they did, with sweeteners from the EU , sweeteners paid for , in part , by us.
So I ask you again, how did the EU  help us in this respect ?

Good business is globalism. BMW engines are made at Hams hall. JLR is to make new battery facilities on the same site. No EU money was involved in teh JLR favcility in SK indeed quite the opposite. The EU (bless their righteousness) are investigating the funding deal to see if it breached state aid rules. I am fed up of saying this now. The EU do not move companies about.

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am fed up of saying this now. The EU do not move companies about.

I suppose they didnt move that one then https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

Im sure youve seen this before but here you go again

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/74ab02a6-fd85-11df-a049-00144feab49a

An interesting look at EU funding in 2016, the more green the less you get , the more red..well ,you get the idea

Edited January 30, 2019 by Rewulf

[Vince Green]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I suppose they didnt move that one then https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

Im sure youve seen this before but here you go again

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

Sorry to correct you Rewulf but you should have said "with ILLEGAL EU Grant"

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

Sorry to correct you Rewulf but you should have said "with ILLEGAL EU Grant"

Covered it in my edit 

[Rewulf]

No bias, no real opinions, just some facts for your perusal.

https://thistimeitisdifferent.com/the-real-economics-of-brexit?fbclid=IwAR1Z83XSdtmExcAT4avxZDMoAMupJ7kxjxFt3DpeOURdCBmlF_NdruQz-UE

[Rewulf]

The 'logic' of Verhofstadt 

Sky News

 

✔@SkyNews

 

EU's #Brexit co-coordinator @guyverhofstadt says the backstop is a safeguard and an insurance is "needed" to ensure there is no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

The Brexit Steering Group, led by Verhofstadt, has reiterated its position on the largely intractable issue of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

“…The withdrawal agreement is fair and cannot be re-negotiated,” the group said in a statement Wednesday.

“This applies especially to the backstop ... without such an ‘all-weather’ backstop-insurance, the European Parliament will not give its consent to the withdrawal agreement.”

 

So, in summary , the backstop to AVOID a hard border is that important to the EU , that they are prepared to reject ANY DEAL that does not include it, thereby forcing the UK into a no deal/WTO situation that will mean a hard border that will be INSISTED upon by the EU ?
Makes perfect sense 🤣
Oh  , and they dont get that £39 billion that is virtually essential to balance their budget ?

 

72

7:42 - 30 янв. 2019 г.

[Retsdon]

45 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I suppose they didnt move that one then https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

Im sure youve seen this before but here you go again

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/74ab02a6-fd85-11df-a049-00144feab49a

An interesting look at EU funding in 2016, the more green the less you get , the more red..well ,you get the idea

Ironic really, when you consider that Britain was one of the chief advocates of eastward expansion.

Anyway, it's all irrelevant now. Post Brexit, the EU will continue to offer incentives for inward investment to less well-off areas, with the added bonus of a manufacturer then having favoured access to the Single Market of 300 million people. Companies can also move components, inventory, labour, and finance seamlessly across the borders of 27 countries, and into the EEA as well. Where are they going to site any new plant? UK or Europe? It's a no-brainer. As your man Mitford said, it's goodbye to British manufacturing. 

But s price worth paying.

 

[Rewulf]

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

it's goodbye to British manufacturing

It's goodbye if we stay, as has been amply demonstrated over the past 40 years! 

At least this way we have a chance to rebuild it. 

Who knows, after brexit the ex pat rules might get relaxed enough to let you back in? 😂 and you can help with that.

[Retsdon]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It's goodbye if we stay, as has been amply demonstrated over the past 40 years! 

You can't blame the EU for the demise of British manufacturing. We were the 'sick man of Europe' before we even joined. Bad management and short-term thinking have been the curse of British industry for donkeys years.

[Retsdon]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Who knows, after brexit the ex pat rules might get relaxed enough to let you back in? 😂 and you can help with that

What rules?0

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

I suppose they didnt move that one then https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

Im sure youve seen this before but here you go again

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

 

Garbage in garbage out.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Cadbury was bought by Kraft, which is American. Kraft shafted Cadbury. The EU had nothing to do with it.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cadbury-closes-british-factory-to-move-101746

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

This is the only one that seems to have some truth in it. Ford did get a loan (not a grant) from the EU for their Turkish plant (which was already building most of the Transits), and after that their Southampton plant closed. The EU had already loaned money to Ford UK but that doesn’t appear to have saved it.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.Focus_on_Ford__The___80m_EU_loan_for_Ford_s_Turkish_Transit_plant/

JLR is being investigated by the EU over the government grant so answered and it goes on. I could answer them all. The Hornby project I know and there was no EU money involved. There is a thriving games industry in the UK, Sega, Lanner, DCA design to name a few. 

I do not have the time and inclination to go through them all. Cutting and pasting garbage does not make it true. 

 

 

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

You can't blame the EU for the demise of British manufacturing. We were the 'sick man of Europe' before we even joined. Bad management and short-term thinking have been the curse of British industry for donkeys years.

Tell that to the steelworkers, miners and car industry. 

Tell it to the farmers who rely on CAP, because they can't produce what they want for EU quotas. 

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Cutting and pasting garbage does not make it true

Being in denial doesn't make it false either. 

You said the EU doesn't move businesses, but it certainly helps it happen, and directly or in directly finances it. 

[Yellow Bear]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

I do not have the time and inclination to go through them all. Cutting and pasting garbage does not make it true. 

Which is why I don't bother to do it for your posts.

[ditchman]

just listened to Michelle Barnier...............god they are intransigent..................im mortally sick of the whole thing and i think alot of other people are too..........i just want shot of this lot ASAP.....even if it means we suffer short term pain..............

how on earth did we get so sucked into the EU over so many years without the politicos seeing what was happening is beyond me.........christ they are like a legalised mafia..

i cant even begin to understand what all the made up fuss is all about...and really , now i dont care.........i feel like a person who is about to go self employed after working and being turned over by a big employer for so many years.....................and a little bit down the line after a bit of pain and worry , i will be thinking to myself.."should have done this a long while ago...what a fool ive been"

 

...............

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, ditchman said:

how on earth did we get so sucked into the EU over so many years without the politicos seeing what was happening is beyond me.........christ they are like a legalised mafia..

By stealth, over time the changes are not so noticeable, but in this digital age, everything said now is logged, and can be bought up from the last 20 years or so, which has lead to the uncovering of more lies and subterfuge than I care to think about.

 

13 minutes ago, ditchman said:

.i feel like a person who is about to go self employed after working and being turned over by a big employer for so many years.....................and a little bit down the line after a bit of pain and worry , i will be thinking to myself.."should have done this a long while ago...what a fool ive been"

Good analogy 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

You can't blame the EU for the demise of British manufacturing. We were the 'sick man of Europe' before we even joined. Bad management and short-term thinking have been the curse of British industry for donkeys years.

And why were we the sick man of Europe?

Because we helped liberate them from tyranny, only finally paying off our war debt in the 90s, we rationed into the 50s, while other countries were either invaded or went impartial. 

The UK has payed its debt to Europe and then some, both financially and in blood, the EU really does have a cheek. 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

The UK has payed its debt to Europe and then some, both financially and in blood, the EU really does have a cheek

The only problem is, theyve spent the last 70 years rebuilding the reich .
Its almost as if we wasted our time..money and blood.