markm Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Just started a new case of express 28 bore / 25gm / size 6. Normally shoot the same gun and express 28bore / 28gm / size 6. Same cartridge heavier load Never had a problem before, gun is a browning cynergy hunter with 70mm chambers. Do you think I should contact express? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Definitely. That looks just like the ragged end when a cartridge is overlong for the chamber. Usually though a 67.5" cartridge in a short coned 2.5" chamber - that looks more catastrophic. Can you open one up manually and measure the overall length for what would be the fired condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) Have that very often with factory RCs and Eley and on occasion with one or two of my own reloads using Fiocchi cases in 410. Never had it happen with Hull High Pheasant factory....... YET. Does not appear to upset the pattern to much as birds still fall out of the sky. The first time I had one with my reloaded Fiocchis was this week. I have never had it happen before and not with Fiocchi factory. Do not know the reason. I contacted Just Cartridges about the RCs but never got a reply or explanation. I shoot a Yilditz 410 O/U and have had it happen with my Mossy pumper as well. Edited October 6, 2019 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted October 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, wymberley said: Definitely. That looks just like the ragged end when a cartridge is overlong for the chamber. Usually though a 67.5" cartridge in a short coned 2.5" chamber - that looks more catastrophic. Can you open one up manually and measure the overall length for what would be the fired condition? Hi. The gun is newish with 70mm chamber. It’s not a 65mm, 100 year old sxs . I have shot the same brand and load through it since I got it. I used the last of last seasons up on Saturday and the carts went with the rubbish. This was a new case (bought at a different time) but the same all round. Picked around 20 out my pocket. All the same. Edited October 6, 2019 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Fibre wads? roll turn over closure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Fibre wads ? Had it happen with both. Roll turn over? ...no all star crimped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Yep, I know that your gun and the Supremes are both 2.75". What I'm saying is what the damage looks like - but more severe - and you need to talk to Lyalvale - unless it's my eyes, I can't seem to see any sign of the crimps apart from perhaps a faint crease on the bottom case. As the problem at the moment is unidentified, an overlong case can be eliminated if one is manually opened and measured in the fired condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastair0903 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Think this is a known issue with the cartridges. I shot my mates 28g cyngery Hunter last season, he handed my a box of express 25g 5’s. I had the exact same problem as picture above. apparently the same was happening when another friend put the same loads through his 28g silver pigeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Looks like the ones in the photo are roll turn over? My thinking is friction between the wad and the inside of the case is causing the wad to rip part of the case away. looks to happen occasionally with both 28ga and .410, I have seen half the case disappear with .410 not ideal but like Walker570 states never cause me any problems, but if concerned speak to lyalvale and email photo to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 Looks like a combination of a tight crimp and very fast powder, pressure pulse is traveling through crimp before it is fully opened and case material strength is less than crimp strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 6, 2019 Report Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) I've had a few crimps rip apart when I reloaded for steel, spinning a bit to long on the spinner when more oil lube was needed melting the plastic a bit. Caused it to tear where it was thin. Edited October 6, 2019 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I had exactly the same with a slab of Eley 16g VIP Game. Contacted Eley and sent them some of the affected cartridges. They replied promptly and asked that I return the remaining unfired cartridges via my local RFD, which I did (well, some of them anyway) They very quickly sent me a new slab as a replacement, stating that they would let me know the result of any tests that were carried out on the faulty ones. I never heard back from them, but suspect that as the cases are made in Italy, then it was a case (excuse the pun) of a faulty batch from Italy, the cause of which I`ll never know, or indeed care as the replacements work perfectly. I would add that the affected cartridges all performed well and did not appear to lose any effectiveness, provided that I held the gun straight. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted October 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just off the phone to express. Even before I went into details they knew the problem. The polymer of the cartridge has a low melting point. After firing there is some contraction. They have tested them and no negative effect on pattern or pressure. Offered to swap or just shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 If they're fiber wad I would want them swapping as your shooting plastic crimp ends out the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 This is definitely wrong, contact manufacturer. It seems a lot of pressure but hope is only a batch of dodgy plastic shells. Either ways something slipped through QA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 I'd guess there cheddite cases as I have some for Wildfowling that are distorting when loading and the shot is pressing through the case stopping them chambering in a semi auto. The plastic is very soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 i guess this is just using enough materiel to have a case that can just survive 1 firing. i bought a job lot of old hulls ages ago. infact they were a random purchase old hulls that were un fired. the plastic was amazingly thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, figgy said: I'd guess there cheddite cases as I have some for Wildfowling that are distorting when loading and the shot is pressing through the case stopping them chambering in a semi auto. The plastic is very soft. I think you have hit the nail Figgy. I have noticed even with Fiochi cases that the shot shows quite a bit through the side of the shell case like small pimples. The 'plastic' is much thinner than before. As said I have had the same happen with both factory(star crimp) and my own reloads (star crimp) and as said sometimes half the case has vanished but mainly just the end burned as in the photos. The only shell I have not had it occur is factory High Pheasant 410 and that case when reloaded. Just checked the cases and the Hull do seem to be a bit stronger than the Fiocchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Many cartridges are like this now. Thin plastic. Victory and old Winchester were lovely and thick but guess it’s production costs and we have to think of environmental reasons also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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