How Critical is Health Testing

[Alex C]

Hi All,

We have found a litter of pups who we really like the look of. However, Neither Dam nor Sire have been health tested. The parents / grandparents have been tested and show decent, if not great Hip scores.

The breeder is asking strong money for the dogs for this area, and I have seen both Dam and Sire who both looked lovely. Breeder seems a very genuine guy and just says that a lot of time the tests are a waste of time and tell you nothing of how the pup may turn out later in life, so he wont waste his money.

Question is , How critical are the health tests ? From what I understand the hip scores give no guarantee that the pups suffer with hip dysplasia later in life. Would you discount them from the off or should I carry on with them ?

Advice would be welcomed !

[GingerCat]

Wouldn't risk it myself.

[bigbird]

It’s always a lottery with hips and elbows but knowing the parents’ scores puts the odds in your favour if they’re good, that’s all.

There’s loads of factors to hip dysplasia, genetic predisposition of course being one of them.

Personally I wouldn’t touch if the pups are expensive though especially if the parents / grandparents have only ‘decent’ scores.

If I’m honest it just smacks of laziness on the part of the breeder to me but I could be wrong.

Good luck whatever you decide 😊

[PERCE]

There's plenty of people out there health testing quality working dogs & selling them for sensible money. Show patience & shop around until you find the right dog.

[Lloyd90]

On 01/12/2019 at 23:25, Alex C said:

Hi All,

We have found a litter of pups who we really like the look of. However, Neither Dam nor Sire have been health tested. The parents / grandparents have been tested and show decent, if not great Hip scores.

The breeder is asking strong money for the dogs for this area, and I have seen both Dam and Sire who both looked lovely. Breeder seems a very genuine guy and just says that a lot of time the tests are a waste of time and tell you nothing of how the pup may turn out later in life, so he wont waste his money.

Question is , How critical are the health tests ? From what I understand the hip scores give no guarantee that the pups suffer with hip dysplasia later in life. Would you discount them from the off or should I carry on with them ?

Advice would be welcomed !

 

Its an odds game with hips, but the other genetic conditions can be tested for and ruled out. If the breeder isn't testing for anything I would go elsewhere. 

[Alex C]

Thanks all. I think that we have made the decision to leave this litter and we'll keep looking. So if anyone knows of any litters of good working labs in the durham / north yorks area, please let me know

Thanks

[itchy trigger]

it is only a guide, it should shorten the odds in your favour.

my bitch is hopefully in pup, not had her tested but at 2+ years old the way she moves and runs I would not think there is any problem with her, (neither of her parents were tested), picked the stud solely on looks, big athletic looking dog, good natured, soft mouthed, very similar to my bitch, it's only because the dog is in demand as a stud that his owner in the process of having him tested, they have the same outlook on this as I do, looks count, they are having a bitch pup out of the litter.

know people who bred following all the procedures, tests going back generations, thought they had it right, got throwbacks, that's what you get going for 'names' over form

Edited December 7, 2019 by itchy trigger
phrasing

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, itchy trigger said:

it is only a guide, it should shorten the odds in your favour.

my bitch is hopefully in pup, not had her tested but at 2+ years old the way she moves and runs I would not think there is any problem with her, (neither of her parents were tested), picked the stud solely on looks, big athletic looking dog, good natured, soft mouthed, very similar to my bitch, it's only because the dog is in demand as a stud that his owner in the process of having him tested, they have the same outlook on this as I do, looks count, they are having a bitch pup out of the litter.

know people who bred following all the procedures, tests going back generations, thought they had it right, got throwbacks, that's what you get going for 'names' over form

 

Whilst hip score testing does not give any guarantee's, testing for other genetic conditions can absolutely 100% rule out your pup having a number of diseases or issues. 

You can get bad luck with any dog, but if you have bred two dogs that are tested and neither have the genetics for a condition, it is impossible for them to have a "throwback" and have pups that have that condition. 

 

The only "throwbacks" you would ever experience is from people breeding two dogs that are carriers but not effected, this can happen when you breed two non health tested dogs together as you have no idea what you are getting. 

 

 

[itchy trigger]

the people were very thorough and diligent in their background checks, but still got both dogs and bitch's in the litter with knackered hips

 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, itchy trigger said:

the people were very thorough and diligent in their background checks, but still got both dogs and bitch's in the litter with knackered hips

 

 

Did you read my post properly?  ... Hips scoring can give you odds, but environmental factors can also play a part, like running young dogs too much and causing damage when young.

As noted in my earlier post, it isn't solely about hip scores. There are a number of issues you can eliminate.

 

Are you suggesting there is no worth in any type of health testing because some dogs get bad hips anyway? 

 

[sam triple]

To  me imo it’s like buying a car with no service history and expect it to carry on trouble free for 10 years ,but I am  sceptical 

Edited December 8, 2019 by sam triple

[Big Mat]

Health tests will not tell you how a pup will turn out, but it will rule of hereditary diseases, and with the case of hip scores,  give an indication as to a possible future problem. Although hips and elbows are also affects but how they are raised, levels of intensity of exercise etc.

You might not see a problem right away, but what happens when there has been a couple of litters and problems that could have been seen by health testing , start to show up? Could be alot of dogs will a problem by then.

I know of that happening in a particular kind of sausage dogs, coupled with one breeder not disclosing when the first problem showed up, several years down the line, there is alot of dogs with a disease that would have shown up on a test.

Personally,  I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole if the breeder shows no regard to the benefits of health testing, especially at top price as well. 

 

There are thousands of labradors bred every year,  you'll find one soon enough.  

[Dave at kelton]

I have worked labs now for thirty years and whilst I never breed from them always want a pup from tested parents with low hip scores. As has been said though it does not guarantee perfection it reduces the odds of a problem later. I had one dog I did think of breeding from had the X-ray done but the vet said not to think about submitting as the scores were off the scale. That dog worked till twelve and died at fourteen with no problem whatsoever. He was kept light and fit.

there are so many good breeders out there the advice to bide your time is sound.

[PERCE]

On 07/12/2019 at 11:16, itchy trigger said:

my bitch is hopefully in pup, not had her tested but at 2+ years old the way she moves and runs I would not think there is any problem with her, (neither of her parents were tested), picked the stud solely on looks, big athletic looking dog, good natured, soft mouthed, very similar to my bitch, it's only because the dog is in demand as a stud that his owner in the process of having him tested, they have the same outlook on this as I do, looks count, they are having a bitch pup out of the litter.

I had an athletic bitch, quick, could clear a 5 bar gate with ease. I had a queue of people wanting a pup from her so I hip / elbow scored her. She scored 51/53 for the hips. What looks good isn't always what is good.