Walker570 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) I don't watch Dave Carries films, the music drives me mad and I have never seen any guns walk in slow motion before...shame really , just overdone. I did pull up out of interest a video he did on 410 cartridges and right from the start it became apparent he was about to deride 410s....... 2 1/2 inch at 55yrds, expecting to have a pattern of sorts at all was in dreamland as any of us who shoot 410s seriously appreciate. He then proceeded to move down to 40 yrds and 30yrds with some 3 inch cartridges which he did not name, which appeared to be garbage shells anyway because the wad was sticking to the shot and embedding in the back plate, still with shot attached. He also failed to tell what chokes he was using in the gun and as he loaded each shell in the lower chamber assume it was an open choke. I purchased a second full choke tube for my Yilditz so I could shoot full and full. His results bore no relation to any patterning I have done with both my own loads and also Fiocchi 3 inch and Hull High Pheasant 3 inch which from my shotgun produced excellent tight patterns with almost all the shot evenly spread within a 30 inch circle and buried the shot the depth of the shot into the marine ply backboard. If he signs a disclaimer I will use his backside as a pattern plate for my reload 7s as he said on the video he would happily expose his posterior to the cartridges he was using. Personally I do not want to shoot crossing birds at 55yrds as they will undoubtably be my neighbours birds. I am also not a "willywaver" wanting to shoot birds out at 70 -80yrds even with a 12 gauge. Edited February 9, 2020 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 +1. Well said. it's a live creature not a clay pigeon. If you want to shoot something at seventy yards shoot artificial targets or go wildfowling and buy a 10 Bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 He has done a few of those .410 vids where he revisits the cal with the help of his mate who reloads .410 and is a fan .he is somewhat won over and learns the limits of the cal in terms of distance and effectiveness. Finally he take a .410 ou on a specific small cal game day and shoots ok with it . He basically concludes that .410 is more of an experts gun rather than a kids or learner cal . Personally im not sure .i agree with his findings of 30 yds being about the range limit .and yes to shoot a .410 on a tricky game or flighting day then a huge level of skill is required to be successful. BUT .i think the light weight .low recoil (and noise ) can be a massive benefit to youngsters and newcomers alike .the lumits of the cal make you pick your shots better and as such the hit rate can go up .i certainly find i often have more sucess with my .410 over my 20b s for exactly this reason . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 If your sitting in a hide and the birds are decoying well into 20 /25 yds i think there is little difference between the ability of a 12 v .410 . Both should have a wide enough pattern will plenty of pellets to fill it and oodles of energy per pellet . Having tested mine and my mates .410 s (1/2 choke ) against 4 x 20 bs and a 12b. The pattern sizes are all roughly the same (with 1/4 - 12 chokes in the 20 s and 12 ) And as such a pigeon in it is just as well hit irrespective of the the gun or cal . Push that to 40 yds and the .410s fail .obviously. but thems the limits . I will certainly be starting my boy when i feel he is ready on a .410 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: He has done a few of those .410 vids where he revisits the cal with the help of his mate who reloads .410 and is a fan .he is somewhat won over and learns the limits of the cal in terms of distance and effectiveness. Finally he take a .410 ou on a specific small cal game day and shoots ok with it . He basically concludes that .410 is more of an experts gun rather than a kids or learner cal . Personally im not sure .i agree with his findings of 30 yds being about the range limit .and yes to shoot a .410 on a tricky game or flighting day then a huge level of skill is required to be successful. BUT .i think the light weight .low recoil (and noise ) can be a massive benefit to youngsters and newcomers alike .the lumits of the cal make you pick your shots better and as such the hit rate can go up .i certainly find i often have more sucess with my .410 over my 20b s for exactly this reason . As you probably know I shoot 410 these days almost exclusively and have done for the last four seasons. I use my common sense and know the range I can cleanly kill a bird IF I do my job but I also see many pricked birds go behind the line when shot at by 12s and 20s etc. I choose to shoot full/full because I know there is a tidy killing pattern of 30 inches and then it is up to me to put it in the right place. On the majority of mixed shoots 35-40yrds is a very good bird. I have had a couple out at that range this season which I will remember the rest of my life. Two of those on the last day, when the picker up behind came forward and just said, "Works doesn't it" when I asked what, he said "410". I will always remember that day and those two birds. How many of these astronomical birds do these guns actually remember? As an aside, obviously shooting full and full giving a 30 inch pattern at 35yrds means that pattern is then much smaller closer to me, 15 inches at 17yrds and 22 inches at 24yrds, so yes a little bit of expertise is required particularly on traditonal over the hedges partridges, which in my view are far more exciting than being able to see the bird for a long time before needing to take action. Put a wind behind them and it is instictive shooting at it's best. Starting a youngster with one, then make sure the pattern is open and start him/her on 8s or 9s at easy going away clays. They must see those clays break to get them hooked. BUT be aware they might start to out shoot you. Edited February 9, 2020 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 To be fair i think when i start my boy. I will have him shoot the .410 at a plate so we can see when he naturally aims and hits .then move that to static clays or plastic bottles etc . Then move onto a few simple incoming clays .and then a few crossers . After that it will be in the hide and he can first take landed pigeons then incomers and finally slow crossers .limit him to the birds we know he can hit first and build from there .teach him to recognise the ranges and when to theoretically pull the trigger .i can do this with just a stick in the hide he can make the bang noise when he feels the bird is in range and hittable . No point i taking him to a massive clay ground and frustrating him with tricky shots . Ps i agree with all your coments above and would love to share a game day with you nev .with my wee .410 kids gun . My .410 is a 1/2 choke and obviously struggles pattern wise at 40 yds .but is perfect at the 15 -20 yd range and its wide enough . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 My comments re youngsters was not aimed at you as I know you would do it right anyway but it is tempting for some fathers to move them on too fast and the kid loses interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 My grandson fires single barrel .410. Cans of fizzy pop bottles of water etc at ranges of up to 15 yards, full choke, 2" 9gram 6s. (Its all I can get in 2") he loves it. My granddaughter at 13 fires .410 SxS at reasonably easy clays, loves it. My daughter has recently retaken up shooting again with a .410, 2 1/2" 14 gram 6s. Does very well on most clays. I bought some 3" 18gram 6s and was surprised how much fun and how far they actually smash clays. All at full choke. I would never underestimate what these terrific little guns can do. Once the budget allows I'll be looking for a nice forever gun for myself. If only the cartridges where more available here and at least as cheap as 12g I'm sure more people would use them. I'm planning on patterning one on the fancy paper targets as decor for my grandsons bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Shooting his neighbours birds over his head has never been a problem for him. Must be some prior agreement with the guns that he gets first pick at them. Or some such. I'd go bloody nuts if he did it to me. Your paying for your peg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbaikal Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) One question I will ask you all when was the last time you patterned your gun with your new batch of cartridges. We spend thousands on game days/guns but very few pattern the cartridges instead we believe what the shiny cartridge box says Edited February 10, 2020 by benbaikal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, benbaikal said: One question I will ask you all when was the last time you patterned your gun with your new batch of cartridges. We spend thousands on game days/guns but very few pattern the cartridges instead we believe what the shiny cartridge box says I patterned my 686 early last year with about a dozen different carts. Took a couple of days all in ( drew homemade pattern plates) but was well worth it. At 40 yards through half choke the pattern from superfast pigeon, 29g of no6 was brilliant. Used these till I had to stop shooting so the process will have to be repeated when I get my new auto but it's time well spent. I'm a firm believer in getting lead in the air and plenty of practice but knowing what your cartridge is doing 40 yards or whatever your chosen distance is out is just as important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 12:07, benbaikal said: One question I will ask you all when was the last time you patterned your gun with your new batch of cartridges. We spend thousands on game days/guns but very few pattern the cartridges instead we believe what the shiny cartridge box says More pattern testing should be done. However, I have never seen any pattern claims on cartridge boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 12:07, benbaikal said: One question I will ask you all when was the last time you patterned your gun with your new batch of cartridges. We spend thousands on game days/guns but very few pattern the cartridges instead we believe what the shiny cartridge box says Never bothered with clay cartridges, but have patterned most of what I shoot at live stuff .... from 8g homeloads to combinations for high pheasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbaikal Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 Best patterns I have got for pigeon decoying is from a romagalo 7 1/2 clay cartridge felt wad and clear pigeon 6 this was in my mk70 with half choke and this is what i use for pigeon/game clay cart for the first barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 14, 2020 Report Share Posted February 14, 2020 I enjoy patterning carts, some at 25-30 yards look great, yet at 45 yards are poor. Some of the so called too carts have thrown horrendous patterns, donut shapes and diagnal line patterns. Worth doing to see just what your getting. Most of my clay and game guns don't pattern well with full, 3/4 choke being tightest. .410 makes sense to reload your own, especially for clays. Nice 9 shot load for 2' and 21/2" carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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