Stop the use of lead on Wildfowl

[6.5x55SE]

Just a suggestion. I have to agree with other posters on the BASC thread. A lot of Ducks along with a few Geese are/have been shot with Lead on shoots something i have personally witnessed when the offending gun's and keeper was questioned there replies i cannot repeat on here. I also admit to the odd Wildfowler ( which i reported ) still using Lead 

So a possible way to try and stop those breaking the Law why not ( yes more rules taking control from us law abiding shooter's ) Make all shoots having to Tag Wildfowl so they become traseble hate to say it similar to USA or like i have to with Deer. Eg Mr Joe Blog's shot Wildfowl has lead shot they get fined and black listed ok so the individual for a start does not get caught BUT possibly now Shoots self police there gun's for type of shot as they are the ones for a start getting punished hopefully in time words spread and a high percentage tow the line. Just my opinion but any of us who shoot should police our sport. Being a mad keen Wildfowler yes 20+ yes ago i was heart broken no more Wildfowling with Lead did i give up Definitely not in the Voluntary year before the Ban i bought/tried every non toxic shot available did it stop me using my 20ga for Wildfowling NO it got me into reloading my own cartridges Do i miss lead No have my shooting ranges shortened NO . Fitness health permitting late September early October I'll be on some wet cold muddy foreshore trying to outwit Wildfowl armed with 20 or 12 ga you can rest assured it will be loaded with non toxic shot most probably Steel Shot. 

Am i happy with BASC or Cartridges Makers definitely NOT or those that stop us getting what the shooters in the likes of USA have available to them. I shoot good numbers of Deer with Non Toxic projectiles along with plenty of Geese and Duck

[Scully]

The only way to ensure birds bound for commercial sales are not shot with lead, whether ducks or otherwise, is for game dealers and supermarkets to refuse to buy them, which is exactly what it is claimed, is happening. 
There is nothing in place to prevent anyone from shooting ANY game with lead, which is for personal consumption. Some will stock up on lead and continue to use it even for game shooting ( if it’s just for their own personal use ) until it is no longer available. 
Any commercial shoots prevented from selling their shot birds will soon ensure non toxic only is used. 

[Terry2016]

6 minutes ago, Scully said:

The only way to ensure birds bound for commercial sales are not shot with lead, whether ducks or otherwise, is for game dealers and supermarkets to refuse to buy them, which is exactly what it is claimed, is happening. 
There is nothing in place to prevent anyone from shooting ANY game with lead, which is for personal consumption. Some will stock up on lead and continue to use it even for game shooting ( if it’s just for their own personal use ) until it is no longer available. 
Any commercial shoots prevented from selling their shot birds will soon ensure non toxic only is used. 

This exactly, well said.

[Westley]

Maybe if they had got it right in the first place (as in Scotland), it would NOT even be an issue  ?

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Just a suggestion. I have to agree with other posters on the BASC thread. A lot of Ducks along with a few Geese are/have been shot with Lead on shoots something i have personally witnessed when the offending gun's and keeper was questioned there replies i cannot repeat on here. I also admit to the odd Wildfowler ( which i reported ) still using Lead 

So a possible way to try and stop those breaking the Law why not ( yes more rules taking control from us law abiding shooter's ) Make all shoots having to Tag Wildfowl so they become traseble hate to say it similar to USA or like i have to with Deer. Eg Mr Joe Blog's shot Wildfowl has lead shot they get fined and black listed ok so the individual for a start does not get caught BUT possibly now Shoots self police there gun's for type of shot as they are the ones for a start getting punished hopefully in time words spread and a high percentage tow the line. Just my opinion but any of us who shoot should police our sport. Being a mad keen Wildfowler yes 20+ yes ago i was heart broken no more Wildfowling with Lead did i give up Definitely not in the Voluntary year before the Ban i bought/tried every non toxic shot available did it stop me using my 20ga for Wildfowling NO it got me into reloading my own cartridges Do i miss lead No have my shooting ranges shortened NO . Fitness health permitting late September early October I'll be on some wet cold muddy foreshore trying to outwit Wildfowl armed with 20 or 12 ga you can rest assured it will be loaded with non toxic shot most probably Steel Shot. 

Am i happy with BASC or Cartridges Makers definitely NOT or those that stop us getting what the shooters in the likes of USA have available to them. I shoot good numbers of Deer with Non Toxic projectiles along with plenty of Geese and Duck

I think its an excellent idea, and would stop  the law breakers in one stroke, and add the further incentive for shoots to obey legislation if they wanted to market their ducks.  Game dealers are getting clean lead free ducks and are not loosing any revenue from buying ducks they thought were lead free but were not. and last but not least we shooters are now going to be obeying the law. I think its a great idea, its just a shame some of us did not obey the law anyway in the first place then it would have not had to even consider debating this. 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Just a suggestion. I have to agree with other posters on the BASC thread. A lot of Ducks along with a few Geese are/have been shot with Lead on shoots something i have personally witnessed when the offending gun's and keeper was questioned there replies i cannot repeat on here. I also admit to the odd Wildfowler ( which i reported ) still using Lead 

So a possible way to try and stop those breaking the Law why not ( yes more rules taking control from us law abiding shooter's ) Make all shoots having to Tag Wildfowl so they become traseble hate to say it similar to USA or like i have to with Deer. Eg Mr Joe Blog's shot Wildfowl has lead shot they get fined and black listed ok so the individual for a start does not get caught BUT possibly now Shoots self police there gun's for type of shot as they are the ones for a start getting punished hopefully in time words spread and a high percentage tow the line. Just my opinion but any of us who shoot should police our sport. Being a mad keen Wildfowler yes 20+ yes ago i was heart broken no more Wildfowling with Lead did i give up Definitely not in the Voluntary year before the Ban i bought/tried every non toxic shot available did it stop me using my 20ga for Wildfowling NO it got me into reloading my own cartridges Do i miss lead No have my shooting ranges shortened NO . Fitness health permitting late September early October I'll be on some wet cold muddy foreshore trying to outwit Wildfowl armed with 20 or 12 ga you can rest assured it will be loaded with non toxic shot most probably Steel Shot. 

Am i happy with BASC or Cartridges Makers definitely NOT or those that stop us getting what the shooters in the likes of USA have available to them. I shoot good numbers of Deer with Non Toxic projectiles along with plenty of Geese and Duck

What a waste of time. 
 

How many commercial Wildfowlers are there? You can’t even sell geese. 
 

Most Wildfowlers are shooting for the pot not for commercial sales. 

And anyway, you can shoot a pheasant flying past with lead and that’s fine, but a duck flies the same course just moments behind it and it’s supposedly not ok to shoot it with the same cartridge? How does that save the environment? 
 

Scotland had it better, shooting inland and you can use lead ... I don’t think using lead even causing problems on wetland. 

[lancer425]

16 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

What a waste of time. 
 

How many commercial Wildfowlers are there? You can’t even sell geese. 
 

Most Wildfowlers are shooting for the pot not for commercial sales. 

And anyway, you can shoot a pheasant flying past with lead and that’s fine, but a duck flies the same course just moments behind it and it’s supposedly not ok to shoot it with the same cartridge? How does that save the environment? 
 

Scotland had it better, shooting inland and you can use lead ... I don’t think using lead even causing problems on wetland. 

This is about keeping Lead out of ducks off commercial shoots, nothing to do with wildfowlers whatsoever. .

[Lloyd90]

16 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

This is about keeping Lead out of ducks off commercial shoots, nothing to do with wildfowlers whatsoever. .

It’s still a nonsense. 
 

As already suggested sensibly by Scully, the only way to manage it is for game dealers to not buy ones that aren’t shot with non-toxic, which is already happening. 
 

So we are suggesting adding a load of work and tagging and other nonsense for absolutely no benefit. 
 

Why are shooters going out of there way to think up ways to make shooting more effort, more bother and more hassle than it already is? 
 

This “self policing” nonsense is a joke. Antis must be laughing their heads off. One of the only sports I’ve seen where the members constantly come up with ideas to chip away at their own rights. 

[lancer425]

5 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Why are shooters going out of there way to think up ways to make shooting more effort, more bother and more hassle than it already is? 
 

This “self policing” nonsense is a joke. Antis must be laughing their heads off. One of the only sports I’ve seen where the members constantly come up with ideas to chip away at their own rights. 

Because some of us are not obeying the law, at least this way it wont happen in the way it has before. And wont bring us into disrepute as a bunch of law breakers. IF EVERY ONE of us obeyed the law we would not even be thinking or even talking about this.

[8 shot]

17 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

This is about keeping Lead out of ducks off commercial shoots, nothing to do with wildfowlers whatsoever. .

I gave up shooting ducks 20+ years ago most commercial shoot ducks don’t fly anyway, a tennis racquet would be more appropriate than a gun. Is there much of a market for wild duck anyway. Plenty of duck and goose farm to supply an unlimited quantity all year round with a safe traceable product. Do we really need to shoot wildfowl Inland anyway. As said before Game Dealers aren’t completely innocent in all this, most state they wouldn’t take game, wildfowl, venison ,rabbit or pigeon without the meat hygiene hunter number but they do. They really do need to have an input in all this as, as I’ve said before they will be under huge pressure now to market all this lead free game at sensible prices to all concerned or the “Only shoot for fun” nonsense will be the next thing again 

[lancer425]

10 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I gave up shooting ducks 20+ years ago most commercial shoot ducks don’t fly anyway, a tennis racquet would be more appropriate than a gun. Is there much of a market for wild duck anyway. Plenty of duck and goose farm to supply an unlimited quantity all year round with a safe traceable product. Do we really need to shoot wildfowl Inland anyway. As said before Game Dealers aren’t completely innocent in all this, most state they wouldn’t take game, wildfowl, venison ,rabbit or pigeon without the meat hygiene hunter number but they do. They really do need to have an input in all this as, as I’ve said before they will be under huge pressure now to market all this lead free game at sensible prices to all concerned or the “Only shoot for fun” nonsense will be the next thing again 

Well  the other day nobody wanted pheasants but waitrose do now ,despite this "HUGE PRESSURE TO MARKET LEAD FREE GAME " and nobody buys wild duck "whatever that is" but somebody was buying them when they were found full of lead several years on the trot.  And what happens to these Ducks and all the others like them. And they are perhaps not as advertised regarding the range but go on get  your tennis racquet.

 

[8 shot]

19 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Well  the other day nobody wanted pheasants but waitrose do now ,despite this "HUGE PRESSURE TO MARKET LEAD FREE GAME " and nobody buys wild duck "whatever that is" but somebody was buying them when they were found full of lead several years on the trot.  And what happens to these Ducks and all the others like them. And they are perhaps not as advertised regarding the range but go on get  your tennis racquet.

 

“Wild Duck” I would describe as not reared, as above plonked on a pond or lake and hardly ever leave the pond until shot at and then just go round and round until shot or have run out of energy. Truly wild duck come and go there one not the next. I could tell you a story about a group of lads who tried to supply game products to a food chain in two adjoining county’s almost bankrupt in three years complete waste of time when the market changed dropped them like stone 

Edited March 8, 2020 by 8 shot

[lancer425]

4 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

“Wild Duck” I would describe as not reared, as above plonked on a pond or lake and hardly ever leave the pond until shot at and then just go round and round until shot or have run out of energy. Truly wild duck come and go there one not the next. I could tell you a story about a group of lads who tried to supply game products to a food chain in two adjoining county’s almost bankrupt in three years complete waste of time when the market changed dropped them like stone 

I could not bring myself shoot them i like  ducks, and they were flying around not understanding why they can not get to go home. Not for me i am afraid but its preferable to a yard full of ducks round em up and ring their necks i suppose. Perhaps.?

[8 shot]

2 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I could not bring myself shoot them i like  ducks, and they were flying around not understanding why they can not get to go home. Not for me i am afraid but its preferable to a yard full of ducks round em up and ring their necks i suppose. Perhaps.?

Agreed entirely, but the general public don’t hear or see this, the marketing department will never show you where your crispy duck come from, but shooting is open for everyone to see you can’t hide it, it’s has huge press really good and bad all on the net, magazines by the dozen, we do it the wrong way round, we show the “Bad bit”, they show the quality end product we all enjoy. 

[lancer425]

5 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Agreed entirely, but the general public don’t hear or see this, the marketing department will never show you where your crispy duck come from, but shooting is open for everyone to see you can’t hide it, it’s has huge press really good and bad all on the net, magazines by the dozen, we do it the wrong way round, we show the “Bad bit”, they show the quality end product we all enjoy. 

Cant remember who sang it not my thing i was progressive rock and heavy metal . but a song 70s or 80s reminds me of shootings problems "communication let me down"   We are just not conecting , we do not sell our selves very well, and i do not think we can just ignore this, or not change/ evolve.  I dont have an answer but doing nothing scares me more than changing i must admit.

 

[captainhastings]

Our local shoot has a good market for his ducks with the game dealer and he insists on steel. Job done. Let the rest of folks crack on we have more than enough rules all ready don't need any more

[Lloyd90]

7 hours ago, lancer425 said:

I could not bring myself shoot them i like  ducks, and they were flying around not understanding why they can not get to go home. Not for me i am afraid but its preferable to a yard full of ducks round em up and ring their necks i suppose. Perhaps.?

I think the general public would rather have farm reared ducks than ducks that can barely fly slapped onto a pond, just “driven” by being chased by some dogs and shot whilst doing a circle around the only pond they have ever known. 
 

Shooting wild ducks over flight ponds or Wildfowling is the way to preserve duck hunting. 

23 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Our local shoot has a good market for his ducks with the game dealer and he insists on steel. Job done. Let the rest of folks crack on we have more than enough rules all ready don't need any more

That’s all is needed. Tell the guns “your either using steel on the duck drives or your putting your gun back in the slip” and they’ll soon use them. 

[Pushandpull]

A ban on the sale of dead wild ducks, snipe, golden plover and woodcock might cure a lot of problems and keep the quarry list long, but it would not be popular with the commercial end of shooting - the "industry".

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Pushandpull said:

A ban on the sale of dead wild ducks, snipe, golden plover and woodcock might cure a lot of problems and keep the quarry list long, but it would not be popular with the commercial end of shooting - the "industry".

I agree with that .

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Pushandpull said:

A ban on the sale of dead wild ducks, snipe, golden plover and woodcock might cure a lot of problems and keep the quarry list long, but it would not be popular with the commercial end of shooting - the "industry".

A ban might also beg the question of ‘if you’re not selling them’ then why shoot them? 

[lancer425]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

A ban might also beg the question of ‘if you’re not selling them’ then why shoot them? 

To eat them, its a very basic very natural thing to do and why i shoot entirely.

[8 shot]

9 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

To eat them, its a very basic very natural thing to do and why i shoot entirely.

I probably eat more game than I shoot I have between 5 to 10, (with a maximum of 100 birds per day) pheasant days a season taking as many brace a possible, I think only two or three of the shoots actually sell the game. Most of my shooting is pest control and some stalking. 

[lancer425]

Just now, 8 shot said:

I probably eat more game than I shoot I have between 5 to 10, (with a maximum of 100 birds per day) pheasant days a season taking as many brace a possible, I think only two or three of the shoots actually sell the game. Most of my shooting is pest control and some stalking. 

Exactly i waste nothing Too many to feed around here as it is.

[8 shot]

23 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Exactly i waste nothing Too many to feed around here as it is.

Only three here 😉Missus is a bloody good cook which makes life very easy, even my 13 year old daughter eats game and lots of it, coincidentally I've asked my wife how much shot she thinks she found. Answer hardly any, only really in the legs.

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, 8 shot said:

Only three here 😉Missus is a bloody good cook which makes life very easy, even my 13 year old daughter eats game and lots of it, coincidentally I've asked my wife how much shot she thinks she found. Answer hardly any, only really in the legs.

Yes my wife cooks , we do eat well. And i do think the kids have all appreciated it, they do not like **** food where as any of their mates come, they wont eat what we have.   You are what you neat as they say.

  Not finding shot. A point here you might be interested in if you did not know. I am of the opinion, that steel and other hard shot types exit as in go straight through creatures very well indeed. Ok i use big shot on geese even ducks. but in say 4s on rabbits, get pass throughs. i dare stick my neck out here and now and say i feel these harder shot types go through more than lead did.