BASC end concessions.

[andrewluke]

1 hour ago, David BASC said:

BASC do not have lower class members, we do our best to treat all member the same, with the same insurance package, same member benefits and same member offers. How this can be interpreted as 'sweet FA' is beyond me, but I am sure you have your own personal agenda / axe to grind Andrew judging by your posts.

Which is a great shame realy, as in this time hwen shooting is probably under more pressure from outside groups we realy should be sticking together and members engaging with their chosen organisation rather than throwing brickbats at the organsations

of course i have a personal agenda/axe to grind,it was myself who asked for help when i needed it on more than one occassion but it was not forthcoming,it's what i thought i paid BASC for,would you be happy throwing money away???

i'm not "throwing brickbats at all organsations" just BASC who i pay my subscription too

Edited March 17, 2020 by andrewluke

[rbrowning2]

I think my mind is made up, David basc you always side step the questions and never give a meaningful reply.

i ask again when prior to the lead and plastic wad ban did basc ( or any of the other organisations) consult with the uk cartridge manufactures and consult with the basc trade members.

if you do not answer this I will cancel my dd, money is going to be very tight now with the Coronavirus so I need to make every penny count.

 

[David BASC]

rbrowning2, I can only refer you to what is on the web site, that is pretty much all I am allowed to do, its not side stepping the issue. But if you want to discuss this further , pm me or e-mail me your contact details and I will pass them to the relevant Executive Director at BASC

Andrew, I am sorry you feel that way , but please don't say BASC has lower class members. It is simply not the case.

[8 shot]

I’ve already emailed a council member for an explanation, must be nearly a week ago. Still nothing, I guess I wasn’t really expecting a reply, . rbrowning2 please post the reply. If you get one. This is why the membership feels unappreciated. 

38 minutes ago, David BASC said:

rbrowning2, I can only refer you to what is on the web site, that is pretty much all I am allowed to do, its not side stepping the issue. But if you want to discuss this further , pm me or e-mail me your contact details and I will pass them to the relevant Executive Director at BASC

 

[David BASC]

Please get in touch, the offer is on the table

David

[rbrowning2]

11 hours ago, David BASC said:

Please get in touch, the offer is on the table

David

David, I emailed Conor on the 8th  March 2020 at 19:11hrs he replied 9th March at 1:53hrs and I again emailed him on the 9th March.

still waiting for a reply to that email, again like you he avoids actually answering the important (embarrassing?) questions, will you if I do contact you directly?

I remind you that GDPR rules apply.

[David BASC]

I don't think Conor is avoiding anything , I know him very well, but the fact remains that:

The cartridge manufacturers were consulted before the publication by the shooting organisations of their initial joint statement on the proposed five-year transition to sustainable, non-lead ammunition.

Representatives of shooting organisations were in contact with cartridge manufacturers at meetings where that proposed joint statement by the shooting organisations was discussed. A copy of that statement was given to cartridge companies in advance and they had the opportunity to comment.

A senior representative of one of the cartridge manufacturers gave a presentation on the sustainable alternatives to lead shot in January 2020 to members of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Shooting and Conservation.

Consider this together with the fact that the cartridge makers in the UK have been producing non lead shot and non plastic wads in increasing numbers over the years and working hard on improving powder technology for steel.

They and the shooting organisations are very aware of what ECHA has delivered and been further instructed to by the  European Commission on the phasing out or banning of lead shot and separate to this the issue of single use plastics.

If shooting is going to continue for future organisations, it must be seen to be sustainable, to ignore this is wrong, regardless of anyone's personal feelings, we must look at the bigger picture.

I am very aware of GDPR and can only use your data for specific purposes with your consent, but if you email me I will pass your email to the relevant Exec Director for reply as I have already said, not sure what other part of GDPR you think is an issue here or why you need to remind me of it?

 

[andrewluke]

2 hours ago, David BASC said:

I don't think Conor is avoiding anything , I know him very well, but the fact remains that:

The cartridge manufacturers were consulted before the publication by the shooting organisations of their initial joint statement on the proposed five-year transition to sustainable, non-lead ammunition.

Representatives of shooting organisations were in contact with cartridge manufacturers at meetings where that proposed joint statement by the shooting organisations was discussed. A copy of that statement was given to cartridge companies in advance and they had the opportunity to comment.

A senior representative of one of the cartridge manufacturers gave a presentation on the sustainable alternatives to lead shot in January 2020 to members of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Shooting and Conservation.

Consider this together with the fact that the cartridge makers in the UK have been producing non lead shot and non plastic wads in increasing numbers over the years and working hard on improving powder technology for steel.

They and the shooting organisations are very aware of what ECHA has delivered and been further instructed to by the  European Commission on the phasing out or banning of lead shot and separate to this the issue of single use plastics.

If shooting is going to continue for future organisations, it must be seen to be sustainable, to ignore this is wrong, regardless of anyone's personal feelings, we must look at the bigger picture.

I am very aware of GDPR and can only use your data for specific purposes with your consent, but if you email me I will pass your email to the relevant Exec Director for reply as I have already said, not sure what other part of GDPR you think is an issue here or why you need to remind me of it?

 

so you say that cartridge manufacturers are 100% lying when they said that they weren't consulted,is that correct David?

there isn't an easier question as the answer is either "yes" or "no"

Edited March 18, 2020 by andrewluke

[David BASC]

All I can say is what I have said, as has been published on the BASC web site fir many days now.  If others are saying differently then I suggest you ask them why.

However, your continued attempt to stir this up and ignoring the background and the bigger picture is not helping or benefiting anyone is it? The way forward is to work together , so I hope you and others will understand and accept this. 

[andrewluke]

43 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

so you say that cartridge manufacturers are 100% lying when they said that they weren't consulted,is that correct David?

there isn't an easier question as the answer is either "yes" or "no"

 

3 minutes ago, David BASC said:

All I can say is what I have said, as has been published on the BASC web site fir many days now.  If others are saying differently then I suggest you ask them why.

However, your continued attempt to stir this up and ignoring the background and the bigger picture is not helping or benefiting anyone is it? The way forward is to work together , so I hope you and others will understand and accept this. 

there isn't an easier question as the answer is either "yes" or "no"

by the way i'm still a basc member until end of march

Edited March 18, 2020 by andrewluke

[stagboy]

It's pathetic that four cartridge manufacturers are whining that thy weren't consulted and they can't make the necessary changes without being fed wads of moolah... Go and look up their accounts at Companies House. What sort of business model can't cope with a change over five years, having had about 20 years' notice? Two of the companies already have biodegradable wadded steel loads in commercial production - Gambore's directors actually boast in their intro to last year'  accounts field at Companies House about how ahead of the game they are in tackling this utterly foreseeable risk. There are plenty of other companies willing to step in. As for the price of cartridges, they are vastly cheaper now than they were 40 or 50 years ago. They cost me a mere pittance of my total expense in shooting.

And as for those moaning minnies who keep saying they are going to leave BASC - well go on, leave, and find another org to moan about (or, wait, they've all taken the same decision...  ) Whatever, just go away and stop boring the rest of us on forums like  this. I

As  a longstanding member of both the NGO and  BASC member, don't see why my membership funds should be diverted to respond to online fanatics who will never, ever listen to the facts and are utterly unrepresentative of the shooting community at large. Our orgs should be devoting all their efforts to fighting the real threats, rather than being diverted into answering repeated questions from a few silly old buffers from our own side.

Edited March 18, 2020 by stagboy
typo

[andrewluke]

1 minute ago, stagboy said:

It's pathetic that four cartridge manufacturers are whining that thy weren't consulted and they can't make the necessary changes without being fed wads of moolah... Go and look up their accounts at Companies House. What sort of business model can't cope with a change over five years, having had about 20 years' notice? Two of the companies already have biodegradable wadded steel loads in commercial production - Gambore's directors actually boast in their into to last year'  accounts field at Companies House about how ahead of the game they are in tackling this utterly foreseeable risk. There are plenty of other companies willing to step in. As for the price of cartridges, they are vastly cheaper now than they were 40 or 50 years ago. They cost me a mere pittance of my total expense in shooting.

And as for those moaning minnies who keep saying they are going to leave BASC - well go on, leave, and find another org to moan about (or, wait, they've all taken the same decision...  ) Whatever, just go away and stop boing the rest of us on forums like  this. I

As  a longstanding member of both the NGO and  BASC member, don't see why my membership funds should be diverted to respond to online fanatics who will never, ever listen to the facts and are utterly unrepresentative of the shooting community at large. Our orgs should be devoting all their efforts to fighting the real threats, rather than being diverted into answering repeated questions from a few silly old buffers from our own side.

how do you know they were consulted,i cant get a straight "yes" or "no" from DavidBASC to whether they were consulted or not

[Penelope]

21 hours ago, David BASC said:

BASC do not have lower class members, we do our best to treat all member the same, with the same insurance package, same member benefits and same member offers. How this can be interpreted as 'sweet FA' is beyond me, but I am sure you have your own personal agenda / axe to grind Andrew judging by your posts.

Which is a great shame realy, as in this time hwen shooting is probably under more pressure from outside groups we realy should be sticking together and members engaging with their chosen organisation rather than throwing brickbats at the organsations

BASC smacked us round the head with one when we weren't looking.

[David BASC]

Not at all,

Have you not noticed all the issues surrounding lead shot over the last 30 years, ECHA, REACH etc , or has it simply slipped by you? Maybe some are not a member but have you all not seen all the coverage on non lead shot that BASC and others have been publishing? Have you completely missed the point that its not just BASC that are onto this issue but all the main shooting and land management organisations?

It seems that  a few others on here do not agree with BASC, CA, GWCT and all the others and their combined knowledge and expertise, and also seem to have been completely ignorant of the changing issues facing lead shot over the last 30 years.

Well yes we could all have sat back and done nothing, ignoring the threat of international legislation waited for a blanket ban at short notice, or option B (the preferred option) is to take the bull by the horns and show that shooting can self regulate.

Of course this has nothing to do with concessions does it but as per usual some take any thread then mentions BASC and de-rails it away from the OP...there is already a thread on lead - use that 

[JJsDad]

7 hours ago, stagboy said:

And as for those moaning minnies who keep saying they are going to leave BASC - well go on, leave, and find another org to moan about (or, wait, they've all taken the same decision...  ) Whatever, just go away and stop boring the rest of us on forums like  this. I

As  a longstanding member of both the NGO and  BASC member, don't see why my membership funds should be diverted to respond to online fanatics who will never, ever listen to the facts and are utterly unrepresentative of the shooting community at large. Our orgs should be devoting all their efforts to fighting the real threats, rather than being diverted into answering repeated questions from a few silly old buffers from our own side.

If you trawl back through their comments, the two most vocal BASC bashers claim to have left BASC. However, due to some perceived slight in the past, over help they were seeking from BASC, where they didnt get the answer they hoped for, we now have to put up with this persistant drip of negativity on every post where BASC gets mentioned. If they had got a genuine gripe I would have thought that they could have formally complained to BASC. David BASC I believe offered to look into one of the moans, but got a load of twaddle about BASC all being liars, so understandably he left it alone.

If they are hoping to drive David BASC away from the forum, where he does a lot of good trying to answer members questions, I would hope that the moderators bin the pair of them. They add absolutely nothing of interest to the forum.

Edited March 18, 2020 by JJsDad

[clangerman]

29 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

If you trawl back through their comments, the two most vocal BASC bashers claim to have left BASC. However, due to some perceived slight in the past, over help they were seeking from BASC, where they didnt get the answer they hoped for, we now have to put up with this persistant drip of negativity on every post where BASC gets mentioned. If they had got a genuine gripe I would have thought that they could have formally complained to BASC. David BASC I believe offered to look into one of the moans, but got a load of twaddle about BASC all being liars, so understandably he left it alone.

If they are hoping to drive David BASC away from the forum, where he does a lot of good trying to answer members questions, I would hope that the moderators bin the pair of them. They add absolutely nothing of interest to the forum.

if you are referring to myself most of the personal insults come MY way even to the point of being verbally abused by one person the statements from basc leave no doubt in my mind who is telling the truth david is as entitled to his view as anyone else and is welcome to give it should the mods have any issue with my own comments or views i will amend them immediately they tell me to as members can judge for their self if I make a contribution to the forum i consider it bad form to call for anyone to be banned and leave such decisions to those in charge 

[enfieldspares]

It is the same logic of the asylum as ending reduced price television licences for blind persons because "there aren't many" or stopping pensions for War Widows "because there aren't many". Yes they may not be many but that does not mean that a concession or benefit is not needed. It simply means that happily the cohort of people that need it is few in number. That's all it means.

[JJsDad]

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if you are referring to myself

Did I mention you ?

If you have been verbally abused perhaps you should ask yourself the question why ! Your constant abuse of BASC and willingness to call people liars just may have something to do with it.

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Did I mention you ?

If you have been verbally abused perhaps you should ask yourself the question why ! Your constant abuse of BASC and willingness to call people liars just may have something to do with it.

i did not say you named myself and basc are welcome to challenge me calling for someone to be banned is extremely bad form as shooters we expect to get stabbed in the back by antis not our own side 

[rapid .25]

15 hours ago, David BASC said:

Not at all,

Have you not noticed all the issues surrounding lead shot over the last 30 years, ECHA, REACH etc , or has it simply slipped by you? Maybe some are not a member but have you all not seen all the coverage on non lead shot that BASC and others have been publishing? Have you completely missed the point that its not just BASC that are onto this issue but all the main shooting and land management organisations?

It seems that  a few others on here do not agree with BASC, CA, GWCT and all the others and their combined knowledge and expertise, and also seem to have been completely ignorant of the changing issues facing lead shot over the last 30 years.

Well yes we could all have sat back and done nothing, ignoring the threat of international legislation waited for a blanket ban at short notice, or option B (the preferred option) is to take the bull by the horns and show that shooting can self regulate.

Of course this has nothing to do with concessions does it but as per usual some take any thread then mentions BASC and de-rails it away from the OP...there is already a thread on lead - use that 

I've been trying to put that point over from the beginning, this thread was opened by me regarding the cancellation of the concessions, PLEASE use it for that purpose not your own agenda's, it's unbelievably easy to open a thread of your own on any matter you wish to take up, "" try it"".

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

It is the same logic of the asylum as ending reduced price television licences for blind persons because "there aren't many" or stopping pensions for War Widows "because there aren't many". Yes they may not be many but that does not mean that a concession or benefit is not needed. It simply means that happily the cohort of people that need it is few in number. That's all it means.

AT LAST!!!!!!!!  something that actually refers to concessions, now THIS is what this thread was opened for, """ YIPPEEEEEEEEE"".

[southeastpete]

18 hours ago, andrewluke said:

how do you know they were consulted,i cant get a straight "yes" or "no" from DavidBASC to whether they were consulted or not

Literally 5 posts above you he states it clearly and 4 posts above he’s quoted.

yawn

 

[David BASC]

rapid25

I appreciate your comments and I will, of course pass them on. The elected Council and the Executive & Finance Committee regularly review membership prices and discounts, with the objective of them being as fair and reasonable to as many as possible. We also have the facility to spread the payment over 10 months of course.

Sincerely

David

[andrewluke]

2 hours ago, southeastpete said:

Literally 5 posts above you he states it clearly and 4 posts above he’s quoted.

yawn

 

so why wont DavidBASC give a straight answer to my question,i dont give a toss whether you want to yawn or not,that's up to you,i would like a straight answer as i am a member of BASC up until the end of the month

[David BASC]

Stop high jacking threads andrewwluke,  if you want to comment on concessions and membership prices that's fine but for goodness sake use the lead thread to discuss lead uses.

[shaun4860]

Can we please keep things on topic.

This is a withdrawal of concessions thread.

If you wish to discuss the lead ban then please do that on the appropriate thread.

cheers