How much are we being told lies about!!

[12gauge82]

Just now, ClemFandango said:

So do you think it is realistic to expect that we could take the wealth they have amassed for redistribution? They have already taken it offshore? 

Again spot on, to do it would take a world United effort, or at least western world anyway, which I know is unlikely, but then much of the western masses are angry and I think if most knew what was going on, the anger would bubble over.

1 minute ago, AVB said:

Who are these people? 

"UK increasingly reliant on super rich for tax income" say the Institute of Fiscal Studies - https://www.icaew.com/technical/tax/personal-tax/income-tax/income-tax-articles/uk-increasingly-reliant-on-super-rich-for-tax-income

Top UK Tax payers (personal not Corporation Tax) 

1. Stephen Rubin and family, £181.6m. Majority stakeholder in JD Sports and owner of Pentland Group.

2. Denise, John and Peter Coates, £156m. Owners of gambling company Bet365. 

3. Sir James Dyson and family, £127.8m. Vacuum cleaner and household appliance company.

4. Bruno Schroder and family, £114.3m. Investment management company.

5. Sir Jim Ratcliffe, £110.5m. Owner of Ineos chemicals company - No 1 on Sunday Times Rich List 2018.

6. The Weston family, £76m. Owners of brands including Selfridges, Primark, Ryvita, Silver Spoon, Ovaltine and Twinings - No 9 on Sunday Times Rich List 2018.

7. Sir Chris Hohn, £64.8m. Manager of TCI hedge fund.

8. Sir Peter Wood, £53.7m. Founder of esure insurance company.

9. James Benamor, £52.2m. Owner of Amigo Loans and Richmond Group moneylenders.

10. Baroness Howard de Walden and family, £44.1m. Property investors.

Have a watch on the documentary of the Panama papers, but then I think we both know what I'm talking about?

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

Bang on the money and it's what would happen if one government alone tried to tackle it, hence why governments aren't in control anymore.

🙈😂 No, not like nursing

Nursing is working for the government who's sole purpose isn't to make money, it is providing a service

I chose my words carefully and chose not to mention NHS - keep up 😛 

[12gauge82]

Just now, Raja Clavata said:

I chose my words carefully and chose not to mention NHS - keep up 😛 

Very clever 👌

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

Again spot on, to do it would take a world United effort, or at least western world anyway, which I know is unlikely, but then much of the western masses are angry and I think if most knew what was going on, the anger would bubble over.

Sounds like just the sort of thing we could drive by being part of a trading bloc, lol

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sounds like just the sort of thing we could drive by being part of a trading bloc, lol

It's the one part I was torn with regarding EU membership, but they've made it very clear which side they are on, which is a shame, it could have been a huge force for good with that issue.

[Old farrier]

13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's part of the systems failure, jobs set up which turn people into robots, large companies rely on pre trained migrant labour, so they don't need to pay to offer apprenticeships and decent jobs, with livable wages.

But of course a tree surgeon is part of the working class

A tad sarcastic and if that’s what you believe so be it 

however when you look at the big picture and see none essential workers being paid to sit at home and essentially ones working like navvies for no extra where is the parity in that 

the European workers are doing the same thing as we did years ago travel to earn more than at home with the skills they have 

yes the corporation employs them and they will earn and go back or stay hopefully aspiring to be a corporation themselves 

do you mind if I ask you occupation? And where you see yourself on the scale? 
personally thinking tree surgeons are skilled so a bit higher up than working class 

[AVB]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 

Have a watch on the documentary of the Panama papers, but then I think we both know what I'm talking about?

Watch it? I featured in it. 

1) Don't believe all you read published by the ICIJ and the Guardian. A lot of their data is fantastically out of date and fabricated. They ran an article on one of my previous employers featuring data they stole back in 2007 and joined up lose strands of information to imply tax evasion that was nothing of the sorts.   

2) Some people take the ****. The majority don't  

[12gauge82]

Just now, AVB said:

Watch it? I featured in it. 

1) Don't believe all you read published by the ICIJ and the Guardian. A lot of their data is fantastically out of date and fabricated. They ran an article on one of my previous employers featuring data they stole back in 2007 and joined up lose strands of information to imply tax evasion that was nothing of the sorts.   

2) Some people take the ****. The majority don't  

I had a little feeling you'd know what I was talking about and we both know what I'm talking about and it's the ones taking the **** that need addressing, I have no problems with capitalism or working and making a profit

[AVB]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

I had a little feeling you'd know what I was talking about and we both know what I'm talking about and it's the ones taking the **** that need addressing, I have no problems with capitalism or working and making a profit

The major beneficiaries of the offshore schemes featured in the Panama papers were Heads of States and public officials of many, mainly third and second world, countries, Not UK corporations.  

[12gauge82]

24 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

A tad sarcastic and if that’s what you believe so be it 

however when you look at the big picture and see none essential workers being paid to sit at home and essentially ones working like navvies for no extra where is the parity in that 

the European workers are doing the same thing as we did years ago travel to earn more than at home with the skills they have 

yes the corporation employs them and they will earn and go back or stay hopefully aspiring to be a corporation themselves 

do you mind if I ask you occupation? And where you see yourself on the scale? 
personally thinking tree surgeons are skilled so a bit higher up than working class 

Didn't mean to come across sarcastic, apologies if it did. There's very little that has parity with what's going on.

I would prefer to keep my occupation private, but I consider myself very privileged, I've got no grumbles with what I earn.

13 minutes ago, AVB said:

The major beneficiaries of the offshore schemes featured in the Panama papers were Heads of States and public officials of many, mainly third and second world, countries, Not UK corporations.  

There were many 1st world beneficiaries to, the most famous showed links with the likes of David Cameron, 1924 UK based companies involved, I wonder how many millions/billions of unpaid tax that came to. Don't forget it was only one country with mossack fonseca which was exposed, what it showed was the wider picture of what is happening around the world and how much money is basically being stolen from the people of all countries.

Edited April 13, 2020 by 12gauge82

[AVB]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

There were many 1st world beneficiaries to, the most famous showed links with the likes of David Cameron. Don't forget it was only one country with mossack fonseca which was exposed, what it showed was the wider picture of what is happening around the world and how much money is basically being stolen from the people of all countries.

I don't disagree that a lot of it is being stolen from the citizens of a lot of countries, especially African, South American and Eastern European but do disagree that this involves anything other than a few UK Corporations or citizens. 

I was involved in Offshore trust funds for a few years and the vast majority of people taking advantage of them were Middle Eastern (basically trying to protect their oil money from a future coup) or Eastern European gangsters, drug barons and arms dealers/brokers The Anti Money Laundering, Know Your Client and Reputation Risk reviews associated with them were an eye opener to say the least. Is it a problem? Yes. Is it a UK problem? No.    

[12gauge82]

25 minutes ago, AVB said:

I don't disagree that a lot of it is being stolen from the citizens of a lot of countries, especially African, South American and Eastern European but do disagree that this involves anything other than a few UK Corporations or citizens. 

I was involved in Offshore trust funds for a few years and the vast majority of people taking advantage of them were Middle Eastern (basically trying to protect their oil money from a future coup) or Eastern European gangsters, drug barons and arms dealers/brokers The Anti Money Laundering, Know Your Client and Reputation Risk reviews associated with them were an eye opener to say the least. Is it a problem? Yes. Is it a UK problem? No.    

I've edited my post above with the number of UK companies, bear in mind, it was only one hedge fund company exposed

[Surfer]

5 hours ago, henry d said:

No, a virus is causing this, just like all the other viruses that have jumped from one animal species to another.

Really not convinced at what they say ,like I said a bat 🦇 causing all this , the only proof is what they tell you, 

In my eyes that’s not proof, There are such things as secrets , and lies cover them up ask any honest politician 

[Dave-G]

It'd be very interesting to see some of the things that are kept secret for thirty years - can't recall what the procedure is called.

[Surfer]

Indeed it would 

Indeed it would 30 45 100 years disclosure 

[henry d]

53 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Really not convinced at what they say ,like I said a bat 🦇 causing all this , the only proof is what they tell you, 

In my eyes that’s not proof, There are such things as secrets , and lies cover them up ask any honest politician 

Ah, a conspiracy...

So what proof do you need then? Elvis and the Pope staging a coup against Jay Z and the order of nine angles to get control over their human footsoldiers so they concocted a sneaky virus, but wait! Donald J Trump knows how sneaky it is and will save the world...

[AVB]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I've edited my post above with the number of UK companies, bear in mind, it was only one hedge fund company exposed

Without wanting to derail a thread that started about Covid-19 and ended up on the issue of the ‘Panama papers’ but to correct a couple of your points

1) Mossack Fonseca is a law firm that aided in the creation of entities in Panama not a hedge fund

2) Your quote of 1,924 U.K. companies being involved is misleading.  The correct statement should have been 1,924 entities. Many of these were Special Purpose Vehicles or funds set up by one company. 

I will reiterate having an entity or investment offshore is not illegal and their are many purposes for doing so. Where MF were lacking was in the due diligence of the entities that they were creating. If you have any investments in Funds, via your pension for example, take a close look at where they are domiciled as you may find that they are, God forbid, offshore. 

You are clearly passionate about wealth redistribution which we are clearly not going to see eye to eye on, but focusing on the world of ‘offshore finance’ isn’t the solution and, from the U.K. perspective, the usage of offshore entities for ‘shady’ purposes is minimal.  

If you want to continue to debate then happy to do so via PM for fear of boring the majority of PWers. 

[Surfer]

45 minutes ago, henry d said:

Ah, a conspiracy...

So what proof do you need then? Elvis and the Pope staging a coup against Jay Z and the order of nine angles to get control over their human footsoldiers so they concocted a sneaky virus, but wait! Donald J Trump knows how sneaky it is and will save the world...

So do I believe all that I am told that a bat caused it ?

i have also seen interviews that say it was man made , now I’ve told you that do you believe me ?

What proof have you seen yourself?

[oldypigeonpopper]

10 minutes ago, Surfer said:

So do I believe all that I am told that a bat caused it ?

i have also seen interviews that say it was man made , now I’ve told you that do you believe me ?

What proof have you seen yourself?

hello, i think that is highly unlikely with the Bat, they have been eating them for years, more like the Government Laboratory in Wuhan

[Old farrier]

13 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i think that is highly unlikely with the Bat, they have been eating them for years, more like the Government Laboratory in Wuhan

It’s all down to interpretation Of the language 

bat 

cat 

rat 

all pretty similar And all probably found in a laboratory in Wuhan unless they were let out by animal rights protesters 😗

[henry d]

13 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i think that is highly unlikely with the Bat, they have been eating them for years, more like the Government Laboratory in Wuhan

We, as a species, have been eating chimps/monkeys for millenia or even 100`s of thousands of years yet we got HIV when it jumped from SIV to humans.

28 minutes ago, Surfer said:

So do I believe all that I am told that a bat caused it ?

i have also seen interviews that say it was man made , now I’ve told you that do you believe me ?

What proof have you seen yourself?

A fair few things, but as they  are from scientists can we trust them?

4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

It’s all down to interpretation Of the language 

bat 

cat 

rat 

all pretty similar And all probably found in a laboratory in Wuhan unless they were let out by animal rights protesters 😗

See above answers

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, henry d said:

We, as a species, have been eating chimps/monkeys for millenia or even 100`s of thousands of years yet we got HIV when it jumped from SIV to humans.

A fair few things, but as they  are from scientists can we trust them?

See above answers

And how did it jump? 
 

we’re entering to have a good conspiracy theory so please add something useless and humorous it’s so much more fun 

 

[Surfer]

16 minutes ago, henry d said:

We, as a species, have been eating chimps/monkeys for millenia or even 100`s of thousands of years yet we got HIV when it jumped from SIV to humans.

A fair few things, but as they  are from scientists can we trust them?

See above answers

Not really any concrete proof of it coming from a bat 🦇, no proof of it being man made either 

but why are the numbers of deaths lower at the epicentre than the rest of the world 🌍 

 

[Mice!]

49 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

we’re entering to have a good conspiracy theory so please add something useless and humorous it’s so much more fun 

Well Japan hasn't been overly affected,  their not over fond of the Chinese,  so maybe they released something? They also have a definite grudge against USA so maybe it was designed with more aggression towards American DNA and European DNA?

[Old farrier]

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Well Japan hasn't been overly affected,  their not over fond of the Chinese,  so maybe they released something? They also have a definite grudge against USA so maybe it was designed with more aggression towards American DNA and European DNA?

thats more like it thanks mice 👍😊

hope you never took offence at me suggesting a relative is the cause of this (rat) 🤭
And there spreading it about on toilet rolls 
and pasta or maybe the rice that everyone panic bought?😂