labour

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

For me personally - it was a pretty good time. 

My big problem with Blair/Brown was that Blair was a cynical liar (and I suspect ultimately a crook) - Weapons of mass destruction, David Kelly, a whole raft of things all based on spin carried out by Campbell and Mandleson, - two other shady characters, releasing IRA convicted murderers, relations with Gadaffi, hugely increasing immigration (as a result of which we have current housing shortages), devaluing higher education by introducing a mass of so called Universities ........ and preaching soft socialism and greater equality and social mobility for all - whilst lining his own nest and building his own property empire and fortune.  Knighthoods and honours to his cronies (mind you he wasn't alone in that).

Brown was deceptive - being so careful to tell us how prudent he was being with the finances - and in reality committing us to VAST debts under the cover of PFI - which basically meant debt with much higher interest than normal - but crucially didn't appear on the books.

Politics has never recovered from the Blair years as it was (perhaps not the start, but the enormous growth of) the era of the 'triumph of spin and make believe over reality'.  Everyone since has followed his bad example.

Fair enough, I agree with most of that. Regarding the spin, that's an interesting one, based on what I see on here and social media at times it feels like the current government, or perhaps the opposition, have energised a portion of the public as spin doctors.

[lancer425]

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

That should be the case .......... but I doubt it will be.  The next 4 1/2 years (i.e. until the next election) are going to be economically 'lean'.  Just how lean remains to be seen - but the government in power at the time (presumably still Boris) will cop the blame and there will be none of the more relaxed spending that was planned to help those former Labour voters in the north.  Labour said when Brown left office "Sorry, no money left".  We are back in just that position again .........

Boris will have to pull some magic out of the hat to get things going again really quickly - and that assumes we get a vaccine  soon.  If we continue to have repeated flare ups/second, third waves etc. of Covid - then public opinion will need someone to blame - and the government will be the one to get the blame ........ regardless whether it is their fault or not.

Remember - the opposition cannot really ever be blamed.

But will Labour be viewed as that Opposition.? Corbyn inflicted some serious damage to labour, and his face is still there floating about weakening the Labour party. The public are not going to forget corbyn very easy. Boris  I feel as risen in his presence as a minister and probably in the opinion poles but never checked to see.

 Either way i think he is in a stronger position than he was when he took office.

But i agree the next few years will be tough, but i think its how well the government weather the constant media storms, that will influence opinions.

I just dont see starmer having it, i also think the corbyn lovers or at least fans  were so prevalent in the Labour part leadership candidacy that Corbynisum vein is  still alive and kicking in there just subdued. I dont think starmer has what it takes to make friends and influence people in his own right. Put it this way we are not going to see starmerisum, as an emtity unless he just picks up the corbyn batten and runs with it.   No we are good we wont see another Labour Leader in no10 in 4.5 years. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Regarding the spin, that's an interesting one,

To be fair, the spin would have come even without Blair/Campbell/Mandelson.  It was due to them it came sooner, more widespread and 'greater' here in the UK.  It had been in the US for a while.

3 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

No we are good we wont see another Labour Leader in no10 in 4.5 years.

I hope you are right, but I don't have the same confidence you have

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Fair enough, I agree with most of that. Regarding the spin, that's an interesting one, based on what I see on here and social media at times it feels like the current government, or perhaps the opposition, have energised a portion of the public as spin doctors.

The media is a fickle thing, and never predictable. I do not know if its me just wanting to find out facts, but i am finding the media even social media more annoying this last few weeks.

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

To be fair, the spin would have come even without Blair/Campbell/Mandelson.  It was due to them it came sooner, more widespread and 'greater' here in the UK.  It had been in the US for a while.

I hope you are right, but I don't have the same confidence you have

 Think about Corbyn is influence on the Labour party. Concentrate, let all that sink in. Ready Horrible. Now think now what we are going through what Boris went through, all this media **** storm now. Now think about coming out of all this the financial losses, getting back on our feet brexit i mean that alone we had enough to do then. BUT NOW!.   Get ready its not going to be nice. But Now slip forward to the next election. Yes a lot has or should i say wil have gone on by then. But Corbyn will even after all this and what is to come still be the Creature that he was and is and his ISUM just as bad.  No trust me i think we are safe. No one will forget corbyn in two decades never mind a few years.

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

The media is a fickle thing, and never predictable. I do not know if its me just wanting to find out facts, but i am finding the media even social media more annoying this last few weeks.

And so are the public (fickle). I agree on the media and social media.

I do think some people are also underestimating the tasks facing the government. We're not allowed to discuss the B word but the deadline for requesting an extension to the transition period is fast approaching. There will be more than a few raised eyebrows if the deadline passes without a request for extension.

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

And so are the public (fickle). I agree on the media and social media.

I do think some people are also underestimating the tasks facing the government. We're not allowed to discuss the B word but the deadline for requesting an extension to the transition period is fast approaching. There will be more than a few raised eyebrows if the deadline passes without a request for extension.

I don’t know what they will do about brexit, i really don’t. The EU did not sound like they would delay , but again it could have been that much disjointed by the media the reality could have been different  i have no faith in their reporting any more.   Time will tell.

[Vince Green]

13 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

For me personally - it was a pretty good time. 

My big problem with Blair/Brown was that Blair was a cynical liar (and I suspect ultimately a crook) - Weapons of mass destruction, David Kelly, a whole raft of things all based on spin carried out by Campbell and Mandleson, - two other shady characters, releasing IRA convicted murderers, relations with Gadaffi, hugely increasing immigration (as a result of which we have current housing shortages), devaluing higher education by introducing a mass of so called Universities ........ and preaching soft socialism and greater equality and social mobility for all - whilst lining his own nest and building his own property empire and fortune.  Knighthoods and honours to his cronies (mind you he wasn't alone in that).

Brown was deceptive - being so careful to tell us how prudent he was being with the finances - and in reality committing us to VAST debts under the cover of PFI - which basically meant debt with much higher interest than normal - but crucially didn't appear on the books.

Politics has never recovered from the Blair years as it was (perhaps not the start, but the enormous growth of) the era of the 'triumph of spin and make believe over reality'.  Everyone since has followed his bad example.

good post you only forgot to mention that Brown sold our gold reserves as well

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

good post you only forgot to mention that Brown sold our gold reserves as well

That is true.

[B725]

39 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

good post you only forgot to mention that Brown sold our gold reserves as well

He not only sold the gold reserves but announced to the world he was and gold prices tumbled but he sold it anyway, the money men snapped it up as prices were low sat on it for a couple of year's and made a fortune. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I just found this and it sums up Sir Keir Starmer perfectly!

 

"Sir Keir isn’t disappointing us though, he is proving to be everything we thought he would be.

He is Blair mk2, but with less acting ability."

[lancer425]

33 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I just found this and it sums up Sir Keir Starmer perfectly!

 

"Sir Keir isn’t disappointing us though, he is proving to be everything we thought he would be.

He is Blair mk2, but with less acting ability."

Where the heck did you get that. . Perfect i only wish i had had enough whit  to write that.   

[Newbie to this]

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

 

  I have to admit he is coming as a chap who is just looking to think of any gripe he can and just not hitting gold. Labour are seemingly very THICK .

[panoma1]

On 07/05/2020 at 22:27, lancer425 said:

I don’t know what they will do about brexit, i really don’t. The EU did not sound like they would delay , but again it could have been that much disjointed by the media the reality could have been different  i have no faith in their reporting any more.   Time will tell.

The EU want access to our fishing waters and fish.....I have long thought, that is where the battle will be won or lost! I believe, If the EU stick to their guns on this matter......the UK will leave with no deal

[Newbie to this]

41 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The EU want access to our fishing waters and fish.....I have long thought, that is where the battle will be won or lost! I believe, If the EU stick to their guns on this matter......the UK will leave with no deal

Hopefully

[The Heron]

4 hours ago, lancer425 said:

  I have to admit he is coming as a chap who is just looking to think of any gripe he can and just not hitting gold. Labour are seemingly very THICK .

That series of pictures must be wrong  the Labour leader looks nothing like Len Mccluskey.