bwana Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Everyone is sounding off over the death of one I.I. attempting to cross the channel.How many of our children die on the roads every day ? Not a word, shows us where our priorities lie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Not the same thing, seems he was older than first thought too. Crossing the road is a choice, for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is about ensuring their safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, henry d said: Crossing the road is a choice, for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is about ensuring their safety. From the terrible dangers they face in.... France? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, henry d said: Not the same thing, seems he was older than first thought too. Crossing the road is a choice, for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is about ensuring their safety. I didn’t realise France was so dangerous. Surprised so many of us go there on holiday every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 do they not have a choice whether to attempt the crossing - AFAIA a large proportion of them are no more in danger than I am. How many more are we expected to finance with 4 star hotels and free financial hand outs - lets all go to their country and see what they offer us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Digression from the OP - Same old fatuous answers, Syria, Iraq, etc are not the greatest of places if you are gay, or don't agree with the ruling elite. It's their choice where in Europe they want to go to, usually due to speaking the language or having family or friends there. How much do they get and when do they get it? How many are in 4* accommodation or are they all in 4* @bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yates Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 For some reason they see Britain as the Holy Grail, the land of milk and honey. How misguided they must be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, henry d said: Digression from the OP - Same old fatuous answers, Syria, Iraq, etc are not the greatest of places if you are gay, or don't agree with the ruling elite. It's their choice where in Europe they want to go to, usually due to speaking the language or having family or friends there. How much do they get and when do they get it? How many are in 4* accommodation or are they all in 4* @bruno22rf So do they come to the U.K. because they are in danger in France or choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 43 minutes ago, AVB said: Syria, Iraq, etc are not the greatest of places if you are gay, or don't agree with the ruling elite. It's their choice where in Europe they want to go to, usually due to speaking the language or having family or friends there. So do they come to the U.K. because they are in danger in France or choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 49 minutes ago, yates said: For some reason they see Britain as the Holy Grail, the land of milk and honey. How misguided they must be Yeah, if you get asylum status you may get £37-75 and somewhere to live but not of your choice of locus. However some on here think that they are all in 4* accommodation and living it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 53 minutes ago, yates said: For some reason they see Britain as the Holy Grail, the land of milk and honey. How misguided they must be They are not misguided; they get excellent treatment here, no costs, accommodation, food, assistance with seeking legal aid to get asylum - in fact every possible assistance. Very good treatment. It is said that the very helpful welcoming treatment they will get when they get to the UK is well known around the camps in France - which is why so many want to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, henry d said: For many asylum seekers crossing the channel is about ensuring their safety. 1 hour ago, AVB said: So do they come to the U.K. because they are in danger in France or choice? This. I am no fan of the Home Office nor of UK Border Force. Some of those that work there would have been a good fit for the Allegemeine SS-UK had this country fallen to the Nazis in 1940. And as for Theresa May as Home Secretary and Priti Patel my views would have me banned from PW. But the reality is that those that come THIS FAR from where they first entered Europe all the way to the English Channel are not refugees and not, at that point, seeking safety or asylum. They are plain and simple by making Britain as their final destination choice nothing but elective economic migrants. Edited August 20, 2020 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, henry d said: Not the same thing, seems he was older than first thought too. Crossing the road is a choice, for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is about ensuring their safety. So come on @henry danswer the question. Are they in danger in France? If not then they have a choice to stay in France or to come here. I agree that the U.K. is more desirable for them than France for a multitude of reasons but would dispute that safety is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, enfieldspares said: They are plain and simple by making Britain as their final destination choice nothing but economic migrants That flies in the face of evidence collected that suggest the opposite, they come to the UK because of persecution in their own country, family and friends living here and ability to speak English. I'm on my phone or I would give you the link, but I'm sure you could search it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, AVB said: So come on @henry danswer the question. Are they in danger in France? If not then they have a choice to stay in France or to come here. I agree that the U.K. is more desirable for them than France for a multitude of reasons but would dispute that safety is one of them. As said above, plus France's payments to asylum seekers is/was, the last time I checked, greater than ours @ 1.5 times, from the Amnesty website iirc, they also don't have to stop at the first safe European country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, henry d said: That flies in the face of evidence collected that suggest the opposite, they come to the UK because of persecution in their own country, family and friends living here and ability to speak English. I'm on my phone or I would give you the link, but I'm sure you could search it yourself. No. That is wrong. They may indeed genuinely leave their birth nations because of persecution. But they elect then to travel to the UK as economic migrants prompted, maybe, by having friends and family living here and an ability to speak English. The latter may be convenient to them but attempting to then cross the English Channel it is not a matter of escaping death and preserving one's life nor of urgent necessity of escape from an imminent and immediate danger. It is no more, as I've said, than at that point an economic migration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Quote they come to the UK because of persecution in their own country, family and friends living here and ability to speak English Absolute rubbish. A percentage might flee oppression, but the bulk are economic migrants and every one a criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Gordon R said: Absolute rubbish. A percentage might flee oppression, but the bulk are economic migrants and every one a criminal. 7 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: No. That is wrong. Proof please? Here's another perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 henry d - you ask for proof. Where is your proof for making an over the top statement? Are you also disputing that everyone is a criminal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, henry d said: As said above, plus France's payments to asylum seekers is/was, the last time I checked, greater than ours @ 1.5 times, from the Amnesty website iirc, they also don't have to stop at the first safe European country. Maybe. But you said “for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is a matter of safety”. So are they in danger in France? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Some more fact checking sure some will think or be told that the UK is a soft touch but that as I said is against the facts quoted, so if you can provide facts elsewhere that refute them, I'm all ears/eyes. @Gordon R, posted mine, awaiting yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) Quote So are they in danger in France? That is a reasonable and straightforward question. I made the mistake of reading your other perspective. Hogwash, supported by selectively poignant photos. It was amateurish and would hardly convince anyone. Proof must have another meaning in Perthshire. Edited August 20, 2020 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gordon R said: That is a reasonable and straightforward question. I made the mistake of reading your other perspective. Hogwash, supported by selectively poignant photos. It was amateurish and would hardly convince anyone. Proof must have another meaning in Perthshire. Excellent, retort, you took less than 5 minutes to read, digest, reflect, check out the sources and come back with a resounding refutation. Have a read of the other link, or just cling to your semmelweis reflex as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Are you also disputing that everyone is a criminal? An illegal immigrant - by definition is presumably a criminal - the word "illegal" is the clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, AVB said: Maybe. But you said “for many asylum seekers crossing the channel is a matter of safety”. So are they in danger in France? Matters not, they are in Europe, there choice where to stay, and as said and linked, the major influences are kindred, and ability to speak English. 3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: An illegal immigrant - by definition is presumably a criminal - the word "illegal" is the clue. True, but we probably all are when we disobey, for instance, speed signs or other laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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