Seal Cull

[red_stag88]

What are your views on the seal cull?

 

I agree with it, but not with the meathods. However we only see footage of the clubbings, many more may be shot, but we are not told as te images of the bludgeoning is more emotive.

 

I'm sure NTTF will enlighten us.

[jimbogriff]

havent seen any picks yet . i agree with it yet.

 

i thought there is a minimum caliber to shoot seals with , [i think its above .22 but i dont know

jimbo

[Cranfield]

This is a difficult one due to the lack of actual scientific knowledge.

 

I have heard arguments that if the seals are culled, it will replenish the cod and salmon stocks.

Then the counter argument is, that the seals are not responsible for the lack of cod and salmon, humans overfishing is.

 

If they just admitted that they were harvesting them for their pelts (one of the reasons they are clubbed, not shot), that wouldn,t be so bad.

Its also a pity they leave the skinned carcases behind, surely they could do something with the meat/fat.

 

I think I saw the first "blood on the snow" seal pup clubbing pictures in the newspapers , over 30 years ago.

Nothing much has changed since then and probably won,t for the next 30 years.

[Fisherman Mike]

In my view only the sensible implementation of proper fishing quotas will replenish fish stocks.

 

There is no animal on the planet that has contributed to the decline of its own food source, man is always the culprit.

 

There are infact less fish eating mammals on earth than there was 200 years ago before man started raping the seas.

 

A seal cull may be necessary to preserve dwindling fish stocks but this is not of the seals making. Nature if left unattended by man will always find its own balance and the seal population will fluctuate in relation to its food source and the polar bear and killer whale similarly.

 

I Like Cranfield, witnessed on national news the first broadcast seal culls of 30 years ago and I was horrifed, I still am.

 

This is the 21st century for gods sake, there must be a more humane method than to approach a small animal that has absolutely no knowledge or fear of man and club it to death like some neaderthal.. The whole episode makes me sick..

 

FM.

[new to the flock]

Fisherman Mike:

 

You are more than justified to have your views of the fishing problems off Canadas East Coast on the Grand Banks. You are partially correct, mans interferance has played a large roll in the declines of the fish stocks. Possibly one of the best ways to help solve this would be to ask all of the fish prossessing boats from Portigal, Russia, Great Britian, United States, and all other countries, to stop anchoring in International Waters through the day and running the Canadian Waters of the Banks at night with illegel nets. These are not small boats, but giant ships that proccess the fish as they are brought aboard, until there holds are full. During a good season this will take several weeks.

The other cause for the decline is the increase of seals on the Banks and Eastern seaboard. Since seals became protected on the East Coast there numbers have risen dramatically. You see when the Anties, namely Green Peace, won they not only halted the harvest of the fur seals but also all other seals that were hunted for meat. Meat that sustained many an Eastcoaster faimly through the harsh winters. Harbour seals and Ringed seals as well as others now journey up the coastal rivers feeding on salmon and trout stocks, turning once fabulous fisheries into very empty stretches of water. The seals that hunt and live on the Banks feed on the Cod there and excreat their waste there as well. All very normal and one of the reasons that these waters are so nutrient rich. The problem arises from the fact that with the number of seals there are now they are tranfering a Liver Fluke amongst them. This fluke is harmless to the seals, however when they dump their bowels to the ocean floor the flukes travel there as well and is fed upon by the cod. The fluke in turn kills the cod in great numbers, further depleating the fish stocks.

As to your and other peoples complaints on how the seals are harvested. How many pigeons or pheasants have your finished of by a blow to the head or by ringing its neck? Many of the seals during a cull are shot, many are clubbed, they are all killed and harvested either way. A sharp blow to the head will end a life just as fast and humanelly as a bullet. Do not fall for the pictures of the cute cuddly little blighters laying on the ice with big sad looking eyes. These were anti photos taken to develope pity for a cute seal. This ploy worked very well by the way hundreds of faimlys lost their jobs, their income, their boats THEIR WAY OF LIFE.

These are a wild animal that needs to be kept in check. They do not run from man as they have never seen a preditor not because they cant. Have you ever had a curious fox or rabbit come upto you while out hunting? If you have you probably did not let it walk away .

As for the meat, at one point and time almost all of it was brought back and ran through proccessing plants where it was canned and then sold in markets around the world. But thanks to the close of the seal season these to are nolonger operational, so the meat that is brought back now is for personal consumption only.

The last thing that I would like to point out is that seals were once harvested under seasons. These season were set by Wildlife and Fisheries Biologists, and were based on sound management techniques, and information. These seasons were taken away as was the Ontario Black Bears spring bear hunt, by a group of people that have no background in wildlife management. Most dont even know where the meat in the super market comes from. They did however know marketing, and how to appeal to the masses of uneducated people to part them with their money, to support their attacks on the hunting and fishing communities. In each case pictures of baby animals were used with heart wrenching captions, they worked. Do not fall for this type of propaganda. It is designed to cause emotional decissions not well educated ones. Do you realize that the right to hunt seals was decided by Canadian Polliticians? This means people living in cities in the centre of our country were making decissions effecting the lives of the East Coast. These are people that never new what a seal was until they saw an Anti Seal Hunt poster or button . What better way to change things, convince the ones in charge at the time that the people who voted them in will revote them in if they save the seals, or the bears, or the badgers, or stop the Fox Hunt, or Coursing it hits us all.

As I said before you are justified in your views and entiled to them, but if I was you I would not share them with a Canadian East Coaster.......

 

Cheers NTTF

[Fisherman Mike]

I certainly dont disagree with anything you said NTTF and appreciate that the Canadian and Native Eskimo or Inuit have relied on seal as a food source for centuries.

 

I dont disagree with a seal cull either if warranted to preserve fish stocks but you cant blame the seal for entering the inland waterways chasing salmon etc when its principle food source has been sucked off the bottom by a giant floating vacuum cleaner by Russians, Fins, Norweigans or Canadians for that matter.

 

I have seen theses "Factory Ships" first hand and they are nothing short of devastating the sea bed.

 

I was in fact involved with Green peace in the 70,s and appreciate there is a certain propaganda involved with the broadcasting of the seal culling but that said Clubbing is still barbaric, is still carried out and is still not necessary in this modern age.

 

Why are the adult seals not culled before they have the opportunity to reproduce ? because you know as well as I that an adult fur seals pelt is worth next to nothing.

 

I appreciate your views as I hope you do mine, but I certainly dont think seals should be culled in the ruse of protection of fish stocks which have been decimated by Human hand.

 

Regards.

 

FM.

[new to the flock]

FM:

 

I agree seals should not be culled under the guise of fish stock protection. They should be culled under the Proud act of FUR HARVESTING a proven wildlife controll method that has been in practice for 100's of years. As for harvesting the adult seals give us back our right to harvest them as a sustainable resource that is processed into food for humans around the world and they would be harvested again.

Harvesting seals is a fishery management tool. Like it or not. Harvesting the young fur seal pups on the ice is at presant time the most cost effective way. I am not saying it is the best way. As for clubbing it is a humane way of harvest, as is the rifle that is used on many seals as well. I am not against any forum of harvest as long as it is humane.

If I had my way every seal that is harvested would be processed and canned at the cost to the fishing industry and the tax payer. I would then send every one of those cans around the world to feed a starving child. But it is not a perfect world. It seems in todays world people are more concerned with how an animal dies than how a CHILD LIVES.

[Fisherman Mike]

It seems in todays world people are more concerned with how an animal dies than how a CHILD LIVES.

Quite true, we are a cruel and callous race, are we not?

 

But are you not now using immotive propaganda to justify a seal cull?

 

That said suffering, deprivation, poverty and famine the world over is not the fault of any native animal, bird or fish is it?

 

I thought we were the superior intelligence on this earth. we can split the atom, generate nuclear power, sustain human life with miraculous medical treatments and even put a man on the moon but we cannot find a way to humanely cull the humble fur seal without incurring the wrath of thousands around the world. I still think that Clubbing generates a dormant prehistoric picture in the average educated human and is an obselete method of taking life.

 

Thank you for educating me on the issue as seen from the perspective of the East Coaster.

 

Regards,

 

FM.

[webber]

NTTF & FM

 

Dont forget that not too long ago the UK had its own massive cull of cattle and sheep thanks to foot and mouth desease.

 

As far as I know we used rifles and humane killers. Whilst clubbing may be effective, it does not put the hunters in the best of positions when attempting to defend their lawfull activity.

 

webber

[new to the flock]

Gentleman:

 

Please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that clubbing is the best way to harvest an animal. However it is a humane way to harvest, the same as it is used to harvest a fox, or rabbit from a snare that is still alive in the U.K..

I am also not saying that commercial fishing is in the right and that there are no problems with the way it is ran. In Lake Erie alone there is enough net strung each year to reach the moon and come back 6 times over. Is this excessive Yes.

I would like you all to think about the fact that the human race has been involved in the harvesting of animals since we all joined this world, be it a Mastadon or a Seal. We can not just step out of the picture and expect the animal world to right all of the wrongs. This does not work. However if all the world would get together and adhear to a sustainable yield and management practise, instead of letting the almighty dollar rule, we would be further ahead.

[Cranfield]

I think we are lucky to have nttf posting an, "on the spot", opinion.

 

He is right, the seals should be harvested for their pelts and meat.

This has been going on for centuries and is quite sustainable.

Its the media image of them being killed for no "reason", that is hard to accept.

 

I think the clubbing is done to protect the pelts.

It probably is quite humane, but it does look barbaric.

 

One point I disagree with nttf on is, "How many pigeons or pheasants have your finished of by a blow to the head or by ringing its neck?".

Those creatures had already been shot and wounded.

I wouldn,t go hunting anything with a club, or the intention of strangling it to death.

 

Taking all nttf,s points together, I don,t feel so anti the cull, as I did.

However, I wish they would leave the clubs at home and use guns, or humane killers.

[Fisherman Mike]

I wish they would leave the clubs at home and use guns, or humane killers.

I agree whole heartedly...

 

There is more than one way to kill a Cat... ooops. :*)

[remytherussell]

There is a very thought-provoking arrticle by Boris Johson in todays Daily Telegraph on the seal-cull subject.

As he says, we kill 1.5 million cattle & 12.5 million sheep with a bolt through the brain every year in Britain. Further, 200,00 embyos are aborted here yearly. Do they feel pain?

[rarms]

if man hadnt killed the bears and wolves in the beginning then would there be this many seals?

[Yorkshire Pudding]

Before i go clubbing , i like to visit a few bars for a beer or 2 . Do the canadian hunters do the same ?

 

 

all the best yis yp

[red_stag88]

Interesting debate we have here lads.

 

Are you actively involved in the Cull NTTf, or would you rather not say?

 

Each day this week I get the train to Birmingham, and each day I read the interesing letters in the Metro. One chap makes the vailid point that why are we so concerened with the death of some seals, and not the horrific things happening to humans around the world, the slaughter of childern and women in african tribal fighting, the starvation of millions in 3rd world countrys etc. Is it that humans are simply not cute enough?

[Fisherman Mike]

and not the horrific things happening to humans around the world, the slaughter of childern and women in african tribal fighting

Good point Red...

 

But talk to someone from Oxfam and find out the root cause of third world poverty.

 

Many of these countries have the resources to feed themselves and have been funded in the past by new world government and charity hand outs but their own corrupt and immoral establishments would rather see their fellow countrymen and tribesmen die than provide the aid they need.

 

Tribal warfare in Africa particularly has been going on for thousands of years and will continue for thousands more. It was the way which neighbouring tribes controlled their population and provided for their own when crops failed and famine threatened. It is only since the Victorians and Edwardians decided that we would introduce them to Christianity and try to Anglicise them that the scale of poverty and famine has increased to the level as we know it now.

[digger]

an article in todays Mail quoted a seal population of over five million.the guy who wrote the article used every cliche in the book, "bloody harvest","slaughter","hacked to death" etc etc.

all this from a country that attempts to ban fox hunting yet happily buys battery reared chickens.one is cruel because it can be seen yet the other is hidden so is ok ? :<

i think not

i think it is yet again public perception that counts.the japanese kill thousands of sharks every year just for their fins-no problem,Jaws.the french eat horses,who cares,but give it big dark eyes and bingo !

nttf,all power to you,i hope we are as well infomed and elloquent when we have defend our right to cull a pest species.

[Teal]

If they clubbed horses mate there would be outroar!!

 

Regards,

William.

[Yorkshire Pudding]

A-ha

 

At last i have been reminded of the comment for you to discus?spln?

 

PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE !

 

 

all the best yis yp

[Teal]

Aye, horses for courses mate.

[new to the flock]

Are you actively involved in the Cull NTTf, or would you rather not say?

 

 

 

Red:

 

No red I am not actively involved in the cull. However I have many a good friend on the East Coast that has been affected by the ban of the seal hunt, and fisherie closing, both netting and lobster. Who ever mentioned the big sad eyes hit the nail on the head.

Personally I would like to see every person taking part in the seal hunt issued a .22cal pistol with a silencer. This would take 75% of the argument out of the cull. This however is illegel in Canada, so the bad press will continue. I was informed last night and I hope I get this correct, that the East Coast Fisheries account for 40,000 tons of fish while the seals account for 125,000 tons of fish annually

[Guest Mr Pieman]

NT,

I don't think the issue is about hitting 'a nail on the head' is it?

 

For years the culling has received bad global press but people never grasp how destructive 'pretty' animals can be. As long as its humane there can be no real arguement in the need to cull as a management tool.

 

Perhaps one day it'll go back to the ways of the old days and people will be able to be fed the meat to solve hunger around the world. I feel a spot of global govenment re-organisation being required

 

PP

[Columbus Polumbus]

It is interesting to note, we as hunters suffer from the same problems and emotions we say we understand and others don't

 

A good sharp blow to the head will kill instantly, thats why we still have "priests" in this country for killing fish. Its a lot more humane to dispatch a fish this way than let it suffocate on the bank for ages.

 

It is also of notable interest in this country more people are killed, statistically, with hammers (Presumeably by a sharp blow to the head) than legally held firearms.

 

So there we have it, its ok to club a fish to death but not a seal! Club your fellow man to death and nothing is said, it don't even make the papers.

 

I have no experience of the problems that Nttf's country has and do not intend to engage in the morality or ethics of what is happening other than I will not make hypocracy the issue by expressing opinion on what I read in the paper or in the news. I try to establish the facts and base my decision on this and any other measurable data that has been collated using recognised techniques.

 

What is not in question is the way the media report this requirement in exactly the same way we have had our own hunting and fishing attacked here in the UK. This should tell us all something.................. shouldn't it??

[sharp_shooter]

Nature always finds a perfect balance. It is only when humans then interfere with nature that it becomes unbalanced so perhaps instead of killing the animals which are part of the balance we stop the humans interrupting it. Perhaps we should club them! :<