Nothing to see here, move along. No, no fraud at all in US election.

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, Pushkin said:

Sleepy Joe is the person that had the right image those behind him wanted to portray. But that is being questioned by al,l now that the Hunter Biden and the Chinese deals are being investigated. Chances are that if he does become president that he will soon turn ill and give over to his vice president Kamala Harris.

For all the dislike spewed about Trump by the democrats and the extremely biased big named news companies and multi media companies like twitter - will not  not even report what is happening now with Trump, but will report every-time Sleepy joe farts and then smiles.

Trump on the other hand and anybody who supports him and posts on Twitter etc are having their posts cancelled and noted as being inflamatory or not in the public good????  How dare they censor anyone's texts or mails in this manner.  Tail wagging the dog here.  Could that be because Trump does stand up to them and the power they wield?

Grrr Clark I admire the fact you have made up your mind on where the right rests, but for me - and for many more Americans - the smell from Denmark is far too strong to deny. Given the amount of conspirational claptrap with evidence regarding the fixing of Trump on the orders of Mrs Clinton regarding the Russian connection- was all fake news and suitably led to his impeachment coming to a great big ZILCH - it seems crazy that even with the proof nothing has been done to those from both the FBI and the CIA who ere complicit - reeks of rotten fish. I think there will be much further to come out of this travesty of democracy and Biden - if he gets in - will be a great tragedy.  (Blimey glad I got that out!)

Pushkin

Trump's tweets aren't being deleted, some are being given a fact warning. If he stopped lying and spreading fake news himself, they'd let up on him for it! 

You call it a travesty of democracy...what's your evidence? And don't just present all the stuff that's been booted out of every single state court. There's a reason it's been booted out and it's not just that the Lizard people don't want Trump to win. These judges and state officials (both Republican and Democrat) have played it by the law, and the law's showing that so far his crazy accusations are garbage.

Nothing's showing that the Dominion machines have done anything wrong. There was the occasional use error that were fixed immediately, but beyond that, they've done their job. He's lost 'in a landslide' and should probably get used to that, rather than urinating all over his own legacy. A few weeks ago he put up a tweet saying that Biden did poorly in big cities...which is odd, given that Biden one 29 out of the 30 most populous cities (Oklahoma City, ranked 27th went red). He just talks drivel and hopes some will stick. That works with his supporters, it works with his new pet media agencies, but it's a little less effective in a court of law that need this pesky thing called credibility. All his affidavits are useless, because there are just as many (and at least equally, sometimes far more credible) that directly contradict them. 

This business in Georgia needs to be thoroughly investigated, but he's going nowhere with Arizona, Wisconsin, Nevada, Michigan and critically Pennsylvania. In a few weeks he'll be out of office, almost certainly by the landslide of 306-232 and then the fun begins over his tax records in New York. Once he loses the protection of the seal, I suspect he'll be seeing the inside of a fair few courtrooms. Whether that's just vindictiveness on the part of a state he's been so rude about, I don't know, but they'll certainly push for it.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said:

 

 

Nothing's showing that the Dominion machines have done anything wrong. There was the occasional use error that were fixed immediately, but beyond that, they've done their job. He's lost 'in a landslide' and should probably get used to that, rather than urinating all over his own legacy. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9023641/Rudy-Giuliani-celebrates-big-win-Michigan-judge-allows-investigation-voting-machines.html

[The Heron]

Only over 2000 dying a day Trump is a total disgrace. 

[chrisjpainter]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9023641/Rudy-Giuliani-celebrates-big-win-Michigan-judge-allows-investigation-voting-machines.html

Nope. This is crazy Giuliani trying to turn it into a Trojan horse. 'The investigation is into a claim made by voter William Bailey over the validity of a vote on a proposal concerning marijuana, and not the presidential election'. Also, 'the star witness tar witness in Trump’s ‘voter fraud’ case in Michigan was recently released from probation after being accused of sending her fiance’s ex-wife pornographic videos and then attempting to frame her of stealing them'. Hardly reliable - a highly prized trait in Trump witnesses.

Crazy Giuliani's trying again to invalidate millions of votes by finding one tiny little provable error. He tried the same thing in Pennsylvania and got nowhere. He couldn't prove the tiny little thing then, I doubt he can do it here. We'll see, but whatever happens with this case, it won't have the effect that Crazy Giuliani's claiming it will have.

[12gauge82]

12 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Nope. This is crazy Giuliani trying to turn it into a Trojan horse. 'The investigation is into a claim made by voter William Bailey over the validity of a vote on a proposal concerning marijuana, and not the presidential election'. Also, 'the star witness tar witness in Trump’s ‘voter fraud’ case in Michigan was recently released from probation after being accused of sending her fiance’s ex-wife pornographic videos and then attempting to frame her of stealing them'. Hardly reliable - a highly prized trait in Trump witnesses.

Crazy Giuliani's trying again to invalidate millions of votes by finding one tiny little provable error. He tried the same thing in Pennsylvania and got nowhere. He couldn't prove the tiny little thing then, I doubt he can do it here. We'll see, but whatever happens with this case, it won't have the effect that Crazy Giuliani's claiming it will have.

I agree that there could well be no evidence of fraud, but it is interesting that the voting machines are being investigated, I'm going to sit on the fence until all the evidence is in. 

[Pushkin]

Ah well then believe what you choose to - I do and I'm quite happy with that.  I came to this whole thing about Trump mid last year or so when I was trying to find out why everyone hated him so much - even here in Britain. Asking why folks got so upset about him the reply was almost totally along the lines of look at all the wrong he has done - so I went looking.  The allegations against him back as far as when he won the presidency and how Mrs Clinton decided to set the FBI and the CIA on him for supposedly having treacherous liaisons with the Russians which in the end all turned out to be false or fake news. The attempt to impeach him which really went no -where.  The fact he had fiddled his tax somehow - so what - don't most Americans try that as do we Brits?  Now we know that the Russian nonsense was just that, why is nothing being done to follow this up and prosecute the miscreants?  Again I would draw folks attentions to his record as the President and the good he has done and the wealth he has brought back to the nation along with the fact he was thrice nominated for  A Noble peace prize.  The breakthrough he made with the middle east in getting them around the table and talking about what they need to do to establish at least better peace.  The fact he has drawn more black people into the Centre as regards politics and creating jobs along with creating  anew and affordable health care system for all not just the wealthy.  He has also taken a stance about jobs for Americans not for outside nations. He has helped recreate wealth among the states.  As they say- it will all come out in the wash.  Have a good night folks.

Pushkin

[grrclark]

Where did you look to find your truth Pushkin?

The reality is that the majority of commentary available is partial, it is either pro Trump and if you’re a Trump fan you’re going to believe that, or it is anti Trump and if you don’t like him that is what you will choose to believe.

When making an assessment about whether the election result was a massive systemic fraud i’m not making that with any partiality, i genuinely don’t care.

I’m looking at it objectively, not a single bit of evidence put forward as being proof of large scale organised fraud has stood up in court, not a single bit.  More than 40 separate hearings across multiple states and heard by a broad church of judges of both Republican and Democrat bias.

Not even Trump’s own legal team are prepared to state under oath in the courtroom that they are alleging fraud.

Why do you think that is?

Why did his attorney general and close ally say that there was no proof of large scale systemic fraud?

Despite the frankly incoherent ramblings of Trump’s fan boys I look at the reality of that situation and make a decision based on that.  No more no less.  Absolutely no evidence presented in court to state there is a burden of proof in support of his claims of the election being rigged.  Why not?

There is a bit of me genuinely hopes there is some smoking gun or some real genuine proof of the untoward at a massive level, because that would make for epic watching, but it just isn’t going to happen.

If Trump is successful in having anything overturned it will be small scale and on the basis of some obscure technicality and it wont change the outcome of the race.

Meanwhile today in the US 3000 people died of Covid and the president apparently has nothing to say on that, other than Rudy caught the “China virus”.

Still tweeting how he “WON BIG”.  He’ll still tweet that after he has left the White House, even after all his court cases have been dismissed, even after every official body states there was no fraud and still tens of millions will believe him.  I daresay a good many of his fanboys on PW will believe it too.

Edited December 6, 2020 by grrclark
Rubbish typing

[Pushkin]

GrrrClark thanks for your response.

My knowledge has come over 6 months or so of trying to find out why Trump is so disliked and despised.  Many who when queried give the response well look at what he has done.  Looking further into that though, shows the opposite and he has been cleared through the courts and senate hearings. I think the only aspect still to be determined is the allegations of inappropriate sexual advances to some women - but their case is now coming to the fore and I sincerely hope they are given a fair hearing.

I hope you are not referring to me as one of trumps fan boys as I take offence at that if you are?

I really am someone who is keen to see the truth of the matter and understand why the dislike for him by so many?  Is it just a popular stance taken by the many or because they believed the false allegations made against him. 

To be honest, the bulk of the knowledge I have is based on lengthy observation of what is available on the internet and other on line information that I can find regardless of what side is commenting.  Seems as good if not better than what we get from the TV or newspapers across here. 

Trump is an arrogant character and that gets him into trouble when he blurts something out or tweets in anger.  That is his problem to resolve and I believe he has come under great pressure from his advisors not to do so..  Ah well. it'll soon be January and we will know one way or the other what is to happen.

Pushkin😎

[grrclark]

Thanks Pushkin.

There are many Trump fanboys on here, although your name was not on my mental list as being one of them so no offence intended or hopefully taken.

The popularity of Trump or otherwise doesn’t influence my thoughts on the election fraud piece. It’s a good discussion in it’s own right though.

What i have not yet seen from any who advance the theory it was a fraud was why has none of the things that they cite as evidence stood up in court.

Why when in court do his legal team not assert fraud and instead argue about relatively small procedural technicalities, but seek to invalidate the votes of millions.

Undoubtably they are trying to change the election outcome in the courts (and failing), but they are not trying to change it by proving fraud, I would like someone who believes the fraud story to tell me why that is.

[grrclark]

So will the Texas AG's petition to the Supreme Court be the pivotal moment in Trump's campaign to reverse the election result?  Trump has described this as the "Big One" and has intervened as a private citizen in the petition.

Will SCOTUS dismiss this as there is no additional evidence beyond that which has already been thrown out at a state level?

Will SCOTUS allow the petition to move to a proceeding and potentially allow different State's to disenfranchise millions of voters in other states?

Will SCOTUS take an unprecedented decision in allowing the motion to stand and effectively overturning the political will of the US electorate?

Will SCOTUS effectively put themselves in a position where the basis of federal independence in the US is cast aside as a consequence of their intervention?

Is this really a pitch by the AG of Texas to receive a presidential pardon, a quid pro quo deal?

If it is dismissed will Trump finally concede the election in a dignified way or will he continue to fight on with ever increasing desperation?

If it is dismissed will Trump's supporters finally accept they have been stitched up like a kipper and make to look foolish by believing the vainglory of their orange idol?

[mudpatten]

Trump Derangement Syndrome. Allways interesting to observe it in action.

[chrisjpainter]

7 hours ago, grrclark said:

So will the Texas AG's petition to the Supreme Court be the pivotal moment in Trump's campaign to reverse the election result?  Trump has described this as the "Big One" and has intervened as a private citizen in the petition.

Will SCOTUS dismiss this as there is no additional evidence beyond that which has already been thrown out at a state level?

Will SCOTUS allow the petition to move to a proceeding and potentially allow different State's to disenfranchise millions of voters in other states?

Will SCOTUS take an unprecedented decision in allowing the motion to stand and effectively overturning the political will of the US electorate?

Will SCOTUS effectively put themselves in a position where the basis of federal independence in the US is cast aside as a consequence of their intervention?

Is this really a pitch by the AG of Texas to receive a presidential pardon, a quid pro quo deal?

If it is dismissed will Trump finally concede the election in a dignified way or will he continue to fight on with ever increasing desperation?

If it is dismissed will Trump's supporters finally accept they have been stitched up like a kipper and make to look foolish by believing the vainglory of their orange idol?

I really doubt the Supreme Court will do anything on it. They booted the Pennsylvania plea out with a 9-0 decision. For all 9 judges to agree, especially in a case brought by republicans before a 6-3 republican majority supreme court, shows just how bad the plea was. If Trump thought loading the Supreme Court in his favour would put it in his pocket, he's about as big a fool as I thought him to be.

[grrclark]

50 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I really doubt the Supreme Court will do anything on it. They booted the Pennsylvania plea out with a 9-0 decision. For all 9 judges to agree, especially in a case brought by republicans before a 6-3 republican majority supreme court, shows just how bad the plea was. If Trump thought loading the Supreme Court in his favour would put it in his pocket, he's about as big a fool as I thought him to be.

I agree Chris.  The response from the 4 swing states was very pointed as well.

I half expect to wake up tomorrow to the news that the supreme court has refused to hear the case, although they may string it out for a day.  I also expect that to be a 9-0 decision too.

What comes next for The Donald if this was the “Big One”?

Some of his tweets today could almost be called an incitement for public unrest or violence.

Sad to say, but i wouldn’t be surprised to hear of some of the state/election officials in the 4 swing states being attacked or murdered.

[grrclark]

So as expected the SCOTUS have denied the Texas AGs attempt to overturn the election result.  Hundreds of GOP House members, 20 Republican states that filed to intervene in support, even some states that don't exist (New California and New Nevada) filed in support and still the complaint was dismissed as having no standing.  Doesn't say much for those GOP elected representatives who signed in support.  So keenly and openly trying to subvert the free democratic choice of the American electorate they are duty bound to serve, shame on them.

Trump's "Big One" shot down by the overwhelmingly Republican weighted judiciary.

Despite all the Trump furore about fraud not a single instance has been advanced and found to be substantive in court, not a single thing.  It doesn't matter what his pet press say, what the YouTube,Facebook, Reddit, Blogspace, Twitter conspiracists so confidently proclaim, when it comes down to being objectively challenged in a court of law not a single complaint or claim of fraud held up to scrutiny.  The "overwhelming  evidence" was smoke and mirrors, his fans who contributed $200million dollars in support of this fight to "stop the steal" were absolutely stitched up like kippers.  That is the biggest fraud or hoax of all.

So Walker570, you reckon that fat lady is singing yet?

Or is there a last desperate throw of the dice by Trump and his sycophantic followers?  I've seen very many now claiming that martial law will be declared, that there will be a trial for treason in the military court for those that orchestrated the fraud.

Edited December 12, 2020 by grrclark

[chrisjpainter]

The fat lady's sung, finished and is in her dressing room crying into her flowers that she's no longer the pretty soprano she once was. It's decided the case is so rubbish it's not even worth hearing! So much for the supreme court cavalry riding in to rescue the American democracy. It seems they've lost their horses. 

That's enough metaphor. It staggers me that a republican state could think that it's okay to demand four states' results to be overturned just because it doesn't like the result. So much for believing their states are sovereign. Imagine your average Texan's response if California had tried to do it to Texas! Such appalling hypocrisy. Nasty, spiteful case that wasn't even supported by some Texan legislators. I'm glad the Supreme Court's decided it's not even worth their time hearing.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, grrclark said:

So as expected the SCOTUS have denied the Texas AGs attempt to overturn the election result.  Hundreds of GOP House members, 20 Republican states that filed to intervene in support, even some states that don't exist (New California and New Nevada) filed in support and still the complaint was dismissed as having no standing.  Doesn't say much for those GOP elected representatives who signed in support.  So keenly and openly trying to subvert the free democratic choice of the American electorate they are duty bound to serve, shame on them.

Trump's "Big One" shot down by the overwhelmingly Republican weighted judiciary.

Despite all the Trump furore about fraud not a single instance has been advanced and found to be substantive in court, not a single thing.  It doesn't matter what his pet press say, what the YouTube,Facebook, Reddit, Blogspace, Twitter conspiracists so confidently proclaim, when it comes down to being objectively challenged in a court of law not a single complaint or claim of fraud held up to scrutiny.  The "overwhelming  evidence" was smoke and mirrors, his fans who contributed $200million dollars in support of this fight to "stop the steal" were absolutely stitched up like kippers.  That is the biggest fraud or hoax of all.

So Walker570, you reckon that fat lady is singing yet?

Or is there a last desperate throw of the dice by Trump and his sycophantic followers?  I've seen very many now claiming that martial law will be declared, that there will be a trial for treason in the military court for those that orchestrated the fraud.

Got to say, I think you've been pretty much spot on with this one. Trump needs to accept defeat or he risks making more of a mockery of democracy than has already happened in the west the last few years. 

[grrclark]

9 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

The fat lady's sung, finished and is in her dressing room crying into her flowers that she's no longer the pretty soprano she once was. It's decided the case is so rubbish it's not even worth hearing! So much for the supreme court cavalry riding in to rescue the American democracy. It seems they've lost their horses. 

That's enough metaphor. It staggers me that a republican state could think that it's okay to demand four states' results to be overturned just because it doesn't like the result. So much for believing their states are sovereign. Imagine your average Texan's response if California had tried to do it to Texas! Such appalling hypocrisy. Nasty, spiteful case that wasn't even supported by some Texan legislators. I'm glad the Supreme Court's decided it's not even worth their time hearing.

Chris, i see some comments from very senior Texas GOP party executives that are all but calling for secession from the Union.

Trump’s most vocal pet media poodles are actually calling for military intervention.

I do fear that this could turn very ugly.

6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Got to say, I think you've been pretty much spot on with this one. Trump needs to accept defeat or he risks making more of a mockery of democracy than has already happened in the west the last few years. 

Agreed.  The irony of the man who describes himself as the ultimate patriot who is doing so much damage to his own, the GOP’s and America’s reputation as well as creating a huge fracture across American society.  It’s sad.

[chrisjpainter]

44 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Chris, i see some comments from very senior Texas GOP party executives that are all but calling for secession from the Union.

Trump’s most vocal pet media poodles are actually calling for military intervention.

I do fear that this could turn very ugly.

Agreed.  The irony of the man who describes himself as the ultimate patriot who is doing so much damage to his own, the GOP’s and America’s reputation as well as creating a huge fracture across American society.  It’s sad.

It's a worry, for sure. I think a lot will depend on how Biden portrays himself in the next few weeks. The last thing he should be doing is pouring petrol onto the situation. I'd ride it out in quietness, make the odd public address about what he's going to do, but nothing negative, however justified it would be. His inauguration will inevitably be all about spreading harmony, healing wounds and drawing the country together. That will sound better if he hasn't been going on a triumphalist bender slamming Trump at every turn. His supporters are angry enough as it is, but if they feel mocked as well as disenfranchised, they will start reaching for guns. I hope it doesn't happen, but I can see an early doors assassination attempt. 

[Yellow Bear]

24 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I hope it doesn't happen, but I can see an early doors assassination attempt. 

And it may even be from the extreme side of his own party.

[serrac]

Somehow I think if Trump had won the election and vote-switching from Biden to Trump had been caught live on air there would be a Judge somewhere agreeing to take on the case rather than hiding behind "standing".

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/11/five-videos-five-states-where-votes-were-switched-live-on-tv-away-from-president-trump-to-biden-updated/

 

 

 

 

[chrisjpainter]

8 hours ago, serrac said:

Somehow I think if Trump had won the election and vote-switching from Biden to Trump had been caught live on air there would be a Judge somewhere agreeing to take on the case rather than hiding behind "standing".

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/11/five-videos-five-states-where-votes-were-switched-live-on-tv-away-from-president-trump-to-biden-updated/

 

 

 

 

There hasn't been any vote switching. As as been shown time and time and time again.

[Vince Green]

Trump is his own worst enemy. He is clearly delusional and living in a fantasy world

[grrclark]

14 hours ago, serrac said:

Somehow I think if Trump had won the election and vote-switching from Biden to Trump had been caught live on air there would be a Judge somewhere agreeing to take on the case rather than hiding behind "standing".

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/11/five-videos-five-states-where-votes-were-switched-live-on-tv-away-from-president-trump-to-biden-updated/

57 court cases lost and not a single bit of credible evidence put in front of the court, yet this nonsense persists.

What is it that makes people continue to believe utter nonsense in spite of the obvious truth?  State, federal and the supreme federal courts all said the same thing, as did numerous federal agencies, but of course some partisan online media outlet has it right.

[serrac]

On 14/12/2020 at 23:22, grrclark said:

57 court cases lost and not a single bit of credible evidence put in front of the court, yet this nonsense persists.

What is it that makes people continue to believe utter nonsense in spite of the obvious truth?  State, federal and the supreme federal courts all said the same thing, as did numerous federal agencies, but of course some partisan online media outlet has it right.

That's a bit harsh labeling CNN a "partisan online media" just because they inadvertently published data that demolishes your narrative.
I guess that's one way of dealing with your cognitive dissonance.

"An uninformed reader might say that the courts have examined the evidence and have rejected the evidence of electoral fraud as insubstantial.  And, indeed, the reader would have to be uninformed or misled by the lies of the presstitute media.  

The fact is this: No court has examined the evidence. No state court and not the US Supreme Court.  The reason that the courts have not accepted the cases is that they do not want to have to examine the evidence, because the evidence clearly establishes that the election was stolen and that the theft was carefully planned in advance.  The state courts in the swing states where the election was stolen are protecting the Democrats. The US Supreme Court refused to accept the case on the grounds that Texas did not have standing to bring a case.  Clearly, there has been no judicial ruling on the evidence that the election was legitimate. The US Supreme Court will protect the Establishment and the Establishment’s reputation before it will protect  electoral integrity. 

The evidence has been refused examination by the state and federal judiciary.

So much for “American democracy.”  So much for the “American Rule of Law.”  No such rule exists.  Law exists only for the purposes of the ruling Establishment. Power, not law, rules in America. 

The US Supreme Court is an Establishment institution. It makes controversial rulings only when it has the media on its side."

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/12/14/free-inquiry-r-i-p/

 

Yes another "partisan online media" 
Perhaps you'd like to direct us to some media outlets that are guaranteed free of partisanship in either direction?
 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

[Smokersmith]

Why would the "most powerful man in the world", who was in Government, holding power ... allow an election to take place with such an inherently flawed system?

What I recall from the coverage was that Trump took an early lead, then there was a very gradual narrowing of the window ... then several hours of 'anyone could win' before Biden eventually pulled away in the following days. A co-ordinated effort by someone not in power to affect results over such a broad base seems completely implausible to me.