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On 03/01/2021 at 15:37, Ultrastu said:

So i managed to do a comparison between  sub 12 and fac on these slugs .

Expansion test into my bacon test medium .this time there were 4 packs of bacon back to back .giving 100 mm of meat .with the soft pellet catcher behind . Guns used 

Sub 12 bsa ultra .600 fps at the muzzle  

Fac scorpion  800 fps at the muzzle  

Point blank  .

The 600 fps slug penetrated all 100mm of bacon and was caught  very gentally by the rags .the 800 fps slug penetrated to a depth of 70 mm and was found between the layers of bacon .

Expansion was huge on the fast slug measuring 8mm  and almost nil on the 600 fps slug  

This brings real world proof to the idea of projectile shape governing penetration depth not necessarily velocity..

 

 

Screenshot_20210103-153359_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20210103-153343_Gallery.jpg

I refer you to my pictures above bruno .

Here is your answer .

the faster they go the less penetration  .

The expansion of that slug is seriously impressive,  that's going to make a mess when it hits a squirrel.

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I like experimenting and trying different ammo, its an interesting part of shooting for me. so I've just ordered 100 slugs to put through my 12ftlb s410f. the weight and lower speed will be offset a bit by the high b.c. I'm hoping for better resistance to side winds. I did see a video ages ago where jsb were at a show and mentioned slugs made of tin. A 4.5mm slug around 9 or 10 grains would be very interesting for 12ftlb guns

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16 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Is that 13 and 16 grn 

Or 13 to 16 grn ?

Test ones at the moment are 13 and 16 gr  , but H&N haven’t finalised which ones are coming out yet 

H&N also have come out with 18 gr pellet .22

Edited by villaman
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11 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

would prefer a 10 or 11 grn slug .and yes this is for fac .

Have you tried running JSB heavies or crossman magnums at the speeds you were doing the tests at? There the weight you want between 10-11 grn,  obviously not slugs though.

I thought I'd missed a squirrel yesterday because of the impact on the feeder but the heavy just went straight through, not sure how stable they would be though at high speed, it might give a good comparison though?

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Yeah I've tried them they are ok .but don't suit my barrel as well as the standard 8.44 s .

I'm also trying  to get away form heavy pellets that just pass right  through quarry .hence why I dont shoot heavy pellets in any of my guns .(for calibre ) 

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  • 2 months later...

Just a little update to this thread I tried these prohunter slugs in a very strong side wind yesterday l-r  .

For comparison we shot  13grn slugs at 800 fps

jsb exact at 980 fps ., jsb hades at900 fps and fx hybrids at 900 fps .

The  exact pellets top left .slugs top right 

Hybrids bottom left .hades bottom right 

As you can see the 46 fpe hybrids moved the least in the wind followed by the slowest .177 slugs .

Then the hades and finally the jsb exact although fastest and lightest .just srtung out in a line l-r .

Very impressed with these slugs In the wind  and at pretty slow speeds also .

Worth noting the prohunter slugs had easily the tightest group also .

Cheers 

Screenshot_20210315-173839_Gallery.jpg

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Shot in a very strong cross wind over an open field .

The point of the exercise  was to see how much wind these pellets and slugs took .

The range was 60 yds and yes these guns do shoot really right groups at that range in still conditions .

The circles are about 28 mm so you can easily judge that your self 

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Interesting and worthwhile exercise, thank you for posting @Ultrastu

Just a quick point regarding range, it is a curious contrast to the perception of use of an air gun at 60/75 yards to that of @Perazzishot’s shotgun at 72 yards. Neither of which tests were at live quarry, but in both threads live quarry are mentioned.

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7 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Interesting and worthwhile exercise, thank you for posting @Ultrastu

Just a quick point regarding range, it is a curious contrast to the perception of use of an air gun at 60/75 yards to that of @Perazzishot’s shotgun at 72 yards. Neither of which tests were at live quarry, but in both threads live quarry are mentioned.

Don't follow?

Stu is using an FAC airgun and experimenting,  how many people have tested at that range and posted the results?

What would have been really interesting would to have shot a 22 along side and see how they compared first hand with the cross wind, or your 25 Stu.

But I realise this was about the 177 slugs.

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Well my mate had his .25 cal .

And I my .177 .

There was a lot of other testing done (chrono and speed work ) before we finished with the wind test .

Maybe when the .177 is exactly where I want it  .

We will revisit the wind test with a whole host of guns, calibres  pellets and slugs .

I have to admit to expecting the 980 fps pellets to drift only a touch more than the 800 fps slugs (.177 ) thinking that speed would make up for some difference .

Well on the tests above .it would seem out of the 3 main factors.  Speed .weight and bc .the one that has the biggest bearing on wind drift is bc .

How the other 2 rank ? I'm not sure (I would guess speed beats weight .but I'd have to confirm it somehow ) 

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Stu, it makes a change to see real world results rather than just hear how folk shot a 2 1/4 inch group at 1000 yards at Bisley snap shooting with a 50 cal (I kid you not folks, I was once told this by the owner of a gunshop)

What it really shows is that before setting out to shoot live quarry with small kill zones a lot of folk should do a lot more practice and be far more honest with themselves about what their maximum humane range should be. 

Did you use a bench rest for the groups or was there a human error element? 

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We shot off an old fridge and sat on my work hop up .and were a bit buffeted by the wind .but it was all the same for the groups so a fair comparison  .

Thinking of how to test which has the greater influence  on wind drift .

Speed or weight .(as I drove home ) 

I would need to isolate the changing bc out of the equation .(bc is more a function of the weight of a pellet and much less so the speed ) so I need to choose 2 pellets one heavier than the other but both that have similar bc s in the same calibre .

That would be jsb exact 8.44 grn  bc 0.024 

Bisley magnum 10.5 grn  bc 0.024 

And shoot them at the same speed so say 800 fps that would be 12 fpe and 15 fpe 

Then compare jsb exact at 800 fps to a jsb exact shot at 900 fps which is 15 fpe .

So the energy increase is the same for both partys .up from 12 to  15 fpe . One only increasing speed ,one only increasing weight  , the bc remains constant  .

Though I wonder if this is fair ?  .as the bismag  is 20 % heavier than the jsb .

To get the same speed percentage  increase id have to increase the speed  from 800 to 1000 fps .which would be 19 fpe not 15 fpe .???? 

I feel keeping the energy the same is probably the way to go .?? 

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4 hours ago, Mice! said:

Don't follow?

Stu is using an FAC airgun and experimenting,  how many people have tested at that range and posted the results?

What would have been really interesting would to have shot a 22 along side and see how they compared first hand with the cross wind, or your 25 Stu.

But I realise this was about the 177 slugs.

I appreciate that it’s an FAC air rifle as the fl/lbs of energy was stated. And, as stated, I support the work to test at longer ranges and in a variety of conditions.  

My post was to raise a specific point, relevant to other threads over the last 6 months or so. It is not to cause issues but to try and mediate other discussions by comparison. 

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Someone testing slugs for H&N said they were due to release a sub12 .177 slug but have shelved it to make more pellets and fill the gap that jsb can't fill.

Also another couple of lads testing a UK 10.5 grain sub12 slug due to be released soon. 

It's the likes of H&N we need as they will be more wallet friendly than small companies offerings.

 

Edited by figgy
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