12g vs 20g

[wymberley]

38 minutes ago, chip000 said:

If you compare ‘true’ loads between the the gauges ie say 24gram no 6 in a 20 and 28 gram no 6 in a 12 of the same type of cartridge, it’s only the number of pellets that is different, not the ‘power’ so range is the same, speed is the same.
For example, if you only need 5 shot pellets to kill a pigeon then the 20g throws say 200 vs say 250 in a 12g. All shot bar the 5 that hit it end up on the floor. Of course you can up your lead load in a 20g but not sure why you’d want to.

Those numbers are just for illustration. IMHO if you put your shot in the right place any gauge will kill so if you want the lighter weight, fast handling of the 20g go for it but I personally don’t see the point of heavy loads in a 20g. 

You may prefer it to my next point 😂😉

Only if the 20 is choked to match the pellet count in the 12 pattern.

[Ultrastu]

I once as an experiment .loaded a .410 cartridge with 4.5mm lead shot .(i cant remember the pellet count but it would have been around 50 ) as opposed to the 170 pellets in the normal number 6 shot .

I was decoying crows and the no6 was dropping them fine up to around 30 yds a jd crossed in front of my hide at about 20 yds and I shot him with the 4.5 mm load (an easy shot and one that I dont miss easily ) 

The jd was obviously  hit and he flew on to a willow tree 50 yds away .where  he sat for 1 min and then dropped off his branch .

I walked over to retrieve him and he was stone dead .he had blead out .the area under the tree was covered ive never see the likes of it before or since .I presume that he was hit by a single pellet that passed right through making a big hole .

If I'd hit the bird with 10 no 7 pellets say he would have been dead in the air  no doubt .

That one 4.5 mm pellet probably carried more energy than 10  2.3 mm pellets combined .

Its was after that I realised that its not energy that kills or drops a bird but number of pellet strikes over whelming the bird that kills him .

 

[chip000]

21 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Only if the 20 is choked to match the pellet count in the 12 pattern.

That was my point. A ‘true’ 20g load vs an equivalent ‘true’ 12g load. The only thing the 12 has more of is the no of pellets. 

[Ultrastu]

As has been said millions of time before by many experienced shooters 

Its pattern that kills this is why I'm such an advocate  of patterning you gun / cart at different ranges .if the patten opens up too much at longer ranges then you have to reduce the range at which you shoot at birds .or play with choke/cart  combinations  till you find one that works with the extended range your shooting at .

Obviously  more pellets in the air could mean more pellet density at said range but that would need to be confirmed on paper and not just presumed .

[chip000]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Are you meaning the good old fashioned "square" loads?

And as you say, nothing to be gained from taking a 20 bore and putting 12 gauge loads through it.

 

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Are you meaning the good old fashioned "square" loads?

And as you say, nothing to be gained from taking a 20 bore and putting 12 gauge loads through it.

Yes, of course you can put big loads in a 20 and small loads in a 12 but if you are trying to compare one with the other compare apples with apples, so to speak. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Johnny English]

I picked up one of the new miroku mkgame before Christmas in 32" 20 gauge. Its a fantastic gun, weighs about 7lb 5oz and handles like a dream. Weighs just enough to be very comfortable to shoot, but light enough to carry. Miroku have made some very nice subtle changes to these with the chokes, bead, ribs, butt pad and forend which add up to a big improvement. Swings and balances very nicely as well.

Not had much chance to try an array of cartridges yet but it handles 28 and 30 grams game carts with ease. Looking forward to using it some more this year when we get the chance.

[Bobba]

On 11/02/2021 at 18:27, chip000 said:

That was my point. A ‘true’ 20g load vs an equivalent ‘true’ 12g load. The only thing the 12 has more of is the no of pellets. 

As I have little knowledge on cartridge construction so could somebody help me out please on the above? 

My limited understanding suggests to me that if you have a 28gram 6 shot cartridge then it contains 28 grams of lead shot sized 6. It seems to me therefore that if a 20 bore cartridge and 12 bore cartridge are each described as 28 gram 6 shot then they will both have the same amount of lead shot i.e 28 grams of size 6 lead pellets. So, how can an equivalent 12 bore cartridge have more pellets than the 20 bore? Thanks.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Not sure about the use of the word "true" the old term was a "square" load, as deep as it was wide.

[welshwarrior]

As Tightchoke says I think chip means a square load not a true load.  
 

One point not mentioned that get more relevant as the load weight increases is that for example a 32g load of 5s in 20 bore has to run at a lower velocity than on a 12 bore to prevent over pressure. 

[chip000]

2 hours ago, welshwarrior said:

As Tightchoke says I think chip means a square load not a true load.  
 

One point not mentioned that get more relevant as the load weight increases is that for example a 32g load of 5s in 20 bore has to run at a lower velocity than on a 12 bore to prevent over pressure. 

Man, I didn’t intend for my answer to be taken so forensically. Here’s an analogy;

If you want a standard 2 litre Ford Focus  with 200 bhp you can buy one. You can also choose to buy a standard 1.5 litre Ford Fiesta with 150 bhp. You could spend money to get it mapped, a bigger turbo etc to make 200bhp, so it goes like a 200bhp Focus. 
However, if you bought the 200bhp Focus you can get that mapped too and put a bigger turbo on it to make 250 bhp. 

But if you wanted the Fiesta because it’s smaller, lighter and more agile then buy it. If you wanted the Focus because it has a bit more room and grunt buy that instead. 

Either one of them can be modified. Can we stop now?

 

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Not sure about the use of the word "true" the old term was a "square" load, as deep as it was wide.

I thought that the "old term" described the same volume of powder as shot back in the day.

[Guest cookoff013]

Those italians love shooting small birds.

24" 20gauge on a small frame is beyond perfect.

[sabel25]

On 10/02/2021 at 13:05, mgsontour said:

I've never shot a 20bore before and am interested to hear the differences/benefits from someone who shoots both? Cheers

Hi I shoot all three  20,16 and 12 For walked up days the 20 or 16 are great You carry more smaller cartridges. All depends what quarry you wish to take down. I was at a shoot taking very high duck and pheasant using a 12g Then i took the 16g on a couple of drives and took realy long birds down . Even a picker up did not believe i was using 28g in a 16g. They all shoot the same but the smaller bore patterns better

[mgsontour]

11 hours ago, sabel25 said:

Hi I shoot all three  20,16 and 12 For walked up days the 20 or 16 are great You carry more smaller cartridges. All depends what quarry you wish to take down. I was at a shoot taking very high duck and pheasant using a 12g Then i took the 16g on a couple of drives and took realy long birds down . Even a picker up did not believe i was using 28g in a 16g. They all shoot the same but the smaller bore patterns better

Thanks and real life situations like that are proof in my eyes