oscarsdad Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I'm disgusted at some of the vile fools and the posts against this national hero. But at the same time I believe they must be allowed to say offensive things, and others must be allowed to reply,without people being prosecuted, it is after all part of what people like Sir Tom fought and died for. I agree but it isn’t the case and isn’t universal....criticise Britain - that’s ok....criticise a religion which has thousands of very violent looney followers...not ok...everything should be fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 30 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I'm disgusted at some of the vile fools and the posts against this national hero. But at the same time I believe they must be allowed to say offensive things, and others must be allowed to reply,without people being prosecuted, it is after all part of what people like Sir Tom fought and died for. exactly being unable to say or do anything not pc is a insult to the many who made the ultimate sacrifice we have sorely short changed them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 58 minutes ago, oscarsdad said: I agree but it isn’t the case and isn’t universal....criticise Britain - that’s ok....criticise a religion which has thousands of very violent looney followers...not ok...everything should be fair game. agreed. 29 minutes ago, clangerman said: exactly being unable to say or do anything not pc is a insult to the many who made the ultimate sacrifice we have sorely short changed them Also agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Talking of offensive. Ruth Tingay! Check out what she been posting about us/ sm on her RPUK (funded by Lush) Blog. Along with a very strange/disturbing music video (funded by them i bet) defo aimed at us. Scuse pun. NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 trolls are ten a penny worth nout criticise others achievements and yet do nothing themselves stood to toe toe would **** themselves in awe of a true gent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Free speech was a given when it was just that free SPEECH. when you had to stand on a soapbox in the street and announce your thoughts, or arrange a meeting or whatever. Not anonymous. As others have said, it’s only the anonymity that makes most of these losers even did what they do. If the government/internet providers/social media etc made it easy to quickly identify online users, then people wouldn’t post such things. its dangerous though, years back a paediatrician had her house attacked because idiots thought it said paedophile. And all you need to do is post a video of animal cruelty and pick an address to attach it to and they will be attacked. So publishing details of trolls could lead to all sorts of trouble. So do you publish details, or prosecute them. Or so nothing.... personally id publish the details... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 It’s all just the green eyed monster at play. We see it in everyday life, everyday. There are those who simply don’t like to see others doing well, getting on in life, being successful or generating wealth and or happiness for themselves, or simply being handed good fortune and opportunity......unless it’s being handed out to them. It’s why some women relish a papped shot of a bit of cellulite on Kelly Brooks’ thigh, or some cheer when a wealthy sportsman like Tiger Woods fails a breathalyser, has marital problems, or indeed, crashes his car. That young lass from Little Mix knows all about this. The comments and opinions of such people aren’t worthy of even being read, and as unpleasant as they are, should be tret as such, common or garden jealousy. It can bring out the scum in people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, southeastpete said: its dangerous though, years back a paediatrician had her house attacked because idiots thought it said paedophile. And all you need to do is post a video of animal cruelty and pick an address to attach it to and they will be attacked. You appear to be conflating free speech with physical attacks as a result of 'doxxing' People who engage in trolling of the nasty variety hide behind anonymity, sure, but that they don't take it from the online world to the real world, where it actually matters. Anonymity is important; just ask any proper investigative journalist. Attempting to take that away on the grounds that some people say nasty words is not a justification at all in my book. 1 hour ago, southeastpete said: So publishing details of trolls could lead to all sorts of trouble. So do you publish details, or prosecute them. Or so nothing... The last option. 'Details' are published, when your case gets to court! In any case, we don't have free speech in this country... And before you say the police have withdrawn the ad and apologised, how many people within the police saw and signed off on it, before the p/o to hire an Ad van was raised? Imagine all the hoops you'd have to jump through, and not one person questioned it?? Hell and hand carts spring to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said: You appear to be conflating free speech with physical attacks as a result of 'doxxing' People who engage in trolling of the nasty variety hide behind anonymity, sure, but that they don't take it from the online world to the real world, where it actually matters. Anonymity is important; just ask any proper investigative journalist. Attempting to take that away on the grounds that some people say nasty words is not a justification at all in my book. I didn’t confuse anything, I was pointing out what could happen if trolls details were published. Just ask any of the many people who have taken their lives as a result of online bullying if it only matters in the real world. why would an investigative journalists opinion matter more than anyone else’s? It may not be in your book. But would it be if for months or years there were people online calling for you to be killed, your kids raped, if you lost your job due to malicious lies online, or had social services coming to your house because people had told them you abuse your kids etc etc etc. its not often just left at ‘your a w*****’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, southeastpete said: I didn’t confuse anything, I was pointing out what could happen if trolls details were published. You most certainly did - you went straight from trolling to doxxing to physical attacks. Only trolling was being discussed here. The other 2 are criminal offences the first possibly is - but shouldn't be. 5 minutes ago, southeastpete said: Just ask any of the many people who have taken their lives as a result of online bullying if it only matters in the real world. Bullying is not nice, but whether it's online or not is, frankly irrelevant. 5 minutes ago, southeastpete said: why would an investigative journalists opinion matter more than anyone else’s? Because they have more insight than you as to why anonymity is important! 6 minutes ago, southeastpete said: It may not be in your book. But would it be if for months or years there were people online calling for you to be killed, your kids raped, if you lost your job due to malicious lies online, or had social services coming to your house because people had told them you abuse your kids etc etc etc. Once again, you're conflating trolling with making malicious allegations of criminal behaviour, itself an offence. 7 minutes ago, southeastpete said: its not often just left at ‘your a w*****’ Block them, do not engage. And it's "you're" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Just treat them with the importance they deserve, which is none. Just ignore them and alow their hate to eat them up. Free speach should never be stopped, even when offensive. As long as it's not calling for genuine violence or aimed to put others in fear it should be allowed,with an equal right to reply and disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said: You most certainly did - you went straight from trolling to doxxing to physical attacks. Only trolling was being discussed here. The other 2 are criminal offences the first possibly is - but shouldn't be. Bullying is not nice, but whether it's online or not is, frankly irrelevant. Because they have more insight than you as to why anonymity is important! Once again, you're conflating trolling with making malicious allegations of criminal behaviour, itself an offence. Block them, do not engage. And it's "you're" Yea I don’t think you understand at all, oh well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, southeastpete said: Yea I don’t think you understand at all, oh well I do understand; you're making massive logical leaps that trolls will invariably move to criminal activities. 99% of the time, they really don't. The 1% of the time they do, they can be convicted for existing offences. We do not need yet more badly thought out laws As for anonymity, Southeastpete is anonymous. Why would you want to do that? 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: Just treat them with the importance they deserve, which is none. Just ignore them and alow their hate to eat them up. Free speach should never be stopped, even when offensive. As long as it's not calling for genuine violence or aimed to put others in fear it should be allowed,with an equal right to reply and disagree. The right idea. Though, small point, what is 'put others in fear'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: I do understand; you're making massive logical leaps that trolls will invariably move to criminal activities. 99% of the time, they really don't. The 1% of the time they do, they can be convicted for existing offences. We do not need yet more badly thought out laws As for anonymity, Southeastpete is anonymous. Why would you want to do that? The right idea. Though, small point, what is 'put others in fear'? No, you made that leap. I was first saying if a trolls information was put out, OTHERS may then seek the troll out to administer vigilante justice TO the troll. And after, saying that trolls can affect people’s jobs and home lives, is certainly also true. Its also true that trolling can cause people to end their lives. But you go on thinking it doesn’t matter. Same as the outdated, sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me. What a load of dangly round things. It’s far easier to heal a bruise or broken bone than the emotional and mental damage trolling can do. and my user name is a lot less anonymous than yours. And it’s anonymous because this is a shooting page where we admit we have guns. I’m not on here on a daily/weekly basis trolling another member am I? My Facebook page isnt anonymous and that’s the only social media I use. I have no problem not being anonymous if I feel the need to call someone out like recently a cowboy builder. And I would also contest that a victim of consistent trolling might have a different view on anonymity to an investigative journalist. I wonder if there are more troll victims, or more investigative journalists. I wonder which is more important, people being able to live their lives without harassment bullying etc online, or a couple of newspaper articles? And anyway it’s a completely different kind of anonymity. If a Twitter account is consistently trolling, and the anonymity is therefore stripped away versus an informant to a newspaper. Worlds apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, southeastpete said: No, you made that leap. I was first saying if a trolls information was put out, OTHERS may then seek the troll out to administer vigilante justice TO the troll. You raised the idea, literally nobody else was was advocating for it. And you seemed to have provided enough evidence, on your own, as to why it's a bad idea, viz. Dictionary-starved mobs in Portsmouth attacking paediatricians... 24 minutes ago, southeastpete said: And after, saying that trolls can affect people’s jobs and home lives, is certainly also true. That is not trolling! Trolling is saying nasty things to get a rise out of people. What you're talking about is making malicious allegations. Not only criminal behaviour, but well outside the scope of trolling. Seriously, stop conflating trolling, online bullying, making malicious allegations, and vigilante mobs administering their flavour of justice. It may be all one thing in your head, but it really isn't the case. 24 minutes ago, southeastpete said: And it’s anonymous because... Oh, so you have anonymity online for reasons you deem sound. Yet you seem to be advocating denying it for others? Who are you to judge if someone else's reasons are sound? 24 minutes ago, southeastpete said: I wonder if there are more troll victims, or more investigative journalists. I wonder which is more important, people being able to live their lives without harassment bullying etc online, or a couple of newspaper articles? You're not....serious surely? Firstly, block it the perpatrators, turn off the internet, go outside and do something less boring instead. Secondly, do I really have to point out the very real and serious things that have been uncovered as a result of anonymous whistleblowers being able to approach journalists? And you're asking which is more important? Not even close. Union Carbide, Watergate, Grenfell, Asian grooming gangs...the list goes on and on... 24 minutes ago, southeastpete said: And anyway it’s a completely different kind of anonymity. If a Twitter account is consistently trolling, and the anonymity is therefore stripped away versus an informant to a newspaper. Worlds apart. You seem to forget that it is all subject to the same legislation, and the law of unintended consequences applies. Legislate for one, you will impact the other. Twitter is a massive irrelevance to most people, and Facebook is going that way too, thankfully. I deleted facebook years ago, when I finally realised that I was the product being sold, and not the customer Edited February 25, 2021 by udderlyoffroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 25 minutes ago, southeastpete said: Its also true that trolling can cause people to end their lives. But you go on thinking it doesn’t matter. Same as the outdated, sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me. What a load of dangly round things. Never did I say it doesn't matter, and I'll thank you not to tell me what I think. How the hell could you possibly know? And if you want to live in a free society, you need to be prepared to hear things that upset you. 27 minutes ago, southeastpete said: It’s far easier to heal a bruise or broken bone than the emotional and mental damage trolling can do. Thanks but I'd rather the police concentrated on physical acts against me, and not nasty words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: I do understand; you're making massive logical leaps that trolls will invariably move to criminal activities. 99% of the time, they really don't. The 1% of the time they do, they can be convicted for existing offences. We do not need yet more badly thought out laws As for anonymity, Southeastpete is anonymous. Why would you want to do that? The right idea. Though, small point, what is 'put others in fear'? When I say put others in fear, I mean making threats to kill ect, which is already covered as a specific offence anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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