Getting started with Black Powder Revolvers

[bev6345]

I've made this video about the basic kit for Black Powder Revolvers, hope it helps anyone starting out.

 

 

[enfieldspares]

A tip. You'll often find that tapping your mould blocks BEFORE you open them helps the bullets drop and/or tapping the pivot on the handles. Lee aluminium moulds also drop better for those others watching the video if you lightly "soot" using a candle the cavities.

I'm also a bit puzzled why the metal hasp on the wooden black powder box isn't thought as a risk of becoming a projectile if the powder inside the box were to explode? Thank you for posting the video. I enjoyed watching it very much.

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Mr.C]

As someone hoping to start REALLY soon I shall watch this.

[swan40]

very good love to have a go,  keep it up and very well explained

[yeet]

I honestly had no interest in black powder stuff before this video but now I'm considering it, many thanks for the video

[Imperfection]

I had a chain fire many years ago with a Remington 44. Two rounds went off at same time despite buttering the front of balls with grease to prevent a flash over.

I fired the remaining shots in cylinder and got rid of the pistol. 

[bev6345]

4 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

I'm also a bit puzzled why the metal hasp on the wooden black powder box isn't thought as a risk of becoming a projectile if the powder inside the box were to explode? Thank you for posting the video. I enjoyed watching it very much.

its a bit of a balancing act, the risk of theft vs the risk of harm. the box being wood would mean it wouldn't be able to build up the same pressure as if it was metal.

2 hours ago, yeet said:

I honestly had no interest in black powder stuff before this video but now I'm considering it, many thanks for the video

that was what i hoped this video would do, they are so much fun.

1 hour ago, Imperfection said:

I had a chain fire many years ago with a Remington 44. Two rounds went off at same time despite buttering the front of balls with grease to prevent a flash over.

I fired the remaining shots in cylinder and got rid of the pistol. 

any damage to you or the gun?

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Imperfection said:

I had a chain fire many years ago with a Remington 44. Two rounds went off at same time despite buttering the front of balls with grease to prevent a flash over.

I fired the remaining shots in cylinder and got rid of the pistol. 

Balls not tight enough. back in the day the only place you'd grease a cap and ball revolver would be over the top of the nipples and then only to waterproof that area if expecting rain. The guys only either used tight fitting balls so a ring of lead was shaved off when seating the ball, a "bullet" with lube grooves ditto, or a the best practice was a felt wad between ball (or bullet) and powder. Grease in the front of the cylinder holds grains of powder from subsequent loadings and encourages flashover. It's a nonsense invented in modern times. It wasn't done "back in the day".

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[enfieldspares]

Blackpowder is the best of all the stuff available...Triple 7 or Pyrodex P are poor alternatives. Black cleans more easily, causes less fouling, doesn't smell of rotten eggs. And all in all is less likely to cause rusting if cleaned correctly. But tight fitting balls are a must and that means you want a gun that has the chambers all machined to the same diameter! Pure lead...always...and for the best accuracy of your budget allows swaged balls rather than cast balls. Best of the "modern" revolvers but in the old style were reputedly the Belgian made "Centaur" 1960s/1970s replicas of the 1860 Army marketed as the "1860 Centennial". I found the modern "authentic Colt" 1970s guns poor as the metal seemed soft. They were beautifully finished. Almost sublime in that. But as working guns they disappointed.

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Windswept]

I've never heard grease at the front increases the risk of flash over. The instructions tend to tell you to grease the front of the cylinder and I'm sure that's what was normally done. That's what most people I know do and I've never seen a flash over in 1,000s of shots.

I agree the balls need to shave a ring of lead for a good seal. I also gather that there is a risk of flash over from the percussion caps, especially as some people suggest you should squeeze them first. (You should never squeeze them, if they fall off you are either using the wrong size caps, you've not pushed them on hard enough or the nipples are too clean.)

I also thought 777 cleans the best and is less corrosive than Pyrodex or black?

[enfieldspares]

15 minutes ago, Windswept said:

I've never heard grease at the front increases the risk of flash over. The instructions tend to tell you to grease the front of the cylinder and I'm sure that's what was normally done.

Look at contemporary sources. In America it gets hot in Summer. It's a continental land mass. Carrying a pot of grease would be a messy proposition and where would that grease be sourced from? I'd guess that in the 1860s it'd be tallow? I can't see someone who'd have to carry it or carry it on their horse sacrificing a half pound extra of powder, balls or drinking water for the sake of carrying half a pound of grease.

British sources referencing the Adams and similar Webley in the Crimea or India and etc. also don't AFAIR mention grease over the front of the cylinder.

Again the same in India. Where's apparently "it ain't half hot". Weight is weight and simply you wouldn't waste a half pound on carrying grease when in a skirmish you'd likely not anyway have the luxury of time to get out you tin of grease and then grease each chamber (with what by then might be a near semi liquid) once you'd reloaded.

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[enfieldspares]

In the exquisite baize lined British revolver cased sets there's compartments for bullets, wads, moulds, rammers, turnscrews, nipple keys and in the deluxe cased sets near even the kitchen sink. But where ever is the compartment for the pot of grease? It's not there. Because it wasn't ever done that way.

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Windswept]

You wouldn't need that much grease and if you mix fat and wax it can tolerate heat well. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't often used though as the risk of flash over would be less than getting shot. However, modern guns do use it. Here's the bit from my manual

Quote

Fill the remaining portion of each loaded chamber with grease. Suitable products are natural lube, water pump grease or vegetable fat like crisco.This not only helps form a gas seal when the ball enters the barrel, but also prevents chain firing of all chambers at once, and aids in cleaning

 

[enfieldspares]

Here's a poor cut and paste from the 'net. Deane's instructions:

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[enfieldspares]

Colt's instructions OTOH advise a wad over the top of the loaded ball.

Quote

DIRECTIONS FOR LOADING COLT’S PISTOLS

First explode a cap on each nipple to clear them from oil and dust, then draw back the hammer to half-cock, which allows the cylinder to be rotated. A charge of powder is then placed in one of the chambers, keeping the barrel up, and a ball with the pointed end upwards, washcut wadding or patch, is put in the mouth of the chamber, turned under the rammer, and forced down with the lever below the surface of the cylinder, so that it can not binder in rotation. (care should be used when ramming down the ball not to shake out the powder from the chamber thereby reducing the charge). This is repeated until all the chambers are loaded. Percussion-caps are then placed on the nipples on the right of the lock-frame. When by drawing back the hammer to the full-cock, the arm is in condition for a discharge by pulling the trigger; a repetition of the same motion produces the like results with six shots without reloading.

NiB-It will be safe to use all the Powder the chambers will hold, when loading with the flask, leaving room for the Ball weather the Powder is strong or weak. Fine grain Powder is the best. Soft lead must be used for the balls. The cylinder is not to be taken off when loading. The hammer, when at full cock, forms the height by which aim is taken.
To carry the arm safely when loaded, let down the hammer on one of the pins between each nipple, on the end of the cylinder
>The arm should be thoroughly cleaned and oiled after firing, particularly the home pin in which the cylinder turns.

DIRECTIONS FOR LOADING WITH COLTS FOIL CARTRIDGE

Strip the white case off the Cartridge, by holding the bullet end and tearing it down with the black tape. Place the Cartridge in the mouth of the chamber of the cylinder, with the pointed end of the bullet uppermost, one at a time, and turns them under the rammer, forcing them down with the lever below the surface of the cylinder, so they can not hinder the rotation.
To ensure certainty of ignition, it is advisable to puncture the end of the Cartridge so that a small portion of gunpowder may escape into the chamber while loading the pistol.

DIRECTIONS FOR CLEANING

Set the lock at half cock, drive out the key that holds the barrel and cylinder to the lock frame, then draw off the barrel and cylinder, by bringing down the lever and forcing the rammer on the portion between the chambers. Take out the nipples. Wash the cylinder and barrel in warm water, dry and oil them thoroughly; oil freely the base pin on which the cylinder revolves.

TO TAKE THE LOCK TO PIECES, CLEAN AND OIL

First-Remove the stock, by turning out bottom and two rear screws that fasten it to guard and lock-frame near hammer
Second-Loosen the screw that fastens mainspring to the trigger-guard, and turn spring from under tumbler of the hammer
Third-Remove the trigger-guard, by turning out the three screws that fasten it to the lock-frame
Fourth-Turn out the screw, and remove the double screw spring that bears upon the trigger and bolt.
Fifth- Turn out the screw pin that hold the trigger and bolt in their place.
Sixth- Turn out the remaining screw pin and remove the hammer with hand attached by drawing it downwards out of the lock frame. Clean all the parts and oil them thoroughly.
TO PUT THEM TOGETHER-Replace the hammer with the hand spring attached, then the bolts, then trigger, the screw spring, the trigger guard, the mainspring, and finally the handle: returning each screw to its proper place, the arm is again in for use.

 

[enfieldspares]

Here's however a different set of Colt's instructions (it enlarges quite well if you visit the actual webpage) where it specifically advises "without wadding or patch":

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23256/lot/195/

Edited March 3, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Centrepin]

I subscribed to his channel.

I've always had a hankering for a black powder revolver but after watching realised there's so much I have to learn before buying. 

[bev6345]

31 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

I subscribed to his channel.

I've always had a hankering for a black powder revolver but after watching realised there's so much I have to learn before buying. 

thanks for the sub, don't be put off they are worth the investment in knowledge, ill have some more videos out as soon as i can get on the range but if you want to go into detail i would recommend the Lyman black powder handbook and its got all the load data in the back. https://www.cdsgltd.co.uk/lyman-blackpowder-handbook-2nd-edition.html.

[Imperfection]

21 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Balls not tight enough. 

The only thing i may have done wrong was inserting one of the balls into cylinder with the tiny moulding pip going into side so it didn't quite seal as needed. I lost all confidence in the pistol in an instance and got an Alpha 38/357 revolver instead.

I still like the whole smell & atmosphere you get with black powder though.

21 hours ago, bev6345 said:

any damage to you or the gun?

The gun was fine-apart from a scratch on side where the second ball left the cylinder. No damage to me too which is a bonus!

[Modafinale]

On our pistol range, two of us went one afternoon 20 years ago.

My friend was shooting his .22rf pistol I was observing, in my boredom I started reading notices and also noticed 2” hole through the shed side. Went to the the other side of the shed and a slightly smaller hole with something inside.

I extracted the interesting piece of metal to discover it was 1/3 of a pistol chamber, so we came to the conclusion it was a blowup but to this day not one club member has owed up to the explosion 💥 he must have been alone as if anyone else had been shooting either side of the blowup a piece of chamber would have hit them or the firearm they where using 

[Rewulf]

On 03/03/2021 at 20:57, Windswept said:

You wouldn't need that much grease and if you mix fat and wax it can tolerate heat well. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't often used though as the risk of flash over would be less than getting shot. However, modern guns do use it. Here's the bit from my manual

There was a bloke used to swear by duck fat, used to be dripping off his hands by the time he was finished, stunk too 

Personally Ive tried it both ways , and enfield is correct , it isnt how it was done , and does not prevent chain fires.
The advantage is , after your gun and barrel has a liberal soaking of grease , its easier to clean.

[Windswept]

I wonder when the topping off with grease/lube first started then? I use my own home made beeswax and veg oil mix and quite like the smell. It can get messy and I've started to use a syringe which speeds up loading and keeps the mess down. I've shot 1,000s through mine without issue.

As for those starting out, I can recommend finding a club which has several people shooting them as you can get advice of what to buy, what to avoid and you can get to borrow equipment. Just remember to stand upwind if you're in a line of people shooting a rapid string of 6.

[Vince Green]

One thing I learned from living in America and associating with re-enactors. Plus visiting battlefields like Gettysburg and going round various museums was that they did not favour round balls. Almost universally the serious modern shooters / competitors used conical ball and when you see what was picked up off the battlefields it was nearly  all conical ball. Presumably loaded by paper cartridge.

I always used conical ball in my 1860 when I had it and I do believe it was more accurate. However, most black powder revolvers are very affected by powder charge if you want to get maximum accuracy you have to experiment a lot to fine tune the load. The most accurate load often used a much lighter charge than you might initially expect

Part of being a re-enactor in America is the taking part in live fire competitions and they take them very seriously. In fact they take it all very seriously. Its a near religious obsession to some of them. Every last detail has to be dead right

Original Pistol Bullet Recovered Cashtown (Gettysburg Campaign) | Gettysburg Museum Of History

 

Pistol Bullet From Gettysburg | Civil War Artifacts - For Sale in Gettysburg (uniondb.com)

 

Civil War Bullet Types - Pistol and Rifle (civilwartimeline.net)

 

Most original cap and ball revolvers have a ring of corrosion in each of the cylinders where the bullet sat. Obviously they were kept loaded for years and the grooves in the bullets were filled with tallow which attacked the metal. 

Even today pre made paper cartridges greatly cut loading time on the range. Especially because (as explained on the video) range regulations require you to use pre measured charges in fiddly plastic phials which is unbelievably fiddly. 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Vince Green