Howling at the moon or credible scenario? Mass law-breaking

[udderlyoffroad]

I'm still not sure what your point is @ordnance; the data is old, but since then more people have been vaccinated.  We are only heading in one direction towards herd immunity, even if we haven't already achieved it.

What would your trigger point be for lifting restrictions?

 

[Mice!]

On 05/06/2021 at 15:12, Scully said:

Getting back to normal around here thankfully. Was in the pub last night and although there was a cursory nod to restrictions with people wearing masks on entry, caution soon fell by the wayside and there was no thought given to social distancing. 

I think most have good intentions with spacing out early doors, but the more people come in the pub more they're squashed up like the good old days. Just the same outside. Long may it reign. Let's get back to normal and get on with living. 

Twas a good night and the craic was great. 🙂

I read this the other day and just shook my head, we all want normal but would you have done this in a town centre?

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/twelve-tellers-staff-test-positive-20764453

This is the third pub I've read about in the last few days where the staff have caught covid, so the idea of heard immunity doesn't stack up.

The other two pubs, Penwortham and Blackburn have said they will have to close for a period.

Lancashire and Manchester will be very lucky to see the final restrictions lifted at this rate.

[Pangolin]

 

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

I read this the other day and just shook my head, we all want normal but would you have done this in a town centre?

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/twelve-tellers-staff-test-positive-20764453

This is the third pub I've read about in the last few days where the staff have caught covid, so the idea of heard immunity doesn't stack up.

The other two pubs, Penwortham and Blackburn have said they will have to close for a period.

Lancashire and Manchester will be very lucky to see the final restrictions lifted at this rate.

Wow, 4 cases of people that probably felt under the weather for two days but stayed home for another 8. Just to be safe we best stay locked down and ruin more businesses and restrict more liberties.

Those outbreaks dont matter, they're not transforming into deaths and massive intensive care usage.

Stop treating this like its Ebola, treat it like a common cold and crack on.

What a joke.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Pangolin

[Pangolin]

See this attitude far too often, shocking.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Pangolin

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

I read this the other day and just shook my head, we all want normal but would you have done this in a town centre?

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/twelve-tellers-staff-test-positive-20764453

This is the third pub I've read about in the last few days where the staff have caught covid, so the idea of heard immunity doesn't stack up.

The other two pubs, Penwortham and Blackburn have said they will have to close for a period.

Lancashire and Manchester will be very lucky to see the final restrictions lifted at this rate.

Yes. The people I’m mixing with in our local pub are here on holiday, some retired some not. 
They have caravans and holiday homes, chalets IN our village; they come up of a Friday afternoon and stay til Sunday, continually throughout summer from around Easter until the site closes in about September. When they’re not here they’re back home in ( mostly ) Newcastle, working, socialising, babysitting for their working kids and generally getting on with their lives. Apart from Newcastle they come from Durham, Liverpool, the Wirral and who knows where else? 
Most are double jabbed and are socialising with all the others, including locals, and we’re just getting in with our lives.

I have been working at an 82 year old lady’s house this week; she is fit and very able and has been socialising with friends all over Cumbria as she still drives. She is utterly utterly sick and tired of all this Covid ‘nonsense’  and said it was very refreshing to find only one person ( a young waitress ) wearing a mask at a rural pub she visited with a friend at the weekend.

People seem to be under the impression that this jab means we won’t get Covid, which is ridiculous; we will. The vaccine simply means we now have an increased chance of surviving it, that’s all. Meanwhile we get back to work and get back to living. 
The country has too many idiots like the dr or whatever he is in the video posted by Pangolin, who believe we should stay in lockdown until the virus is no more. It will never be ‘no more’; it’s  here and it’s here to stay. 
Stay at home if you want, but don’t demand the rest of us to do likewise. I have a living to make and a life to live. 

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

This is the third pub I've read about in the last few days where the staff have caught covid, so the idea of heard immunity doesn't stack up.

What?  Why on earth doesn't it 'stack up'? It's the basis for national policy in pretty much every country around the globe.

Do you mean we haven't reached it yet, on the basis that some people - who work in a pub, are therefore likely below the age of thirty so haven't been offered a jab yet - tested positive?

Something that can happen even after a vaccine?

I think it's all fairly desperate frankly - any excuse to keep restrictions in place.  I urge anyone in favour of restrictions to take a long hard look at themselves, and think what is really motivating them to continue as we are.

Surely by now even the most ardent lockdown supporter can acknowledge that it comes with costs - people are dying of otherwise treatable cancers forgawdsake.

All to prevent what?  More people died in traffic accidents this week than 'with/of' COVID.

Anyone still in favour of continuing this madness is either willfully not engaging with the reality, suffers from some other form of cognitive dissonance, or is breathtakingly selfish (I'm alright Jack, screw everyone else).

[Lord v]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Meanwhile we get back to work and get back to living. 
The country has too many idiots like the dr or whatever he is in the video posted by Pangolin, who believe we should stay in lockdown until the virus is no more. It will never be ‘no more’; it’s  here and it’s here to stay. 
 

This last bit is important - and what has been very rarely spoken about - is what the 'end game' is.

This is highly unlikely to be a disease we can eradicate due to the incubation period and the transmissibility. This ultimately means that there will be people in hospital and dying from covid (or with covid)forever more. Its a case of finding a level we are comfortable with. With around 900 in hospital and deaths in the very low double digits 

25k people a year were dying of Pneumonia (with the North West being particularly high in numbers) prior to covid. 

If it gets to the point of say 15k people dying of Covid a year with no restrictions would 'we' be happy with that? Or indeed notice? (especially as the majority of those probably would have died of other respiratory diseases so those numbers would see a decline)  

I am just glad I'm not in Australia where they are happy to shut an entire state based on a single case. As has been said the vaccines don't stop you catching it so that response is unsustainable. Even if they all get vaccinated, they will see cases and deaths rise...  

In Cummings little chat the other day he was obsessed with saying that BoJo was more worried about deaths resulting from lockdown rather than covid like it was sort of bad thing. With the rise in hospital waiting times and the mental health issues bubbling away, rising number of children in care etc etc I suspect BoJo will be shown to be very correct. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Lord v

[Mice!]

11 hours ago, Pangolin said:

Wow, 4 cases of people that probably felt under the weather for two days but stayed home for another 8. Just to be safe we best stay locked down and ruin more businesses and restrict more liberties.

Did you read what I've said, three pubs closed because of covid, not 4 cases, things need to open up,  but cramming into the pub isn't clever. 

10 hours ago, Scully said:

People seem to be under the impression that this jab means we won’t get Covid, which is ridiculous; we will. The vaccine simply means we now have an increased chance of surviving it, that’s all. Meanwhile we get back to work and get back to living. 
The country has too many idiots like the dr or whatever he is in the video posted by Pangolin, who believe we should stay in lockdown until the virus is no more. It will never be ‘no more’; it’s  here and it’s here to stay. 
Stay at home if you want, but don’t demand the rest of us to do likewise. I have a living to make and a life to live. 

Well I'm glad you've said that about the Jab, it's been great seeing the old folk return to their caravans, all double jabbed and happy, we were out at Manchester museum last week, rugby this week, all getting back to normal,  but it's far from over, and in some areas it's still a problem. 

8 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

What?  Why on earth doesn't it 'stack up'? It's the basis for national policy in pretty much every country around the globe.

Do you mean we haven't reached it yet, on the basis that some people - who work in a pub, are therefore likely below the age of thirty so haven't been offered a jab yet - tested positive?

I'm saying we can't have reached herd immunity if three pubs had to close because of multiple cases, all shortly after they were allowed to have customers back inside. All within say twenty minutes drive of each other.

All of Lancashire (except Blackpool again) are now under different conditions now which won't or can't be enforced, only meet outside unless you live together?

I'm just hoping Lancashire isn't put into some sort of local lockdowns, but that needs people to be sensible and not just decide they have had enough. 

[Pangolin]

What I would say is that the 3 pubs shouldnt shut because of cases and we should carry on regardless.

[Mice!]

2 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

What I would say is that the 3 pubs shouldnt shut because of cases and we should carry on regardless.

Two of the pubs had to close because they didn't have enough staff to stay open after being contacted by track and trace.

[Pangolin]

Good reason not to have the app on your phone.

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

Good reason not to have the app on your phone.

Exactly. A friend came round for tea the other night. She has deleted the app because she was contacted via track and trace before last lockdown, and had to take several days off work. False alarm and lost income. 
My son at uni’ tells me a lot of mates whom are working, no longer have the app for the same reason. 

[Pangolin]

The obsession with case numbers and tracing is odd, its peddled everyday and no doubt will be used on Monday to extend the end date of restrictions despite the lack of deaths.

I hope there is uproar.

Does anybody want to play Boris Bingo on Monday to see what phrases are used?

Im going for these -

"Just a couple of more weeks to assess the data"

"We must take a cautious approach"

"Variants of concern"

"In this together"

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Pangolin

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

 

Well I'm glad you've said that about the Jab, it's been great seeing the old folk return to their caravans, all double jabbed and happy, we were out at Manchester museum last week, rugby this week, all getting back to normal,  but it's far from over, and in some areas it's still a problem. 

 

The jab is to prevent the NHS from being swamped, that was its entire purpose. 
It will never be over and will always be a problem, because it’s here to stay, just like the flu and various other bugs which we have learned to live with. 
I’ll be off to the pub again this Friday for a couple of hours, just like countless others. 

[Mice!]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19354865.pub-owner-asks-customers-patient-staff-close-breaking-point/

That's another one, with staff getting abuse from a minority because of low staff numbers, in the same general area.

58 minutes ago, Scully said:

The jab is to prevent the NHS from being swamped, that was its entire purpose. 
It will never be over and will always be a problem, because it’s here to stay, just like the flu and various other bugs which we have learned to live with. 
I’ll be off to the pub again this Friday for a couple of hours, just like countless others. 

The jab is to hopefully stop us being hospitalised if or when we get the virus, and I hope we do learn to live with it.

Enjoy the pub, but I certainly wouldn't be heading to one in east Lancashire. 

[12gauge82]

You could die in a car crash, but do we stop driving cars, no, you mitigate the danger to an exceptable level and carry on. That's exactly what we should do with Covid, the vulnerable have now had/been offered the vaccine, which mitigates the threat as best science knows how, now let's get on with it,and yes, that means people will die, just like they do in cars. 

[udderlyoffroad]

Back to my echo-chamber thread of people agreeing with me 😁

Let's assume for a minute the inevitable does happen and restrictions aren't relaxed in July either.  I think you'd have to be naive, based on past performance, to think that the government genuinely will lift all restrictions in July.

I don't follow football, but apparently the  'Euros' final was due to be held in Wembley (why?  They forgot to build any transport infrastructure) - and the government is currently negotiating with UEFA and FIFA to exempt 2500 VIPs (how many?) from quarantine.  If they don't get their way, they'll move it to Budapest*.   This is due to be held on July 11th.

Might this, finally, be the straw that breaks the camel's back?  Will the thus-far compliant British finally say enough is enough when this "All animals are created equal..." mantra is paraded in the football?

Those pics of the G7 attendees all schmoozing close to each other, whilst the waiting staff looked on, distanced and masked up, certainly didn't help.

Might be cautious grounds for optimism anyway.

*Hungary has essentially adopted a vaccine passport system.  Easier pill for the Hungarian people to swallow than over here, compulsory carrying of ID and a 'papers please' mentality is far more ingrained there.  Comes of being part of the Soviet Satellite states for many years.

 

[Pangolin]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Back to my echo-chamber thread of people agreeing with me 😁

Let's assume for a minute the inevitable does happen and restrictions aren't relaxed in July either.  I think you'd have to be naive, based on past performance, to think that the government genuinely will lift all restrictions in July.

I don't follow football, but apparently the  'Euros' final was due to be held in Wembley (why?  They forgot to build any transport infrastructure) - and the government is currently negotiating with UEFA and FIFA to exempt 2500 VIPs (how many?) from quarantine.  If they don't get their way, they'll move it to Budapest*.   This is due to be held on July 11th.

Might this, finally, be the straw that breaks the camel's back?  Will the thus-far compliant British finally say enough is enough when this "All animals are created equal..." mantra is paraded in the football?

Those pics of the G7 attendees all schmoozing close to each other, whilst the waiting staff looked on, distanced and masked up, certainly didn't help.

Might be cautious grounds for optimism anyway.

*Hungary has essentially adopted a vaccine passport system.  Easier pill for the Hungarian people to swallow than over here, compulsory carrying of ID and a 'papers please' mentality is far more ingrained there.  Comes of being part of the Soviet Satellite states for many years.

 

They'll be ****ting it over the Euros. Allow no quarantine and show the public that their current restriction decisions really are just political and not health and data based or ruin a big game for many fans and face a nice big backlash.....I cant to see wait either way

[henry d]

On 09/06/2021 at 09:10, udderlyoffroad said:

...any excuse to keep restrictions in place.  I urge anyone in favour of restrictions to take a long hard look at themselves, and think what is really motivating them to continue as we are.

I favour some restrictions, but we are now entering a crucial period and frankly I really don't know what you are getting at, I presume that you mean the government when you say them, why would they unnecessarily want to keep the present restrictions in place?

[Mungler]

It’s nonsense and we should be back to normal by now.

Stats still show it’s a disease of age and the vaccine works.

People are frightened of their own shadows. From what I can see across my desk, suicides are definitely up and lockdown anxiety and mental health issues are off the scale.

[dead eye alan]

54 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It’s nonsense and we should be back to normal by now.

Stats still show it’s a disease of age and the vaccine works.

People are frightened of their own shadows. From what I can see across my desk, suicides are definitely up and lockdown anxiety and mental health issues are off the scale.

Spot on. Too much Too long And unnecessary restrictions and all for the wrong reasons! 

[udderlyoffroad]

On 18/06/2021 at 18:47, Pangolin said:

Allow no quarantine and show the public that their current restriction decisions really are just political and not health and data based

Telegraph is claiming this morning that Matt hopeless Hancock didn't share data (paywall but sign up for free trial) showing effectiveness of vaccine against the Indian variant at the meeting to decide whether to extend lockdowns.

I'm not angry I'm just disappointed.

As for the government's self-imposed impending Euros impasse, that doesn't seemed to have gained traction...yet.  Maybe it's just too soon.

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, henry d said:

I favour some restrictions, but we are now entering a crucial period

How many 'crucial' periods have we entered in the last 14months?  It will never end if left unchecked.

3 hours ago, henry d said:

frankly I really don't know what you are getting at, I presume that you mean the government when you say them, why would they unnecessarily want to keep the present restrictions in place?

I've made my view clear repeatedly; that anyone still in favour of restrictions is basically either suffering from some form of cognitive dissonance or are so mind-bendingly selfish that they whilst they and their family might be ok, thousands of people aren't, and are dying unnecessarily.

And that's before you get to the economic damage, and the damage to the development the current generation of children and teens.  Even students and apprentices, who currently should be having the time of their lives, are living in some digital purgatory.

[Pangolin]

25 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Telegraph is claiming this morning that Matt hopeless Hancock didn't share data (paywall but sign up for free trial) showing effectiveness of vaccine against the Indian variant at the meeting to decide whether to extend lockdowns.

I'm not angry I'm just disappointed.

As for the government's self-imposed impending Euros impasse, that doesn't seemed to have gained traction...yet.  Maybe it's just too soon.

I read the same thing in the Mail.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I've made my view clear repeatedly....

I'm sorry but short of trawling through pages of responses I'm still non the wiser, do you mean the government when you say them and why would they unnecessarily want to restrict us?