Hull .410

[Ultrastu]

Has anybody tried the .410 hull carts high pheasant 

Specifically the 18 grm no 6 FIBRE  wads 

I've shot the plas wad 19 grn loads and they kill very very well , I Wondered about the fibre version. They are supposed to be the same velocity 1400fps .

Walker ? 

 

 

[Taileron]

Yes, they are just as good as the 19grm loads. I usually get whatever is available and tbh I have not noticed a difference between them. What choke are you using? I was using 3/4 full but the patterns were horrible so I’m now 1/4 1/2 and have not noticed any difference hitting the rangey stuff.

[enfieldspares]

I've tried neither but from my way back when experience of .410s the lack of a plastic wad will leave the shot in contact with the barrels. This will especially at .410 pressures cause some degrading to the roundness of those pellets which will degrade the pattern. This will be aggravated by the fact that the shot column is longer so more pellets will be in contact. Therefore in truth I don't think they will be as good a pattern at the margins of the usual 30" circle at 40 yards. But proof is on paper so if you can shoot a half dozen individual patterns.

[Walker570]

Yes, used both versions and put them in the pattern and they work very well.  I am in possesion of a slab of Lylevale 3 inch which I tried a box of last season and they also work very well.  I am going to use these on two specific days this coming season partridge in Sept, traditional over the hedges as it should be and then a mixed day pheasant and partridge and may extend the test to a third day if I have any left(wishful thinking).

Regarding degrading of pellets that is a load of phooey. I normally load all my own shells with Folkestone fibre wads and my loads print a perfect 30 inch group at a measured 35yrds with very few if any fliers.   It is down to me to put the bird in the pattern.

[Ultrastu]

Thanks very much guys and walker good to know that there is little between the fibre and plas wads  .

I shoot a few different plas wad types some which have shot surrounding petals .others which are just a bung .and a mate has some eley fibre wads  .

On testing out of my full choke yildiz .there was no appreciable diffence in patten size between them .I'd expected the petal plas wads of the hulls to best the eley all fibre wads hands down  ,didn't seem the be the case  hence why I'm interested in trying the fibre hull carts   .

I also believe there must be some pellet scrubbing up the barrel and more so with an unprotected shot column .but maybe up to 30  yds it makes little difference  .

Also how much out of round can you make a 2.6 mm ball ? 

Maybe what I need to do is shoot some different carts into water to catch them and see if I can see any scrubbing evidence 

[turbo33]

2 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yes, used both versions and put them in the pattern and they work very well.  I am in possesion of a slab of Lylevale 3 inch which I tried a box of last season and they also work very well.  I am going to use these on two specific days this coming season partridge in Sept, traditional over the hedges as it should be and then a mixed day pheasant and partridge and may extend the test to a third day if I have any left(wishful thinking).

Regarding degrading of pellets that is a load of phooey. I normally load all my own shells with Folkestone fibre wads and my loads print a perfect 30 inch group at a measured 35yrds with very few if any fliers.   It is down to me to put the bird in the pattern.

Same experiences here👍

[Ultrastu]

Got my first chance to shoot some of the all fibre hull high pheasant  carts today .

Not a lot about ,  I sat over some barley which I'm a bit too early on .but I did get one nice shot on a crow  which folded stone dead in the air and dropped on the spot .I paced it out at exactly 50 yds .give an extra 5 for the elevation and I reckon I dropped him at 55 yds   not bad for an 18 grm load of no6 .

Guess that puts any doubts about the effectiveness of fibre wadded .410s to rest. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Ultrastu

[Agriv8]

Useful to know thanks for the info - my farm shop can get the 410 hull in for the right money for me but would need to by a full slab - which put me off as I would have liked to try a box or two before committing to 250 !.

Planning to be out lamping and ratting with my 410 tomorrow night just bodged up a torch holder for under the hush power. 
 

not accurate ( steady) enough with the air rifle to pick the rats off at far side of yard poss 30 40 yards but know the 410  get there ! 

ATB Agriv8 

[Walker570]

Shot quite a few of the Hull High Pheasant fibre in 6s and 7s and if you put the bird in the pattern it will be in serious trouble. I have some new 19g Lylevale, I had one box at the end of last season and they performed very well. I have a full slab now ready for next game seaon to open but might get a chance on some pigeons come harvest time.

[JohnfromUK]

On 11/05/2021 at 16:36, Walker570 said:

Regarding degrading of pellets that is a load of phooey.

Well, I haven't patterned my .410 (AyA s/s non ej with 1/2 and full chokes) ......... but it does lead terribly with higher loads (fibre wad) - and that lead has to come from somewhere.  Can't remember what the cartridges were as I was given them other than 3" (as I had to check the gun was 3").  It makes cleaning (properly) a very tedious process and I literally get little flakes of lead out of the bronze brush afterwards.

[Walker570]

I don't know enough about barrels but if yours are collecting lead like that then a visit to good gunsmith who could polish them out for you. Unless my Yildiz gets damp I rarely do more than put a 45 calibre bore snake through the bores and they gleam.  95% of all my shells I load myself and use Folkestone fibre wads.  The pull through has a hint of oil but I don't add further.   I probably go through a couple of thousand a year.

My thinking on the barrels is that there must be some abrasion there to collect thatmuch lead.

I suppose one way of finding out if pellets are degraded would be to fire a load into a plastic container full of water and examine the pellets afterwards.

[Agriv8]

Re the lead fowling ( I am sure one of the infinitely knowledge chaps will chip in) I suspect that’s more antimony of  pellets ( how hard ) that is the biggest factor

I would also think barrel shape and size will also affect lead fowling from personal experience my 725 has a lead fowling issue with fibre wads I put this down to forcing cone shape and length! Luckily still can use plas ward at my local ground and the 725 throws some good patterns with the teaque chokes !

Agriv8

[JohnfromUK]

30 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

then a visit to good gunsmith who could polish them out for you.

I haven't ever taken it to one, but we had the gun from new (it was my father's rat/squirrel garden gun) and it is very little used and the internal finish is 'as it left the factory' and certainly looks nicely 'shiny' (when eventually got clean!).  With the modest loads I normally use (and even that is very occasional) - it is a manageable problem.  I just avoid the heavier loads.  I note that the ones I use are Gamebore with 11g loads, and I think the others I have are 9g and 12.5g (Eley).  I would not myself have the confidence to use it on game, but I have seen others shoot game well with a .410.

 

32 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

I would also think barrel shape and size will also affect lead fowling from personal experience my 725 has a lead fowling issue with fibre wads I put this down to forcing cone shape and length!

Could be - as I say, it is an AyA, about 35 years old, 3" chambered, and 'as new' in that it has been in the family from new and always looked after, never altered and I doubt it has fire 500 cartridges in its life!  The leading is worst nearer the breech end (where the pressures are at their highest).

In my normal use 12g guns I always use a fibre wad (even for clays) but light (21g for clays, 26 or 28g for game) loads in a 12.

[Stonepark]

Biggest factor is rough bores, little to do with lead itself.

 

Polish bores until mirrors with Green Rouge polishing compound, clean and then burnish (polish but allow a bit of friction heat above 65C to build up) with WS2 (Tungsten Disulphide), after treatment, nothing should stick to the bores.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Stonepark said:

Polish bores until mirrors with Green Rouge polishing compound

What do you use to load the polishing compound on?  I have compound (various colours/grades inc I think green), but have not used it inside barrels.

[Stonepark]

Wool mop on cleaning rod in drill bit, let the drill do the work with long slow in and out strokes

Edited June 15, 2021 by Stonepark

[JohnfromUK]

15 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Wool mop

OK, thanks, I may give that a go.

[Walker570]

Hope it works for you because it sounds a nice little gun. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Walker570 said:

Hope it works for you because it sounds a nice little gun. 

It is quite a basic little boxlock non ejector, but soundly made in usual AyA no frills style.

Nicest .410 I ever handled - my late godfather (who was a very keen shot and collector) had a s/s Purdey .410 ejector - which he used to shoot rats!  I think it were only short chambered as I know he used light Eley "Fourten" cartridges.  I knew even less about guns then than I do now, but squeezing the complex self opening action with the single spring with inbuilt roller must have been difficult.  Very few were made.

I was in my early teens than and he had a fantastic collection many of which had come from his father who had bought them in the 1920s.  Over the years he gradually reduced the number.  He gave me my first gun - which I still have to this day.

[London Best]

JohnfromUK, get yourself a Tornado brush. Like a coiled spring they come in phosphor bronze and steel. Mine are the steel version but they cannot scratch your barrels. I have shot a fair lot with .410 guns and they do suffer from leading. Mine are old English from the turn of the 19/20 century and are 2 1/2 inch chambered. If the tornado brush doesn’t shift the leading in a stroke or two, dip the brush in paraffin. If you have difficulty obtaining a brush I got mine from Darren Hartshorn at Mid Counties Blacking at Lichfield. Hope this helps.

PS: Insanely jealous that your Godfather had a Purdey .410. I would have loved to have seen that.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Insanely jealous that your Godfather had a Purdey .410. I would have loved to have seen that.

He had some wonderful guns - mostly Purdey - and used (he was a very fine shot) a set of three (pair and single made to match numbered 1,2,3) featherweight Purdey's in 12 - through which he always shot Winchester GB 1 ounce.  Beautiful guns, they were stocked in exhibition grade wood and were (very occasionally) used as the full set of 3.  I have a feeling that the .410  was actually half a pair - I know he had a pair of .410s, but not 100% sure if they were different.  I believe at its peak, his collection numbered well into 3 figures.  The Manton I have came down through his family and he passed it to me when he gave up shooting.  As so often happens, his own sons had little interest in shooting, although the eldest does a little stalking I believe.

Sadly he is long gone (would be 99 I think if he was alive now) and the collection had diminished by the time I became interested.

I will have to look into a better brush and rod as the old brush is rather flat on one side and the (aluminium) rod has knackered threads!  I will look at Tornado.

[London Best]

Thanks for the reply. Winchester GB were a very good smooth shooting cartridge and I used thousands of them throughout the 1990’s through my lightweight Wiseman best box lock.

edit: the brushes are on Amazon at £11.71p.

I think mine was a fiver.

Edited June 15, 2021 by London Best